Gromnir

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Definitely not my post though. LOL You're dodging. *sigh* before the edit, you used bg2 as the model, but it don't matter Quote "provide an alternative system that is as simple and straightforward to implement as task/quest only xp that will will guarantee that regardless of an individual purchaser's style o' gameplay, they will get as much xp as a fighty, diplomatic, sneaky or whatever else kinda player." Planescape Torment's system, minus the meta-gaming exploits. I would suggest NPCs/monsters who are dealt with non-violently during the course of a quest/task/objective be worth zero XP for anyone who attempts to double-dip the rewards after initially completing the quest. Edited by Stun, Today, 02:28 PM. ps:t is no better. is no way possible you can be honest and believe that ps:t approach were more simple and straightforward. you is showing you ain't even trying for reason. and as for suggesting stealth deserves no xp, that further removes you from the realm o' rationale discourse, seeing as how an espoused goal o' PoE is to make all builds equal viable and rewarding. sarex comments is simple silly. will respond quick 'cause is funny rather than contributing anything. quest xp precludes the possibility o' the most obvious exploits as no XP advantage for any particular build is possible. the developers wanna encourage folks to try different approaches, so making no particular build or set o' builds has a numeric xp advantage makes diversity o' playable builds more likely. you don't wanna take just enough perception/intellect/lore to get the good diplomacy xp rewards? guess what, there is no such perfect amount o' perception for xp maximization. is no XP advantage for killing everything on the map. is no xp advantage for having X levels in mechanics. sure, there will be practical advantages to having various skills, but obsidianis avoiding the obvious xp imbalances, 'cause they ain't balancing. after we diplomacy the ogre, does we go back and see if kill gives more xp in PoE? no. gosh. "PoE is a role-play game that allows sneaky and diplomatic. give xp awards for individual kills, and individual lockpicks and individual whatever inevitably leads to an ideal approach for maximizing xp by making the right gameplay and character development choices. quest only xp avoids the need to devise a fair an balanced calculus. quest is simple and guaranteed to result in every player getting exact same XP rewards for completing quests regardless o' how they chose to complete the quest." repeating self is so tedious. oh, and again, ‘cause some folks has very short attention spans, this entire debate is moot. There don’t exist the resources to change the mxp mechanic at this point, not that the developers believe it is warranted based on their firsthand observation o’ QA actual playing the game. Your Best Case Scenario is coming up with a new contribution to this debate and convincing obsidian to change future games. stun ridiculous notions o’ repeating what obsidian developers such as sawyer and cain consider past xp mechanics failures is not the least bit helpful to your possible ‘cause o’ bringing about future change and improvements. you is gonna need come up with something new, ‘cause old is what is considered the fail, and is too late to change for this game anyway. HA! Good Fun!

the fact that you could possibly believe the bg2 xp system would be more simple and as straight forward to implement shows you ain't even trying to be reasonable... and fact you don't believe stealth should get as much xp as kills is fundamental opposed to goals o' a system wherein the developers specific said they were trying to make all builds equal rewarding and that body count weren't gonna be rewarded. you ain't serious, or you simple ain't capable o' understanding obvious goals o' the developers. which is it? HA! Good Fun!

Ah the infamous double dip. When was that a big problem in the BG series? How much more xp could you even get for it anyways? Maybe a few people did it and you are saying that because of them we should now waste time on a new xp system? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67963-backer-beta-developer-impressions/?p=1495117 people game the system. hell, we has mentioned numerous bg exploits. dual-class and then immediately add max spells to bg2 spellbook to gain multiple mage levels in less than a minute. do the basilisk map in bg with a solo dual-class player to get them level'd quick. simplest "exploit" were the worst: encouraging folks to play combat focused to maximize xp, regardless o' what they might otherwise think were fun. is a pleasant fantasy to believe folks don't game the xp system... just as folks gamed fallout special system. there were literal innumerable possible fallout builds, but only a handful o' builds actual got played. that were in part to maximize xp. any game that has a balancing act for xp may be exploited... so obsidian removes the opportunity to eploit. if there is no advantage to play combat-focused, people will be more likely to try other builds. should be obvious. HA! Good Fun! (edit: changed olay to play... weird)

You lie, you care enough to post that you don't care. Is it care, or narcissism that lead to my post? You decide! but do you care about usc cheerleaders? honestly, the last few years has seemed like a bit o' a drop off... the ucla squad mighta' been superior. sadly for Gromnir, Cal cheerleaders is rare amongst the nation's best, and the UCI/UCSB (our other alma maters) might not even current have cheerleaders. sad. HA! Good Fun! Can't say that - in the scheme of Cheerleaders - that USC has really left much of an impression on me. we played for Cal, so we did notice usc cheerleaders... am embarrassed to admit we typical found the cheerleaders as compelling as the games. we had zero pro potential and practices were cutting into our study time-- we were not an exemplary player from coaches perspective. aside: at the time, asu and arizona had best cheerleaders in the pac 10... not that we were ogling or anything like that. HA! Good Fun!

