What do you want to see in the franchise

[bringingyouthefuture]

That is the thing with all video games endings, they are all totally anti-climatic ... I got annoyed with DOS2 because of the responses I got from Julius, it may have been a bug at the time but I tried multiple options, and he acted like I let him win in an instance where I clearly didn't.  It just really annoyed me they probably fixed it though.  I also got annoyed with some of the story stuff that seemed like bugs but is probably fixed to in regards to the ELF ladies quest - I kept getting these nonsensical responses from the elves ...

 

I think DOS2 had ambition in their ending when I think back on it, but it was poorly executed, maybe?  I haven't thought on it much at all, but I was more annoyed than awed at the whole thing.

 

Edit:  Okay thinking on it more - so you get setup with all these options in DOS2 right?  And not one of them sets up the story for anything more, I just Googled them to remember.  All of them were so extreme in their finality, I almost felt like none of them were earned.  DOS1 did a much better job with the ending, nicely tied up all the loose ends etc.  DOS2 in comparison is somewhat like a buffet of $20 dollar sensational options with little flavor to just have something there.  I don't know ... open to peoples thoughts.

Edited March 5, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[AlexDeLarge]

That is the thing with all video games endings, they are all totally anti-climatic ... I got annoyed with DOS2 because of the responses I got from Julius, it may have been a bug at the time but I tried multiple options, and he acted like I let him win in an instance where I clearly didn't.  It just really annoyed me they probably fixed it though.  I also got annoyed with some of the story stuff that seemed like bugs but is probably fixed to in regards to the ELF ladies quest - I kept getting these nonsensical responses from the elves ...

 

I think DOS2 had ambition in their ending when I think back on it, but it was poorly executed, maybe?  I haven't thought on it much at all, but I was more annoyed than awed at the whole thing.

 

Edit:  Okay thinking on it more - so you get setup with all these options in DOS2 right?  And not one of them sets up the story for anything more, I just Googled them to remember.  All of them were so extreme in their finality, I almost felt like none of them were earned.  DOS1 did a much better job with the ending, nicely tied up all the loose ends etc.  DOS2 in comparison is somewhat like a buffet of $20 dollar sensational options with little flavor to just have something there.  I don't know ... open to peoples thoughts.

I don't want to get into an indepth debate about DOS2 ending here, so i don't spoil it for people who might wanna play, but there wasn't anything particularly ambiguous about it from what i remember, however i only played the Definitive Edition. And, apparently Larian redid the entire chapter 4 Arx in the Definitive, it's way, way better now. Talk about commitment to their craft, just like they retroactively added complete voice over for the first DOS. I'm happy Obsidian is following suit with the TB mode.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Yes I remember reading they redid Chapter 3 and 4 actually - both needed some polish.  I am interested though - did you think having the levels of terrain added a lot to DOS2 - I mean would a bow really do that much more damage, I get added distance and perhaps bonus THACO (old term), but damage?

 

Or did you find yourself really using the responsive elements like water, poison, etc a lot?  I think I used ice the most as it was an easy solution.

 

I only ask because I think Larian went somewhat unrealistic with it and made it extremely in your face, but I could see this in some form becoming a staple in all future RPGs, and wondering if people would like to see it in a POE game in some form?

 

I could go for things like ice attacks slowing movement - but I am not sure all poison clouds should explode - that seems strange for poison ...

[AlexDeLarge]

My ranger was the most effective damage dealer in the party, and i think a big part of that is because i always tried to get him in good positions to exploit high ground advantage (you can get up to 60% more dmg from high ground IIRC). As for the elements, i mostly used a combination of geomancers (earth) and pyromancers, and those 2 elements rely more on raw damage (including damage over time) than debilitating status effects. But if you go hydro/aero route, the terrain will become a much bigger factor, allowing you to setup chain stuns or freezes.

 

One aspect i find super neat is that the concept of how you build your party is essential in DOS2. You can build a party around targeting the enemies' physical armor or magic armor, which will prove very efficient but at the cost of versatility; like in the final battle on Bloodmoon Isle, where they have undispellable aura of evasion, good luck tackling that with an all physical party. You also have to be very mindful of anti synergies when you construct your characters, the most obvious one being Pyro and Hydro, but there are quite a few more. So this makes party design a much more creative and rewarding process.

