Gromnir

is not a false dilemma. do you know what is false dilemma? we said respec gives players an option to fix broken characters... characters broken through no fault of their own. we did not offer a choice between respec and a false range o' alternatives. for chrissakes, what is kids learning in schools these days? and pj is being willful obtuse... again. stating your experience to bolster (and in your case, to replace) an argument is a poor argument, since you had no actual argument. you have 30 years experience and never had to respec? HA! we addressed that. so what? so what you got 30 years and so what you never had need o' respec. as Gromnir pointed out before you, a Living Gm won't be available in poe. we observed that as a living gm we could tailor encounters and create house rules. those are not options in poe. you made an irrelevant observation and attempted to give it merit by telling us how much experience you got. you replaced an argument and instead gave us resume material. *snort* http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66210-the-possibility-of-a-delayed-2015-release/?p=1450898 and again, is a pattern with you. being wrong could also be part o' the pattern... though we do concede that you actual made relevant arguments in the other thread. still, you were clear wrong... in spite o' your certainty and experience. as for robbing o' consequences, we has covered that ad nauseum. first, you ain't established that robbing o' consequences is a genuine worthy reason to prevent respec. a player made a mistake and thought 1h weapons would be a viable weapon choice. 1/3 through the game they realize that 1h weapon style were a poor choice. and? what is the value in forcing bob to either restart game or finish game with a character he discovered after many hours were a fraud. the character he meant to role-play as a combat expert turned out to be a combat liability? in any event, a single respec robs very little, not that you has shown that anything o' value has been robbed... and who is being robbed in any event? is this pj paternalism? is you deciding for the player that they are robbing themselves o' consequences? in the alternative, developer bugs and poor crafted rules descriptions actual do rob the player o' the meaning o' their choices. what Bob thought he were getting when he put points in dex before 480 were not what he actual got. there will be many similar problems at release. is many people still confused about what various talents do. there will be folks who were robbed o' the meaning o' their choices. the goal o' obsidian is to get folks to buy poe and future games. frustrate players unnecessarily is not aiding in such a goal. does need wait for a patch to be released to fix a major mechanical error increase player frustration? yes. does starting game over after dozens o' hours o' gameplay 'cause the player feels they were misled by poor worded talent descriptions tend to increase player frustration? yes. respec would save the developers grief. respec would avoid frustration for some and possibly many players. so what is the actual argument against a single respec? HA! Good Fun!

our definition o' broken is necessarily subjective. is many character builds we would be content to play even though the rules descriptions don't match the actual gameplay resulting in a disconnect between our role-play choices and the actual character we end up with in poe. our level o' tolerance for such will be different than many other folks. why should we get to decide what is the threshold for broken? why should stun? poe is a single-player game. the goal is for the player to have fun. if the character they is playing ain't fun 'cause o' bugs or poor written descriptions or simple error, why should such folks be forced to replay some potential substantial portion o' the game when respec would be a simple solution? as for silent winter's valid suggestion, we has already responded: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70370-option-to-respec/?p=1568555 even stun ain't wrong all the time. poe is a story-driven game. as such, we suspect that changing stuff such as race, background or culture could be problematic. HA! Good Fun!

actually, we clear responded to your silly and empty appeal to authority. you had no argument save for a logic fallacy... one which you has made use of before today. we revealed the fallacy and the habit. a declaration o' victory is curious response, but am suspecting that is another one o' your canned responses in the face o' failure. regardless, discuss the topic, to which you ain't actual added anything, or... is up to you. but, since you need a review, we has pointed out multiple times that poe won't have a live gm, so your observations and experience contributes nothing relevant. HA! Good Fun!

