The ending feels very underwhelming

[pjotroos]

The game was fun overall, the new combat and leveling systems both feel like clear improvements over the first one, I liked enough of the companions that I had hard time deciding who to sit out - but yesterday I've made it to the end credits, and I came away from the game feeling quite underwhelmed. I've slept on it, and I can narrow down the reason to three things. Spoilers all over, obviously. 

 

1. I've spend over 60 hours playing it, but nothing of consequence happened until the last two.

 

Almost from the very start, I've been choosing to side with Huana whenever possible. I've lend a hand to Royal Deadfire Company otherwise (but not if the choice was between the two). I didn't bother with the Principi much, after getting rid of Benweth. I also picked up every single quest Valians gave me, then did the exact opposite of what they asked where possible. I destroyed the adra pillar on Poko Kohara and told their shaman that Vailians planned on sacrificing them. After they asked me to cut a deal with the slavers, I slaughtered every last one of them and happily reported back. I've sank a handful of Vailian ships for good measure.

 

Until the Ukaizo revelation, no number of choices could lock me out from a faction. As soon as the endgame comes, a single choice locks me out of all factions but one. I've finished the game with Huana's help, and got to see their happy ending, where they diminish the trading companies and grow strong. Then I went back two hours, sided with RDC, and got to see their happy ending, where they steamroll over the archipelago and kick Vailians out. I go back again and pick Vailians' quests next. I didn't bother going through it, but I know it's available, and I imagine it gives them their happy ending. This doesn't feel at all organic. Why would Vailians trust me at all at this point? Why aren't the earlier quests gradually locking us out of the factions?

 

2. I just blew up a building full of innocents (or killed a queen) for a front row seat.

 

Once Eothas' plan gets revealed, there's massive pressure to get through to Ukaizo and talk to him. Not massive enough to stop the squabbling and infighting, mind, but you get told the future of the world depends on you nonetheless. You commit to getting there by any means necessary - be it regicide or mass murder. You brave the Ondra's Mortar, fight the ancient guardian, murder one of the other factions some more, antagonize over what you will do and say over and over. Then you catch up with Eothas and get to point out just one single flaw in his plan, out of many (I chose "what about all the souls that will get stuck in In-Between?" on one go and "if you really do this to help kith, how about you actually give us some handicap?" on another). One of the options is literally telling him you just came to watch, thanks. Best I can tell, there isn't one to tell him his "kindness" is no different from Woedica's plotting; an uncaring god imposing his wisdom on the kith, consequences be damned. And then he goes ahead and does exactly what he set out to do.

 

And that's fair enough, you can't always win. But as soon as he's done tearing the Wheel into pieces, the ending narrator kicks in and starts talking about "the enormity of what I accomplished" and plays it up as some massive success. But that rang ridiculously hollow. The only thing that I've accomplished was beating Hazanui Karu to this island by couple of hours (or some Vailian prince on the RDC path) and flipping a switch. I've stopped nothing. I just had another chat with Stay Puft, and he decided when to end that chat, just like with the other three chats we had. The only reason I was even there was thanks to someone else's watershapers or special ships. Me chasing all over the map after Ukaizo's location made no difference, either - it was revealed when it was time for the third act to start.

 

3. The most memorable part of the ending was my girlfriend exploding into bloody pieces

 

Last but not least: Maia was fun character, so I always had her around in my party. At some point she started flirting, so I flirted back. Her bird was hungry, so I chased after shark meat to feed him. She appreciated it so much we went and snogged in the broom closet. Maia was also a loyal soldier, so she always followed her RDC orders. At some point she said we need to talk, and acted offended when I asked if this is the moment where she betrays me (even though it was where she betrayed me). She disappeared for a while, then told about the nasty things she did while she were away. She felt bad about it.

 

Yet when it came to me choosing sides, and I didn't chose hers, she left there and then. She said I can't expect her to go against her country. I tried to plead with her, but she wasn't having any of it. She was gone. I met here again on Ukaizo, at Hazanui's side, with red circle under her feet. I used Serafen's mind control to take her out of the fight, hoping she'll calm down once her side is beaten. I took out everyone else, then waited for the mind control to run out. Nothing - not a word, not a single comment. Just back to shooting at me. I send my party to take her down, and Eder landed a crit. Just like that, she just exploded into hundred bloody bits.