 

Back on topic, what Larian did with environmental battlegrounds is truly incredible and it will most likely pave the way of how future RPG's work imo.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by AlexDeLarge

[bringingyouthefuture]

Yes I agree that is really what makes it so groundbreaking, and that they brought back turn-based combat.  I just think it is a system that isn't so much tactical as just fun to play around with - at the end of the day like I said a water balloon and a single source point freeze spell always was the most effective for my style of play.

 

I would actually like to see some terrain advantages built into POE3  - I could dig higher ground giving advantage, just not sure that damage is the correct factor.  I mean think about for instance penetration.  In POE2 if you get your archer in a position above the fight - I could see an added ACC bonus and maybe a penetration bonus - but an arrow is an arrow   But since he is up there out of the fray doesn't he lose on deflection, or maybe reflex?  I don't know but I think I could dig higher ground if it gave an ACC bonus, maybe penetration - not sure though.

 

As for the elements - less is better in my mind.  Like I don't think freezing someone completely helps DOS2, slowing down movement and attacks yes!  Not all poisons should explode, none should actually.  Standing in a puddle doesn't mean you should get electrocuted and maybe stunned - standing in a slog zone and electrocuting it - I am torn - I mean these lightening bolts striking people, are they really strong enough to hit everyone like a real lightening bolt?  Maybe some extra damage, but stunning??  I could see some being added but DOS2 really went all in with them, which like I said was fun but I wouldn't want to see them implemented the same in a game like POE where combat is already leagues beyond in terms of tactical ... at least for me.

[AlexDeLarge]

There are some quirky traits about DOS environmental combos indeed, like the poison exploding as you said, but i focused on the positive side, which is that it brought a lot of versatility and only your own imagination was the limit of what could be accomplished. 

 

I am curious though, why do you say POE combat is league above in terms of tactics? Because, in my own experience, playing on the hardest possible settings (POTD full upscale + 5 challenges), once i reached max level in this game - which is very fast in this game sadly - and semi-optimized my toons, i could go into every single encounter and autopilot the same routine as before, worked every time. I can even tell you my party composition and action order if you are interested. And 3 out of my 4 companions were story ones, so not even min maxed. So, where is the tactical depth?

Edited March 6, 2019 by AlexDeLarge

[bringingyouthefuture]

Also want to respond to your comment about magic and armor defense - this is actually want made the game super simple for me - I had basically 3 strategies to get at any enemy - one that targeted the physical - one that targeted magic - and my archer to get to higher ground ... once I found those I rarely needed anything else.  The Bloodmoon fight, it was tough, not as tough as the Scarecrow in the fire for some reason ... I think I teleported the scarecrow to the beach at one point for fun and fought her in the water lol I don't think it made a difference ...

[AlexDeLarge]

Also want to respond to your comment about magic and armor defense - this is actually want made the game super simple for me - I had basically 3 strategies to get at any enemy - one that targeted the physical - one that targeted magic - and my archer to get to higher ground ... once I found those I rarely needed anything else.  The Bloodmoon fight, it was tough, not as tough as the Scarecrow in the fire for some reason ... I think I teleported the scarecrow to the beach at one point for fun and fought her in the water lol I don't think it made a difference ...

Hah, my own experience with Alice Alisceon the fire witch was also brutal, she steamrolled my party like 5 times, despite me teleporting her on the beach to fight her minions first. But you can also teleport her to Jahan and he instakills her, which is kinda cool, there are always countless ways to approach a situation in this game. You can even kill Alexander in Fort Joy with death fog barrels so you don't have to fight him later.

Edited March 6, 2019 by AlexDeLarge

[bringingyouthefuture]

Hmm ... double posting sorry!

 

There are some quirky traits about DOS environmental combos indeed, like the poison exploding as you said, but i focused on the positive side, which is that it brought a lot of versatility and only your own imagination was the limit of what could be accomplished. 