But there's a gigantic difference, especially in a game like PoE, where your character is "the chosen one", where your Biography is filled out and tracked based on every choice you make; and where there will probably be quests and NPCs that react to you based on your class. To replace your character with a different one halfway through would break the narrative. Again, stop defending stupid modern game safety-net mechanics. A distinction without a point. There will be no broken characters in PoE. And the game already gives you difficulty settings in case you manage to build a weak character. So, what's your point? Oh yeah, I forgot who I'm talking to. You don't have one. ... is bizarre. we keep observing that pnp and crpg is different. yes, the inflexibility o' crpg storytelling and the lack o' a living gm/dm precludes re-rolling a new character as a viable solution to broken characters in poe, which is why we ask for respec. duh. once again, crpgs and pnp is different, which is why the solutions, while achieving the same thing (a new character build) is different. am baffled by the lack o' comprehension. and we needs laugh at your belief that there will be no broken characters. is this the first crpg you ever have played? between bugs and poorly written talents and ability descriptions and simple mistakes by player, many folks will get deep into the game and realize their careful crafted role-play choices were rendered meaningless. and we similarly chuckle at pj, the guy who, if we recall correct, wanted to bet money that the poe release date would not go past 2014 'cause he were also an expert on software development? got 30 years experience in that field too? *shrug* am suspecting pj ain't played many new pnp rules systems in his 30 years. sure, as we noted above, we use house rules and tailored encounters to deal with most broken character situations, but is more than a few rules systems, particularly new ones, that has led to woeful broken characters, AND there is no live gm in poe to tailor encounters and create house rules... which were our point. what is with you folks? HA! Good Fun!

depends. plot, characters and setting? they is gonna be complete different. however, am gonna expect sharing and possible evolution o' thematic development. am suspecting that playing ps:t will not be necessary, but am believing that having played ps:t will enrich your torment (2015-16) experience. you don't need read in dubious battle and of mice and men to appreciate the grapes of wrath. even so, am thinking to read all three leads, potential, to a different level o' appreciation. HA! Good Fun!

In your hypothetical, Bob isn't respeccing, his character is. Which is a rather important distinction, considering that PoE is a party based game where the player is controlling up to 6 characters at once. But your point (And Voss' point) is well taken. PoE is built upon the mechanic that there is a "Main" character. Therefore it's silly to cite PnP as any sort of analogy for that. But hey, lets not let faulty hypotheticals get in the way of our defense of stupid modern game features. actually, we already showed how complete illusory were your distinction between re-rolling and respecing. "respec and play from same place in the campaign. "v. "retire old character and re-create a character o' the same level who joins the campaign seamlessly at next town or wherever dm chooses. "pretend that there is a difference is silly... stoopid." recall now? oh, and note that pnp is not same as crpg is also funny since we already did so. your selective amnesia is becoming amusing. that there is no live gm to create house rules for a crpg. is no live gm to tailor encounters to accommodate a broken character. and *sigh* there is no live gm that allows us to re-roll and re-level and re-gear a new character and re-enter the campaign seamlessly. all o' which is very good reasons for adding respec. you up to speed? HA! Good Fun!

I see. In that case, PoE already has a "respec" feature. Don't like your Wizard? that's fine, get rid of him and hire a Chanter of the exact same level the next time you're at an Inn. actually, no, that isn't at all analogous. allow everybody in our hypothetical pnp group but Bob to respec? doesn't seem fair. Bob is still stuck with his broken character, but every other party member can be changed? ... you aren't trying very hard, are you? HA! Good Fun!

Correct. In that scenario we'll give Bob the option to retire his character and play a different one. We won't, for example, suddenly break the campaign by having the Gods/genie-in-a-bottle/Ring of 10 wishes, drop down from the sky and morph his badly built character into something new and improved right in the middle of the adventure. actually, that is effectively what we do. respec and play from same place in the campaign. v. retire old character and re-create a character o' the same level who joins the campaign seamlessly at next town or wherever dm chooses. pretend that there is a difference is silly... stoopid. what we don't do is force the campaign back to day 1 when everybody were level 1. we don't force the entire group to replay the exact same adventures and encounters for... what? why? bad rules, ambiguities, mistakes and other such nonsense is not a reason to force a complete unnecessary replay o' potential months o' gameplay... or days/weeks in crpg. HA! Good Fun!