I can't wait when the game comes out and in the second week guides start coming out with how to exploit the system for max xp. I can't wait to see what you will say then. You are holding up the quest xp system as a beacon of unexploitability, when in fact such a system doesn't exit. The better question is, why should time be wasted on creating such a system in a singleplayer game? not in the sense you seems to believe. for instance, ps:t were rife with unlimited xp exploits from quests. we expect more than a few o' those. what you will never see from PoE is a way to choose best build or best method for garnering xp. no kill 90% underlings, unlock secret door, backtrack and then use diplomacy on final boss nonsense. regardless o' build, you will get same xp. everybody wins. no exploit. HA! Good Fun!

so what? if there ain't currently a quest for that map, there undoubtedly will be in final build, and even if there ain't, so what? stealth past lions would get 0 points. kill would get xp. how is this difficult to grasp? and you can use stealth to get past combat... which would give only the kill-lovers xp. why is kill more xp worthy than stealth? even if you believe kill is more worthy, the developers disagree. for the rest, you reply/quote yourself into meaninglessness. answer the challenge: "provide an alternative system that is as simple and straightforward to implement as task/quest only xp that will will guarantee that regardless of an individual purchaser's style o' gameplay, they will get as much xp as a fighty, diplomatic, sneaky or whatever else kinda player." HA! Good Fun!

but do you care about usc cheerleaders? honestly, the last few years has seemed like a bit o' a drop off... the ucla squad mighta' been superior. sadly for Gromnir, Cal cheerleaders is rare amongst the nation's best, and the UCI/UCSB (our other alma maters) might not even current have cheerleaders. sad. sarex is all over the place http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66146-update-77-art-in-alpha/?p=1445520 can see our seriousness. oh, wait, you is necro-posting over some imagined grudge from a few months ago? how cute. HA! Good Fun!

Np dude glad to be of help, I remember our times fondly in the boobplate discussion we had. My imagination must have went wild there. if you ever thought we were serious 'bout b00b plate enough to make us drop character, you is indeed remembering with personal, if unrealistic fondness... am believing we posted pictures o' the usc cheerleaders in their sweaters in that thread... shows how "serious" we were with our back to ropes in that discussion. *chuckle* in point o' fact, this thread could use some usc cheerleaders. would be just as relevant. HA! Good Fun!

Why? Do they not exist? are they not hostile? Do they not attack the party? Did the devs not specifically place them in the party's way? They're not part of any quest, and therefore cannot be Double-dipped, exploited, or talked down. Nor does attaching an XP value to them break balance, since they will always be available to everyone who chooses to explore that optional map in between questing. *groan* and thus we see the complete lack o' comprehension regarding the possible balance issues. some folks will skip the bugs and spiders by stealthily getting past. others may find some more clever route. what if developers added a secret door? so why does the fighty character get more xp? and if you do give awards for stealthy, how to you balance properly... and how do you prevent folks from doing stealth and kill? quest xp avoids all such balancing issues completely. developers don't care how you solve tasks or quests, so they need not create a perfect calculus to balance. but this has all been said before, and developers is keenly aware that some group o' sincere but misguided folks believe as stun... but stun belief doesn't impact the way QA folks has played game. "PoE is a role-play game that allows sneaky and diplomatic. give xp awards for individual kills, and individual lockpicks and individual whatever inevitably leads to an ideal approach for maximizing xp by making the right gameplay and character development choices. quest only xp avoids the need to devise a fair an balanced calculus. quest is simple and guaranteed to result in every player getting exact same XP rewards for completing quests regardless o' how they chose to complete the quest." so, ignoring for a moment that this entire debate is complete moot given the time left for development and the fact that sawyer and cain bot favor quest xp, "provide an alternative system that is as simple and straightforward to implement as task/quest only xp that will will guarantee that regardless of an individual purchaser's style o' gameplay, they will get as much xp as a fighty, diplomatic, sneaky or whatever else kinda player." HA! Good Fun!