 

I am curious though, why do you say POE combat is league above in terms of tactics? Because, in my own experience, playing on the hardest possible settings (POTD full upscale + 5 challenges), once i reached max level in this game - which is very fast in this game sadly - and semi-optimized my toons, i could go into every single encounter and autopilot the same routine as before, worked every time. I can even tell you my party composition and action order if you are interested. And 3 out of my 4 companions were story ones, so not even min maxed. So, where is the tactical depth?

 

Hmm, I put on an experience mod so I couldn't level up as fast - and am still lvl 16 with the majority of the game finished.  The quick answer - I can say the same thing about DOS2 - it just stopped really being challenging after the first Chapter.

 

I don't know, I just find myself (again not totally leveled up) having to figure out many of the set fights, and trying different things to win, different spells, etc.  While DOS2 I found encounters became the same fight over and over again.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

Also want to respond to your comment about magic and armor defense - this is actually want made the game super simple for me - I had basically 3 strategies to get at any enemy - one that targeted the physical - one that targeted magic - and my archer to get to higher ground ... once I found those I rarely needed anything else.  The Bloodmoon fight, it was tough, not as tough as the Scarecrow in the fire for some reason ... I think I teleported the scarecrow to the beach at one point for fun and fought her in the water lol I don't think it made a difference ...

Hah, my own experience with Alice Alisceon the fire witch was also brutal, she steamrolled my party like 5 times, despite me teleporting her on the beach to fight her minions first. But you can also teleport her to Jahan and he instakills her, which is kinda cool, there are always countless ways to approach a situation in this game. You can even kill Alexander in Fort Joy with death fog barrels so you don't have to fight him later.

 

 

And yes - like I said DOS2 is fun like that, just for me not as rewarding in terms of combat.

 

I mean my favorite move was to turn people into a chicken and hamstring them, and then catch them on fire ...

[AlexDeLarge]

Ohh, you didn't finish the game, why didn't you say so in the first place. The general consensus is, once you get to level 20, the difficulty becomes rather trivial. They did take some steps to alleviate this in the DLC's, but not enough to satisfy a veteran player's desire for true challenge. But, who knows, maybe a couple of years from now, we will get a mod called Eora Stratagems 

Edited March 6, 2019 by AlexDeLarge

[bringingyouthefuture]

I played through the first half like 30 times as they kept patching.  I waited to do the end for when they did the final POtD patch - didn't want to just walk-through it single hitting enemies to death and spoil the fun.  I definitely am aware of the level up issue I figured that out my first playthrough that I abandoned waiting for them to fix PoTD, that is why I put on the mod, I am level 16 and have nothing left to explore - maybe a few islands to burn through - and on PoTD with level scaling up - I went to Nemnok's island and realized I wanted to wait for another level, though I think I could of slogged through those fights - I am playing with only the companion characters.

 

I am doing the DLCs now but paused to play Pathfinder, I got obsessed with trying to build a character that could get through the first chapter on Unfair ...

 

Which I have now given up on ... I have no interest anymore with playing it on Unfair.

 

I must say though I think with the experience mod, for me at least I have been surprisingly challenged.  I mean I wasn't just speaking out of my a!! about how many hours I have put into POE2 and comparing it to DOS2 - the thing is I just keep starting over, maybe because I don't want to beat the game - maybe some weird obsessive thing, like once I beat it I have to put it down lol

 

Edit:

I bumped this thread sorry!

Edited March 6, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[AlexDeLarge]

I feel you, my first attempt at P:K when it first launched was also Unfair (edit: no, it was actually on Hard), until i got to the spider swarm fight and couldn't beat it after ~30 reloads. I think the game was also very bugged at the time, could have played a part, but still, from what i've read, the hardest difficulties in that game are insane, even for the most seasoned players. Planning on starting a proper playthrough in the upcoming days, excited about it!

 

Edit: Just how much XP did you reduce btw? Because Deadly Deadfire mod reduces it to -25% IIRC, and you would still get to level 20 reasonably fast even with that handicap.

Edited March 6, 2019 by AlexDeLarge

[bringingyouthefuture]

I feel you, my first attempt at P:K when it first launched was also unfair, until i got to the spider swarm fight and couldn't beat it after ~30 reloads. I think the game was also very bugged at the time, could have played a part, but still, from what i've read, the hardest difficulties in that game are insane, even for the most seasoned players. Planning on starting a proper playthrough in the upcoming days, excited about it!