take responsibility? ... it's a freaking game. you didn't get a girl pregnant or take out a mortgage on your home. your responsibility is to pay for the game... period. as a consumer, you have a reasonable expectation that the game will be fun. if developer mistakes and rule ambiguities result in your enjoyment o' the game being diminished, we could argue that the developers have a responsibility to fix the problem. is a patch a month or three from now sufficient effort on the part o' the developer? perhaps. what do you do in the interim while you got a broken character, or at least a character that doesn't fulfill your role-play expectations even though you read the in-game descriptions o' talents and abilities? for chrissakes, if this were pnp, and you discovered that the rules of a brand new system were predictably broken such that it made Bob's character horribly unfun for him, what kinda arse-bag gm/dm would simple tell Bob that he should man-up and "take responsibility"? the goal in pnp is no different than a crpg: we are playing the game to have fun. as a gm/dm, if we see Bob gots serious screwed 'cuse o' his character development choices, we ain't gonna twist him up and force him to keep playing a broken character 'cause o' some kinda misplaced notions o' fairness and responsibility. it's a game, but is not as if one guy at the gaming table gets declared the winner. we does what it takes to make the game enjoyable for players. as a gm/dm in a pnp situation, we can typical tailor encounters to overcome most shortcomings o' player design. if we can't fix by tailoring encounters, we create house-rules and make alterations. is any number o' ways a pnp gm/dm can make Bob's playing with a broken character a fun experience. worst-case scenario, if we can't fix problem, we allow Bob to roll a new character at the same level as the rest o' the folks at the table, and we continue playing. but we is talking 'bout crpgs and there is no living gm. if obsidian made a mistake with mechanics and Bob is constant failing reflex checks and dying disproportionate, obsidian can't tailor so is far fewer reflex checks. obsidian can't create house-rules on the fly to deal with the busted mechanic resulting in Bob's perpetual fail relex saves. obsidian needs create a patch, whcih takes weeks to months to reach the player, and the patch is likely to break other aspects o' the game. obsidian should take responsibility. is a game and we is a paying customer. we got no responsibility. obsidian has a responsibility to us. make fun. patches is a good start on taking responsibility, but a single respec would go a long way in diminishing the inevitable damage broken mechanics, rule ambiguity and bugs is gonna cause their paying customers. take responsibility? *snort* HA! Good Fun!

as an aside, we carry not only our maxalt with us at all times, but also a laminated card that explains to those unfortunate bystanders who understandably want to call 911 when Gromnir has a migraine with aura that Gromnir is not dying, having a stroke or insane. the aphasia freaks folks out something fierce, and they is mighty relieved when they read our card. had a migraine on a plane once and realized our wallet were in our bag in overhead storage. our migraine info card were in the wallet. we were too weak to retrieve the card. am lucky there happened to be a doctor on the plane who actual were familiar with our kinda migraines. she asked us if we had migraines with aura and aphasia as a symptom (we nodded affirmative... thankful that we were able to understand language at that point) and so no emergency landing were called for. emergency landing for a migraine? would we have been embarrassed or what? is now our practice to inform airlines o' our little migraine issue in advance. HA! Good Fun!

ever tried maxalt? we get the migraines with aura that include aphasia and few other other symptoms that is near identical to stroke symptoms... which is gonna no doubt become more o' a concern for us in a few years. we typical have a migraine every 90 days... were always within a three-day range for over a decade. as we aged, the migraines became more erratic, but not necessarily more severe... seems like we have fewer in recent years. even so, if we don't get maxalt in time, or the maxalt don't work, we spend 2-3 in a dark room (get extreme light sensitivity) wishing that somebody would shoot us and put us out of our misery. am not kidding. in any event, maxalt has worked for us. it don't prevent migraines, but if we take at onset, it has a good chance o' reducing impact o' the migraine. there is likely newer/better meds, but we started maxalt about a decade ago and it worked for us, so no reason to change, eh? HA! Good Fun! ps the first time we suffered from aphasia, it scared us something fierce. couldn't talk other than gibberish, so we thought to try and write but that turned out even worse. was in high school at the time we first suffered from such a migraine. we were talking with a vice-principal, trying to convince him that we were feeling unwell and wanted to go home, when we sudden started with the aphasia. poor guy were likely more terrified than Gromnir.