 

I'm not actually criticising this. I genuinely felt bad about how things turned out, but I could understand why she did what she did, why I ended up staring down the barrel of her gun in the end. When that overkill animation kicked in, I felt sick there and then. Thing is, that was the only part of the final act that actually made me feel anything. Everything else rang all the more hollow because of that one organic moment; the final narration was droning on about Eothas punching a tower over and over, and I just kept thinking "I can't believe Maia's gone. There isn't even enough left to bury". When I replayed last act for the RDC path, nothing remotely close this impactful happened. The ending felt all the weaker for it.

 

 

I'm leaving this here because it felt like the right place to vent, but also because I'm hoping this doesn't come across as purely ranting, and is constructive enough to provide some feedback on what worked and what didn't. I honestly believe the game would be better if the different factions started giving up on me earlier: it would make it more replayable, it would add more impact to my actions in the earlier acts, and it would make the final act much less busy. I know there's a stigma about locking out large chunks of game out from the audience, but if there's any game that I'd expect to take the risk, it's the one that has been crowdfunded by a particular audience in the first place.

 

I also hope that the inevitable PoE III gives a little more reason for our Watcher to follow the events. We had as little actual choice over the ending of the first game as we did on the second: Thaos always dies, Eothas always succeeds, and we just get decide what happens to the souls after. Difference is, Thaos falls by our hand. Us being there is required for the events to happen. Us being on Ukaizo is not.

[Galagraphia]

Hm, yes, I like how you explained this. When I finished the game, I was like, "So, I could have told Berath in the beginning to let me die, and it wouldn't change anything?" I didn't feel like I made a difference. Didn't feel like I got anything from doing side quests other than the XP. Comparing to Pillars 1 ending, where you stop the Legacy, and return hope to a broken country, where children are born again because of what you did, Deadfire ending doesn't feel good at all to me. Also there's so little influence on our companions this time, that they feel like some brief acquaintances, not real friends. I didn't feel like I've changed their lives for better or forged meaningful friendships. Their loyalty to the Watcher apparently doesn't affect anything, so what was the point of it? I'd say this is the biggest disappointment since I finished Mass Effect 3. I liked some parts of the game, but overall it felt shallow and unrewarding.

[Stephen Unsworth-Mitchell]

Honestly we should get kicked out factions bit by bit as we progress things. I also say not wise kick us from factions to soon as that get lot complaints like tyranny did. They need balance weight system that will at right time kick you from faction for to much negative impact on that faction.

 

As for party members they need be balanced so yes some have potential leave but there needs be chance of keeping some that are negatively effected by some actions.

 

Person might choose there country over you but maybe they can be shown that what countries doing is wrong and therefore that person decides stay but to do that person has be party member well used and right dialogs used. That been said think that should be dice roll to decide stay or leave ultimately that way can get those shocking memorable things happen. Some dialog option should kill other dialog options and your action in deadfire should also effect if some conversation can or can not be used. How you develop your watchers and companions character should also define how watcher and companions interact with each other and that should effect factions and world around you. 

 

As for ending yeah was big let down. really destroyed any real need of everything you have done. Personally think they need change ending as its games biggest failing. 

 

Choices and consequences need really play out through out story. why is he doing it should we join and help or as gods want stop him. What do each factions want are there goals compatible or not with our watcher. we should get locked out some factions but not all. Our choices should effect more then locking us out a faction. Annoying one faction by doing other faction yes locks us out but how does that locked out faction feel are we threat to them are they going try kill us. Will annoying faction force 2 faction join together or more and make stand against us. Or will it set faction on path in an attempt to destroy faction we are helping mostly (war).

 

The endings need be tied to character development of watcher, companions and factions and therefore connected to world we have shaped.

[morhilane]

Hm, yes, I like how you explained this. When I finished the game, I was like, "So, I could have told Berath in the beginning to let me die, and it wouldn't change anything?" I didn't feel like I made a difference. Didn't feel like I got anything from doing side quests other than the XP. Comparing to Pillars 1 ending, where you stop the Legacy, and return hope to a broken country, where children are born again because of what you did, Deadfire ending doesn't feel good at all to me. Also there's so little influence on our companions this time, that they feel like some brief acquaintances, not real friends. I didn't feel like I've changed their lives for better or forged meaningful friendships. Their loyalty to the Watcher apparently doesn't affect anything, so what was the point of it? I'd say this is the biggest disappointment since I finished Mass Effect 3. I liked some parts of the game, but overall it felt shallow and unrewarding.