 

I read that you can only get through the first part of the game the tutorial on Unfair by heavily kiting - not sure that is true ... I got through most of the first chapter on Hard ... but realized I was running out of healing potions lol.  I think I could do the whole game on Hard, and might try Unfair, but not that interested anymore.  Close to the end so going to finish it and then never look back !!!  good game, lots to do, but talk about Combat - I am not sure half the abilities work like they should, or ever will ...

[algroth]

 

I feel you, my first attempt at P:K when it first launched was also unfair, until i got to the spider swarm fight and couldn't beat it after ~30 reloads. I think the game was also very bugged at the time, could have played a part, but still, from what i've read, the hardest difficulties in that game are insane, even for the most seasoned players. Planning on starting a proper playthrough in the upcoming days, excited about it!

 

I read that you can only get through the first part of the game the tutorial on Unfair by heavily kiting - not sure that is true ... I got through most of the first chapter on Hard ... but realized I was running out of healing potions lol.  I think I could do the whole game on Hard, and might try Unfair, but not that interested anymore.  Close to the end so going to finish it and then never look back !!!  good game, lots to do, but talk about Combat - I am not sure half the abilities work like they should, or ever will ...

 

I should warn that the difficulty spike in chapter 6 is absolutely ridiculous, and frankly not even worth the challenge of trying to go through it in hard difficulty or beyond. But thankfully the difficulty can be changed at any moment in the game, so you can always try to see up to where you get to with it.

Edited March 6, 2019 by algroth

[bringingyouthefuture]

I feel you, my first attempt at P:K when it first launched was also Unfair (edit: no, it was actually on Hard), until i got to the spider swarm fight and couldn't beat it after ~30 reloads. I think the game was also very bugged at the time, could have played a part, but still, from what i've read, the hardest difficulties in that game are insane, even for the most seasoned players. Planning on starting a proper playthrough in the upcoming days, excited about it!

 

Edit: Just how much XP did you reduce btw? Because Deadly Deadfire mod reduces it to -25% IIRC, and you would still get to level 20 reasonably fast even with that handicap.

 

Somewhere between 25 and 30 percent I can check, I should be level 19 going on 20 right now, but am 16 going on 17 - with 3 major main story quests to go - Ashen Maw, The Coming Storm, and Ukaizo - with Splintered Reef, Nemnok and the DLCs as side quests - so yeah I will reach level 20 before the end, if I do the DLCs and all side quests I am guessing before I went to Ashen Maw?  I would at least be back at level 19 for sure.  Interesting I heard that last difficulty patch they bumped the end game again - was excited about that but regardless, getting even to where I am now has been a pretty constant challenge, and I am finding Beasts of Winter challenging for sure.  So four more levels of fun!!  I am game!

 

Edit:  That being said I look for the steeper challenge and am willing to play a fight 10-30 times if I must - so yeah I would definitely go for more difficulty in POE3.  Did you take part in the Beta test?  So there was this thing they put in with Sandblights that made them impossible!!  Everyone said it was too much, but I was on the fence kind of like maybe too much but it was also fun having to figure out how to beat it ... not saying I could play the whole game like with that much difficulty but I can handle sections or encounters like that. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

 

I feel you, my first attempt at P:K when it first launched was also unfair, until i got to the spider swarm fight and couldn't beat it after ~30 reloads. I think the game was also very bugged at the time, could have played a part, but still, from what i've read, the hardest difficulties in that game are insane, even for the most seasoned players. Planning on starting a proper playthrough in the upcoming days, excited about it!

 

I read that you can only get through the first part of the game the tutorial on Unfair by heavily kiting - not sure that is true ... I got through most of the first chapter on Hard ... but realized I was running out of healing potions lol.  I think I could do the whole game on Hard, and might try Unfair, but not that interested anymore.  Close to the end so going to finish it and then never look back !!!  good game, lots to do, but talk about Combat - I am not sure half the abilities work like they should, or ever will ...