And the lies continue: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70418-is-it-me-or-baldurs-gate-look-better-than-poe/ I hate to be a nitpicker (ok that IS a lie. I love being a nitpicker) but the guy you linked us to is commenting on the stream of the game, not the game. And he even points this distinction out, citing that first tech demo he saw, which he thought was beautiful, and then saying that the latest stream looked ugly and bland by comparison. we will happily nitpick your nitpick. arguably, the link were to a thread. is the first post o' a thread, so given the genesis post criticism and your admitted nitpick, we think it is fair look at the thread entire given your own generalization: "I've not seen or heard of a single person, on any forum." is not difficult to read a few o' the posts in that thread and find a few folks that is critical o' poe art or who is specific finding individual ie games to have had superior art than the beta. now, to perhaps give stun an out, your ignorance is not necessarily a lie. stun did not post in the aforementioned thread, so is possible that this is the first time he has seen... so no lie. is also possible that stun hasn't seen, or at least don't recall, the dozen or so threads over the past nineish (?) months since the beta were released wherein similar observations were made. ignorance don't make a person a liar. even so, am thinking it is clear that stun's generalization were erroneous. most criticisms o' poe art we has seen is unwarranted, but that don't change the fact that many folks has expressed concerns about poe art when held up to the ie games standards. even Gromnir has noted that given the admitted limited locations we has seen in the beta, we preferred many o' the hand-painted maps/tiles from iwd compared to anything we saw in the beta. HA! Good Fun!

doing the right thing wouldn't be particular laudable if it were acting in one's best interest. do the right thing is noteworthy precisely 'cause it is a hard choice. hardy were found to be guilty. this ain't a particular ambiguous scenario for the nfl or teams. sure, hardy appealed and then sudden the victim, a former ****tail waitress, is unreachable... skiing in vail and such. even so, there were a criminal trial and a guilty verdict. virtual all teams passed on hardy, and a few teams even spoke publicly that their reasons for doing so were the legal/character issues. is rare for teams to speak openly that way on player character issues. am disappointed in the cowboys. given our extreme low expectations for jerry jones regarding player character issues, it takes gag reflex inducing events to actual disappoint us. HA! Good Fun!

building team character a player at a time, eh? HA! Good Fun!

so, you are gonna be a guy who gets paid to be a tree-hugger? somehow that don't seem to exact mesh with our impression o' gd. recommended reading to prepare for your job: we kid... sorta. genuine wishing you good luck, and if this don't work out, perhaps you can do pr for obamacare. HA! Good Fun!

if it will quiet vol, simple preface ncaa with this kinda thing: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2395735-ranking-the-25-best-players-in-the-2015-ncaa-tournament many o' the biggest names in the tourney will be playing in the nba next year. maybe more interesting is how many o' the best college players won't ever amount to anything in the nba. so post your brackets and reference scouting future nba prospects as the rationale for following the tourney and posting 'bout it in this thread. problem. solution. Gromnir is a problem solver. HA! Good Fun! ps we do realize that no reasonable solution will ever quiet vol.