actually, the only time we do so is on the rare occasions when we is serious... typical drop the "HA! Good Fun" too, just so as to be clear. most recent example were some clown making light about his ancestors raping ours. some folks has commented on the fact that they recall us posting normal, but cannot recal more than a handful o' times in more than a decade. you is free to imagine different causes if you wish. it amuses us that you put such thought into the matter. nevertheless, thanks again for proving our point 'bout efficacy o' schmuck detector function. illustrations is always useful. HA! Good Fun! HA! Good Fun!

sorry mc, but it kinda is binary. a primary value o' quest/task is that it avoids balancing. if you create categories that include kill/combat and quest and whatever, you has invalidated the point o' quest/task. you has necessarily reintroduced balancing. What a load of baloney. There's nothing stopping the devs from utterly separating combat from quests. Take the Ogre quest in the beta. That one is worth 2000xp regardless of how you complete it. Therefore, the Gromnirs are the world are happy. Now, what about the totally-unrelated-Lions on the other map? Hmm? Oh, I know! we can make them worth XP if they stomp on the party while they're exploring. Problem friggin solved. getting 2000 xp for the ogre quest is admitted not the problem. getting 2000 xp for the ogre resolution and then trying to add in and balance awards for combats against the bugs and spiders you need to fight or avoid to get to the ogre, or perhaps awards for some other unexpected route to confronting the ogre the developers did not plan for, is what creates a Balancing problem. is this genuine confusing? how? the lions example is pointless with quest xp. HA! Good Fun!

It's just a forum personality...you guys gotta bring more to the table than that in your quest to kill quest only xp (and then get xp from that kill) we noted elsewhere that the Gromnir personality is a near infallible schmuck detector. when folks abandon rational argument and instead focus on our board persona, it is functional an admission o' defeat... or simple schmuckness. on boards such as these, schmuck and intellectual limited go hand-in-hand, so it is admitted tough to distinguish at times. HA! Good Fun!

in the interview, doesn't feargus say that the game (south park) were released "few" months previous? we would need to rewatch, but that would make the interview probable june-july, yes? HA! Good Fun!

Again I feel the sting of irony that you are critiquing me on lack of understanding leading to an ineffective debate. I mean seriously dude.. I barely can piece together what your even talking about.. I read every third word and hope I caught the gist of what you meant.. Which clearly I didn't. HA! Good Fun! finally, something we can agree to: you have a fundamental "lack of understanding." HA! Good Fun!

there is no vote. we has made that observation elsewhere. the developers decided on a best course o' action. they then watched to see how their plan worked in reality via considerable QA, and based on their considerable experience with QA o' past games. this game is now in late beta and sawyer and cain, after having reviewed how game were actually played and responded to via QA, feels that their original choice were correct. the notion that this is a voting issue is a fantasy. is unlikely obsidian would have time or resources to change at this point regardless, but they don't believe a change is justified based on the hypothetical musings o' a relative small number o' boardies when they has actual QA data that backs up their perspective. is no vote. there never were a community vote on this issue. perhaps if somebody, somewhere, in one o' these interminable and repetitive xp mechanic threads came up with a New perspective that had not been argued and dismissed a hundred times before, the obsidians might consider changes for the Next game, but not only has we seen no such new info, but it still wouldn't be a matter o' votes. HA! Good Fun!

is not a matter o' compromise regarding argument, but a recognition o' definitions. can't have a meaningful debate unless one can agree on basic definitions. duh. HA! Good Fun!

He'd just had his wizard cast "Grease" you see, and... it is possible that the build iteration feargus and their QA is using is a bit more refined than what we are getting with backer beta. one almost needs to assume that the beta in the hands o' QA is more refined or else we is very much dismayed by the certitude o' a december (or pre-december) release. that is unless the already-in-development expansion is being viewed by obsidian as a kinda super-patch for PoE. 'course, such a perspective would require substantial cynicism on our part, and our reputation is for assuming sunshine and rainbows, yes? HA! Good Fun!

sorry mc, but it kinda is binary. a primary value o' quest/task is that it avoids balancing. if you create categories that include kill/combat and quest and whatever, you has invalidated the point o' quest/task. you has necessarily reintroduced balancing. so, get with the program private joker. you may not like quest xp, but don't pretend that the debate is as difficult to grasp or mutable as you pretend. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68043-do-you-want-experience-from-combat/?p=1496598 HA! Good Fun!