 

Some people should probably go the wiki and read the ending possibilities, it's way more complex then POE1. Even the companion stuff.

 

I get the feeling more people should pick the last option with Eothas...who doesn't want to destroy Eora.

[CAlmond]

even though I agree with the facts that have been stated, I have to say I disagree with the conclusion. For example, your accomplishment isn't stopping a god or anything like that. Your accomplishment is being able to stand there in the first place and surviving the outcome.

 

At the end of the day I actually like the ending(s) that I've seen. I think it fits with the overall theme that was made clear if you reject Berath at the beginning. With or without you, the world moves on. Sure you may have feelings for X companion and they for you, but at the end of the day, their loyalty is to their nation that they have known their entire life, not to you, who they have known for only a short while.

 

As a reasonably important figure in the events, you can influence some things, namely the outcome for the other kith. But you can never truly control what is beyond you in the first place, namely the gods. In that, all you can really do is give suggestions and then watch.

 

Personally I was saddened mainly by Clario dying. As other NPCs have said, he's one of the decent VTC figures, trying to look out for more than just his own interests. I haven't visited the wiki endings page yet, but I suspect based on the text that it has something to do with Maia's quest.

[morhilane]

Personally I was saddened mainly by Clario dying. As other NPCs have said, he's one of the decent VTC figures, trying to look out for more than just his own interests. I haven't visited the wiki endings page yet, but I suspect based on the text that it has something to do with Maia's quest.

 

Yup, but it might be possible to sabotage it. Now though, if you sabotage that class quest, can you still tell Maia it is wrong so the ranga nui hears of it which result in him having a chit-chat with his admirals...

[Tarlonniel]

Now though, if you sabotage that class quest, can you still tell Maia it is wrong so the ranga nui hears of it which result in him having a chit-chat with his admirals...

He does that even if you never complete the quest, which is the way I go in my game.

[morhilane]

 

Now though, if you sabotage that class quest, can you still tell Maia it is wrong so the ranga nui hears of it which result in him having a chit-chat with his admirals...

He does that even if you never complete the quest, which is the way I go in my game.

 

Weird, it is supposed to be tied to what you tell her in her personal quest conversation wrap-up.

 

I got no other convo* with her outside quest and romance stuff (which I turned down), I fail to see when you can suggest Rauatai is doing thing wrongs elsewhere.

 

*she went 0 to 2 twice on top of it.

[theBalthazar]

It can be 40 backgrounds endings + few words to create an illusion. It is not real content.

 

Game can be finished in 2h00. Absurd.

 

In fact, I think POE1 was more "full and with a good synthesis". POE2 have too much side quest and too little main quest.

 

It is the big mistake of devs last years : I hate games like skyrim and others for that. When I play the game for the first time, I want to be carried away for the story first.

 

I prefer I good a intense part of full story without "blank". POE1 had a better approach of that. A better rise in power.

 

Even with Mass Effect 2 and all companions stuff (recruitment etc.), it is epic, all "big" missions are epics.

 

The Witcher 3 is my actual new reference. He is perfect. (and he have a lot of side quests !) Even DLC are absolutely awsome. POE2 seem to be a sand box for theorycrafter for me now. But I didn't play for the story.

Edited May 22, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Slotharingia]

Lots of people complain the game is too short, so getting kicked out of the factions would make that worse and it's probably why we don't. We can also sack ships of any faction with impunity apparently, but friendly fire from fights will get - approval from where it happens, at least that was the conclusion I came to. To make matters worse, Maia won't even leave if you just don't take her with you when you side with the Huana. This is what I did and the only thing that happened was that she stared at me spitefully on the boat, so she obviously knew.

[flamesium]

Maia will flip out if you look like going to Ukaizo with the VTC, yet she had no problem with shooting her own boss when he turns up at the end.

[morhilane]

Game can be finished in 2h00. Absurd.

 

BG2 can be finished in 1 hour (without using exploit), I have never seen anyone complains about that game being too short.

[theBalthazar]

BG2 have far a greater story than POE2.

 

POE2 it is weird... It is like hollidays with benefits : p

 

What is real keys of each step of story of POE2 ?

 

To be honnest, even POE1, was not crazy for his story. More for his background, his atmos (like always with obsidian) But here it is worst.

 

Here it is exactly the same for POE2. Great atmos, great background (factions more detailled etc.) And a pitiful main story.