a single respec, to account for the inevitable bugginess o' the game would actual seem to fix the problem o' our choices being robbed o' their weight. the rules mechanics, even for people who has followed these boards, is obscure bordering on incomprehensible at times. improved interrupt boosts interrupt chance by 15%. how? our interrupt value stays the same with improved interrupt, so where does the 15% modification come into play? we got no idea. there may even be a good explanation, but it don't change the fact that for many rules, we is still kinda guessing as to how they actual work. for a player who has not been following the game, many rules is gonna be complete incomprehensible and counter-intuitive. find out 2/3 o' the way through the game that a 1h weapon approach is horrible? also, in spite o' all the testing and feedback, many mechanic errors will become apparent in the coming weeks and months after release. our decisions should have weight, but due to bugs and rules obscurity, our role-play choices is gonna be thwarted in ways both minor and major. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70370-option-to-respec/?p=1566871 a single respec makes sense. we restarted wasteland 2 a half dozen times 'cause o' rule ambiguities/brokenness and unforeseen bugs... and then inxile fixed some bugs/mechanics which then broke our fixed characters. wasteland 2 also had an extensive beta. poe will be broken. poe rules is obscure. also, is a single player game, so why should anybody care if some random guy uses a single respec opportunity to game the game? hell, some o' the folks we has seen lobbying against respec is also folks we has seen advocating rolling for attributes, which is utterly mind boggling to us. HA! Good Fun!

That'd be damn awful. I've heard the aztec empire had a political enclave within their territory where'd they grab people now and then from their enemy nation Tlaxcala. Which is awful too after all. there were a professor at Cal, we forget his name, who advanced the theory that aztec sacrifice were the single greatest limit to their expansion in the region. approximately 1% o' the population were killed by sacrifice each year, which at the height o' aztec civilization meant that hundreds o' thousands were being sacrificed. for a pre-industrial society, that were, according to the professor, an insurmountable hurdle. HA! Good Fun! It's widely speculated that, while the Aztecs were pretty bloodthirsty, sacrifice was a political tool above all, used to keep their vassal states fearful. European accounts are almost certainly untrustworthy on the matter, as are those of the allies Cortez found among the Mexican city-states; it's also very likely that the Aztecs themselves deliberately exaggerated the extent of its use to quell dissent. 1% is a baffling and deeply improbable figure. This was not an empire that did itself in with its excesses. It might have been working in that direction, but it hadn't gotten there yet. william borah did extensive studies on the aztecs. his disciples at Cal went further. modern revisionism is always popular when it diminishes the scope o' human atrocities, but the truth o' the matter is that we, as a species, is capable o' doing great harm to one another, and the scale o' that harm is sometimes baffling. in the 1900s, many historians became dismissive o' spaniard eyewitness accounts and earlier estimates o' sacrifice. borah, and others, actual did the research and realized that the numbers were underestimates. one reason why the aztec empire were, according to borah and his sort, so over-extended in terms o' population even before spaniards arrived, is 'cause o' the ritual culling o' the population. http://f14.middlebury.edu/ECON0224A/readings/borah69.pdf then again, am certain there is historians and archeologists who also claim that borah numbers is inflated. ancient history is tough to find a truth. look at even more recent events such a the american civil war. historians actual have a goodly amount o' first hand accounts from the civil war, and yet those journals and letters is as bad or worse than the the eye-witness accounts o' the ferguson shooting-- no consistency. try and put together an accurate picture o' history while removed hundreds or thousands o' years is an art more than a science. regardless, and more on point, we will note once more that what modern audiences recognize as faith is compelling thematic fodder that is impossible with manifest gods who grant daily and predictable boons to worshipers. the talk o' what some bunch o' villagers living on the shore o' a lake in __________ some hundreds or even thousands o' years ago is complete irrelevant. most o' pj examples is irrelevant. the poe world has elves and magic and animacy and an impossible economy. is not rl. is not having a time-frame similar to our own because it is complete different. it also has gods that is manifest and active in the world, which has never been the case in rl. you genuine think that all folks in ancient rome believed that sacrificing a white rabbit at the temple o' _________ would bring fortune or fecundity or whatever? so what? that observation has zero relevance to whether or not modern notions o' faith is possible in a game or story world with gods who is active and observable and concrete. such observations also is irrelevant in answering whether thematic faith is useful story fodder for modern audiences. people throwing rocks at a lake? so what? HA! Good Fun!