Cheers, but I am pretty unoptimistic about any changes to UI screens other than the stash window becoming larger, nevertheless I will fight to the bitter end! am admitting that we believe that many o' the "essential" changes we had hoped for from PoE will now be part o' the paid-for expansion that is s'posed already in development. why do improvements for free when you can squeeze a few extra bucks outta fans to make things right? HA! Good Fun!

You and me both, I love the P&P game, and have wanted to play a video game set in that world. Sadly Headfirst (CALL OF CTHULHU: DARK CORNERS OF THE EARTH) are the only developer I know got the license to make a video game of Deadlands and they didn't last long enough to complete it. deadlands setting is something we like a great deal, but magic system were kinda silly... and did we mention we loathe zombies? we would really enjoy a quasi-deadlands game, just not deadlands per-se. really, the magic system were just too clunky. we did a short-lived pnp 3rd edition gurps quasi version o' a deadlands-like setting back in the 90s... had fun with it, but we used magic to explain how native americans/indians were not necessarily all driven back onto reservations, and the african black shamans had sent prospective slavers packing, eliminating the triple trade... we had a couple o' black players in our pnp group and we knew they didn't want their characters to be treated like second-class citizens, so we made appropriate adjustments. worked pretty well. HA! Good Fun!

I would not discripe rpgCodex as the "trendy hive-mind of gaming journalism" rpgcodex opinions... wouldn't call 'em trendy, no. antisemitic and frequently racist? yeah. polarized to an absurd degree? yeah. over inflated opinion o' their significance? yeah. is a funny little gag site where the contributors is the only folks who don't seem to get the joke. HA! Good Fun!

got an mfa in english and everything. go figure. HA! Good Fun! To bad you don't use it, seriously your posts are painful to read. I honestly don't know what half your arguments are about because I don't bother reading them. Gromnir, on the other hand, feels complete justified in dismissing half your arguments only after reading them. what does that say 'bout your character compared to ours? we wonder. "The ingenuity is in the details, of an imaginary dialect. Which is already incorrect, as it is an imaginary syntax. Also incorrect, since it exists on 'paper', consistently, not solely in the imagination. My best guess as a hack English major, is, it's a distinct mix of simple present and past continuous verb tenses, built on decapitating adverbs, wrapped in received pronunciation. Consistent reproduction can only indicate a greater comprehension of the official language. Also explains the schmuck detection. " that sorta perspicacity has no place on a crpg message board. HA! Good Fun! Doesn't matter it's all white noise. I don't know what your saying and now that I know it's an act I don't care. I tried reading your stuff because I thought that was you. funny how your inability to s'posed understand doesn't prevent you from making the snarky and off-topic responses... just meaningful ones. HA! Good Fun!

Have you read the D&D 4th Edition rule set? If not, I encourage you to do so and then see how you feel about this statement. d&d 4th and PoE is not as similar as you might suggest. most PoE classes does have a handful of per encounter abilities, but that hardly makes PoE feel like 4th edition. Wizards and Priests in PoE, for example, feel far closer to 3e or even 5e iterations o' D&D as 'posed to the 4e variations. PoE skill choices and spread is complete different in PoE v. 4e. saves, defelction, health, stamina is all different and all integral to the PoE system. you are overstating for effect, perhaps? we will observe that sawyer seems to have taken elements from all d&d editions to build what he believes is a better mousetrap... a better crpg mousetrap. am not sure he succeeded, and we would like to have seen more skills, but there is much about PoE that complete diverts from 4e as there is that is reminiscent. HA! Good Fun!

got an mfa in english and everything. go figure. HA! Good Fun! To bad you don't use it, seriously your posts are painful to read. I honestly don't know what half your arguments are about because I don't bother reading them. Gromnir, on the other hand, feels complete justified in dismissing half your arguments only after reading them. what does that say 'bout your character compared to ours? we wonder. "The ingenuity is in the details, of an imaginary dialect. Which is already incorrect, as it is an imaginary syntax. Also incorrect, since it exists on 'paper', consistently, not solely in the imagination. My best guess as a hack English major, is, it's a distinct mix of simple present and past continuous verb tenses, built on decapitating adverbs, wrapped in received pronunciation. Consistent reproduction can only indicate a greater comprehension of the official language. Also explains the schmuck detection. " that sorta perspicacity has no place on a crpg message board. HA! Good Fun!

got an mfa in english and everything. go figure. HA! Good Fun!