 

I should warn that the difficulty spike in chapter 6 is absolutely ridiculous, and frankly not even worth the challenge of trying to go through it in hard difficulty or beyond. But thankfully the difficulty can be changed at any moment in the game, so you can always try to see up to where you get to with it.

 

 

I said I think!! I didn't say I could, wouldn't be the first time I had to eat my words   I was also debating if I could even get through the first bloom on hard, but with the right amount of rest I have no doubt!!

Edited March 6, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[Rooksx]

 

It's not unprecedented. See the Normandy store on ME3, where you could buy items from all other stores at a mark-up.

 

 

In a world of long and frequent load times, such a store would be a god-send.

 

But it is reasonable to say that it is not immersive. Frankly it can hollow out the game if done poorly. Sometimes the fun is in the journey ("flavor" of going to areas/stores) rather than the destination (the "practical result" of paying money to get an item). That is to say, ME3 is a pretty different game than Deadfire.

I don't disagree that it would have a negative effect on immersion within the Deadfire's setting. One can come up with some reason why it exists (eg the merchants have a trading network) but it would be artificial. It's noteworthy though that in the massive BG2, there were actually very few merchants who sold unique items. Basically every unique you could buy was sold at Ribald's adventurer's mart. You did not have to trek around the world to buy special items.

[beatspores]

Increase the number of playable sub-races.  While I'm not a huge fan of playing god-likes myself (hate giving up the hat/helmet slot), it grinds my gears to see these other GL subraces not being available for player use.  I'd also like to see at least a third playable sub-race for dwarves, elves, orlans, and aumaua. 

 

At this moment, I have to admit that I have no serious ideas for what they might be, but it shouldn't be THAT difficult to come up with them.  For example, part of me would like to see the third orlan sub-race be used to explain why some orlans have that outlandish green or blue fur.  And perhaps a third race of elves could be some sort of sea elf, though to be honest, if such a sea elven sub race did exist, they probably would have been perfect for Deadfire.  I suppose that an underground sub-race of elves might be possible, but it might risk being too much like D&D's dark elves.  Anyways, this is just a passing thought.

 

Sawyer wrote somewhere perhaps in an answer to a question or whatever that they wanted companions to be unique, hence the limitation regarding your Watcher character. Personally I prefer it this way even though I'm disappointed with the absolute majority of the companions in Deadfire.

 

 

Your only valid criticism is about the OST, yes they should hire a proper composer for the OST and let Justin Bell do rest of the general audio design.

 

I'm surprised. I thoroughly enjoyed Deadfire's music and I'm impressed with the work. Naturally I don't like everything but that's likely an impossible task to achieve. Following are my favourites.

 

 

 

 

And if anybody cares, likely not, I also liked this piece very much.

 

 

Makes me want that they return to a more gloomy setting next game, whatever it may be.

Edited March 6, 2019 by beatspores

[InsaneCommander]

 

Blowing up stuff in DOS is so satisfying.

[Crucis]

 

Increase the number of playable sub-races.  While I'm not a huge fan of playing god-likes myself (hate giving up the hat/helmet slot), it grinds my gears to see these other GL subraces not being available for player use.  I'd also like to see at least a third playable sub-race for dwarves, elves, orlans, and aumaua. 

 

At this moment, I have to admit that I have no serious ideas for what they might be, but it shouldn't be THAT difficult to come up with them.  For example, part of me would like to see the third orlan sub-race be used to explain why some orlans have that outlandish green or blue fur.  And perhaps a third race of elves could be some sort of sea elf, though to be honest, if such a sea elven sub race did exist, they probably would have been perfect for Deadfire.  I suppose that an underground sub-race of elves might be possible, but it might risk being too much like D&D's dark elves.  Anyways, this is just a passing thought.

 

Sawyer wrote somewhere perhaps in an answer to a question or whatever that they wanted companions to be unique, hence the limitation regarding your Watcher character. Personally I prefer it this way even though I'm disappointed with the absolute majority of the companions in Deadfire.

 

I guess that my belief on this is exactly 180^o different from Sawyer's.  I prefer that Companions/Sidekicks be of races, backgrounds, and cultures that are completely playable by the player.  The only exception that I see of the choices currently existing in the game is the "Stormfolk" human sub-race, and that's because the Stormfolk are from the other side of the Ondra's Mortar storms, and stormfolk are super, super rare on "our" side of the world.  I can accept that.  But the rest, not even a little.