That'd be damn awful. I've heard the aztec empire had a political enclave within their territory where'd they grab people now and then from their enemy nation Tlaxcala. Which is awful too after all. there were a professor at Cal, we forget his name, who advanced the theory that aztec sacrifice were the single greatest limit to their expansion in the region. approximately 1% o' the population were killed by sacrifice each year, which at the height o' aztec civilization meant that hundreds o' thousands were being sacrificed. for a pre-industrial society, that were, according to the professor, an insurmountable hurdle. HA! Good Fun!

exactly. when shakespeare wrote coriolanus, he were clearly more concerned about what were meaningful to his audience than what were meaningful to the romans o' the time period o' the play. and a midsummer night's dream has elves. whatever culture elves has or might o' had were completely irrelevant. shakespeare's elves and fairies had to be evocative to shakespeare's audience and not other elves. poe is an imaginary world peopled by impossible creatures and having ubiquitous magic. attempting to shackle the writers to preconceived notions o' what is proper in such a world is, at the very least, arrogant. what pj thinks aedyr or vailian notions o' faith should be is kinda silly. regardless, the game needs speak to cant and Gromnir and pj, and not to cavemen or aztecs or renaissance catholics. HA! Good Fun!

penicillin is also a modern invention. am kinda glad we have it. *shrug* still, pj misses the obvious that even the aztecs, who offered bloody sacrifice o' literal thousands of their own citizens, never had no genuine displays o' godly power to reinforce their beliefs. in crpgs, the player prays and gets magic spells. in crpgs, the gods do battle in the heavens and earthly realms, leaving blessings and catastrophe in their wake. not believing in crpg world gods is an act o' defiance and self-delusion. choose not to venerate crpg gods is possible, but to deny them is, usually, ridiculous. no faith. what a loss. romantic love and heroic sacrifice is also relative recent concepts. is many accusations that even Beowulf were altered by christians who injected a bit o' gospel into the oral tradition when it were finally put down on paper. we got a created world. is not having a relative time period save for in regards to tech... and even that is a stretch given the ubiquitous use o' magic. faith is no less significant in literature than is love. unfortunately, it is necessarily absent in a world where deities manifest themselves... genuine manifest themselves. HA! Good Fun!

faith is a powerful thematic option that is sacrificed if the writers choose to utilize deities that manifest themselves to their followers and display their power in a tangible manner. religion in the typical crpg world is extreme mercenary and rather dull. HA! Good Fun!

not so much a monk thing though, eh? whether is men who live a monastic lifestyle and likely garden and makes beer, or the kung-fu saturday movie matinee variety, "warpaint" doesn't fit quite so well. we get the desire for tattoos 'cause it is, more or less, supported by the mythology. got a dragon on left arm and tiger on the right? is cliché, but why buck the archetype, eh? the thing is, tattoos is permanent, unless you got it outta a crackerjack box. *shrug* stick something in the weapon slot that says, "monk," while still being unarmed. we suggested prayers/meditations/rites, but a rosary would work just as well. most o' the major rl religions got prayer beads in some form, so we can see something similar for poe monks that would feel appropriate. ultimately, doesn't matter too much the form. regardless, we get why folks would want unarmed to have same built-in upgrades as all the other weapon types. HA! Good Fun!

Meh. Soul Manipulation stories always make me roll my eyes and snicker, and feral is just what I naturally expect as the default state of anything under 16. context and delivery make all the difference. OK, that scene always just makes me laugh out loud. For this, I'm more concerned it is going to follow the trail blazed by BG2 and Irenicus, with ridiculous nonsense inexplicably involving large jars and no coherence with the setting or solving the problem at hand. one suspects that overcoming a god's penance is a wee bit more complicated. HA! Good Fun!

Meh. Soul Manipulation stories always make me roll my eyes and snicker, and feral is just what I naturally expect as the default state of anything under 16. context and delivery make all the difference. phillip pullman actual did a marvelous job with soul manipulation, though we will observe he wrote children's books. HA! Good Fun!