 

Hope a POE3 with a big and epic story to conclude the saga !

 

EDIT :

 

The truth is : Obsidian can't fine-tuning the game by lack of time, so the end is rushed. Hope a rectification with theses coming month.

 

This and battle ship are the worst default of the game. The rest is really good. (Multiclass, subclass, atmos, design...)

Edited May 22, 2018 by theBalthazar

[evilcat]

Maia will flip out if you look like going to Ukaizo with the VTC, yet she had no problem with shooting her own boss when he turns up at the end.

Wait.

Are there a means to Maia not abandon the ship? And not siding with Royal Trade Company?

[Wormerine]

Oddly enough none of my companions left me when I sided with Valians. Maia would, but I didn’t talk to her, so the conversation never got triggered.

[Aramintai]

Oddly enough none of my companions left me when I sided with Valians. Maia would, but I didn’t talk to her, so the conversation never got triggered.

She leaves by sending you a farewell message.

[Anarath]

Remembers me of my own rant, which is a bit different though since I wanted something specific to be of impact.

 

(If you want to read it: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/100071-spoilers-end-game-slides-actionsreactions-logic-issues/)

 

But overall I'm completely with you win this pjotroos. Many missed opportunities and lack of main plot.

Not a bad game, but a lackluster story.

[morhilane]

 

Maia will flip out if you look like going to Ukaizo with the VTC, yet she had no problem with shooting her own boss when he turns up at the end.

Wait.

Are there a means to Maia not abandon the ship? And not siding with Royal Trade Company?

 

She leaves no matter what if you side Vailian Republics.

If you bring her with you to do the Huana final request, she leaves. She doesn't if she isn't in the party (this might be a bug).

If you side Principi or no one she stays.

[oilnwater]

 

.....

Yet when it came to me choosing sides, and I didn't chose hers, she left there and then. She said I can't expect her to go against her country. I tried to plead with her, but she wasn't having any of it. She was gone. I met here again on Ukaizo, at Hazanui's side, with red circle under her feet. I used Serafen's mind control to take her out of the fight, hoping she'll calm down once her side is beaten. I took out everyone else, then waited for the mind control to run out. Nothing - not a word, not a single comment. Just back to shooting at me. I send my party to take her down, and Eder landed a crit. Just like that, she just exploded into hundred bloody bits.

 

I'm not actually criticising this. I genuinely felt bad about how things turned out, but I could understand why she did what she did, why I ended up staring down the barrel of her gun in the end. When that overkill animation kicked in, I felt sick there and then. Thing is, that was the only part of the final act that actually made me feel anything. Everything else rang all the more hollow because of that one organic moment; the final narration was droning on about Eothas punching a tower over and over, and I just kept thinking "I can't believe Maia's gone. There isn't even enough left to bury". When I replayed last act for the RDC path, nothing remotely close this impactful happened. The ending felt all the weaker for it. ......

 

 

 

Sorry but I heartily laughed at this part, yet, also cried a bit inside b/c I too chose the Maia romance.  And mainly because her romance opening dialogue was so ..damn ..cool.  And her storyline quest is damn cool too.  It would be totally mortifying to meet her end like this!

[lpro]

spoiler alert

 

so i chose VTC (if castol remains it seems to be revealed as the actually conventional good option as they merely economically penetrate the deadfire further and the Republics develop amazing science). but i kept maia basically on the outs at the endgame. she consequently never deserted even after i blew up the powderhouse—she just stood around on the ship and acted angrily. tekehu —i never talked to him—did leave though after expressing skepticism the huana would ever receive Ukaizo back. i killed pirates at the end. why didn’t she desert even?

 

second yeah ending feels unfinished. all the dialogue and lote about the gods not being transcendant but constructed, the adra statur relying on souls, the previous killings of Eothas by the Godhammer and Abydon in WM seem to lead inescapably to the conclusion that you should be able to somehow betray Eothas and save the wheel or even usurp a divine position using Ukaizo, animancy, and/or the Wheel and say, wipe the rictus off of the Usher’s face in the Beyond. Both endings would have been incredible.

[flamesium]

 

Maia will flip out if you look like going to Ukaizo with the VTC, yet she had no problem with shooting her own boss when he turns up at the end.

 

Wait.

Are there a means to Maia not abandon the ship? And not siding with Royal Trade Company?

For me it was taking the Floating Hangman from the Principi quest but going alone.