 

I absolutely HATE that I can't use these backgrounds, cultures, and subraces.  

 

Frankly, I'd love to see double the number of backgrounds.  I don't think that there'd be that many more cultures that could be added beyond perhaps the Vailian Republics, and the Dyrwood and Readceras.  Anything beyond that (on "our" side of the world, at least) would have to be something new that's never been mentioned in the historical/geographical background information.

 

 

Regarding the human sub-races, I kind of wish that they'd come up with different special abilities for them, rather than assuming that all humans, regardless of "sub-race", have the same "special ability".  Part of me is wondering if this is some sort of thing because the devs don't want to make any PC waves.  But at the same time, some of these special abilities seem more like mere adaptations that these groups of people have developed due to the different environments that their groups came from.   And part of me thinks that having different sub-races with different special abilities for the non-human races while not doing the exact same thing for the human sub-races, sort of negates any attempts to avoid PC controversy.  

 

Related side thought.  I liked how the devs changed the special for wood elves to a Dexterity Affliction resistance.   It seems to me that affliction resistances make a great special ability, since there are 6 different attribute-linked affliction resistances to choose from and use.  And there are 6 different primary races.  Heck, they could have given each primary race an attribute affliction resistance.

 

I could see the primary races having the following attribute affliction resistances, in addition to any other special ability.

 

Human: Resolve

Dwarf: Constitution

Elf: Dexterity

Godlike: Intelligence

Orlan: Perception

Aumaua: Might

 

 

Just a passing thought.

[xzar_monty]

 

 

Increase the number of playable sub-races.  While I'm not a huge fan of playing god-likes myself (hate giving up the hat/helmet slot), it grinds my gears to see these other GL subraces not being available for player use.  I'd also like to see at least a third playable sub-race for dwarves, elves, orlans, and aumaua. 

 

At this moment, I have to admit that I have no serious ideas for what they might be, but it shouldn't be THAT difficult to come up with them.  For example, part of me would like to see the third orlan sub-race be used to explain why some orlans have that outlandish green or blue fur.  And perhaps a third race of elves could be some sort of sea elf, though to be honest, if such a sea elven sub race did exist, they probably would have been perfect for Deadfire.  I suppose that an underground sub-race of elves might be possible, but it might risk being too much like D&D's dark elves.  Anyways, this is just a passing thought.

 

Sawyer wrote somewhere perhaps in an answer to a question or whatever that they wanted companions to be unique, hence the limitation regarding your Watcher character. Personally I prefer it this way even though I'm disappointed with the absolute majority of the companions in Deadfire.

 

I guess that my belief on this is exactly 180^o different from Sawyer's.  I prefer that Companions/Sidekicks be of races, backgrounds, and cultures that are completely playable by the player.  The only exception that I see of the choices currently existing in the game is the "Stormfolk" human sub-race, and that's because the Stormfolk are from the other side of the Ondra's Mortar storms, and stormfolk are super, super rare on "our" side of the world.  I can accept that.  But the rest, not even a little.

 

I absolutely HATE that I can't use these backgrounds, cultures, and subraces. 

 

Why should they be completely playable? I mean, can you give a good rationale for it? I don't see it as being that big of an issue either way, but to the extent that there is a substantial difference, I would definitely side with Sawyer, on the grounds that companions are, shall we say, more uniqie, if you can't be like them. To take an example from an earlier classic, Aerie in Baldur's Gate 2 is the only representative of the winged elves in the entire game, and that makes her quite unique and therefore special (although some dislike her with a vengeance, but that's a different story).

 

If you absolutely HATE anything in a game, maybe you should go out for a bit.

[Ormag]

Sorry, you can't have all the toys, some should remain unreachable so they can stay fresh and orignial for when you inevitably discover them.

Makes no sense to introduce new races to a sequel too, since It basically means your watcher couldn't have belonged to that race in the previous game. For custom adventurers, maybe, but then again why not just give the unique race to a companion or a sidekick as they've been doing already

Edited March 7, 2019 by Ormag