kanisatha

Same here. I broadly disliked the D:OS games for multiple reasons, but especially for the combat system.

Took a break from Witcher 3 to fire up Civ 5 for a bit. Now back to Witcher 3 and still loving it. I feel very strongly that a non-party-based RPG cannot ever be enjoyable for me, but Witcher 3 appears to be a unique exception to the rule. I guess in a way it feels quasi-party-based, what with characters like Ciri and Yennefer and others constantly involved directly within gameplay. An interesting way to approach a solo-play game.

@algroth, thanks for being so fair-minded. Don't get that from too many people these days. I'm one of those who absolutely loves P:K. But unfortunately I don't have the time to write a lengthy explanation of the many reasons why. Yes it had some early teething problems, not surprising at all for a tiny studio making its very first game. But they have been superb at listening to fan feedback and releasing patch after patch to fix and improve the game. The current enhanced edition of the game is very solid. P:K, along with the two PoE games, is my go-to game now for repeat-play among classic RPGs so much so that I no longer have much of an interest to repeat-play any of the IE games anymore.

Actually, you've said it right here. For me, immersion comes more from the feel and the world and the story rather than from gameplay mechanics. So that's the difference. And besides, I've never cared for the mechanics and rules-set of 2e anyway, so for me there's not much of any meaningful difference between BG1 and 2 in that regard. And, the EE has brought all of BG2's mechanics and various other gameplay options into BG1. But, you are also right in that at the end of the day this is all very subjective.

What for you is romanticizing for me is realism and immersion. Yes, believe it or not, I like that part of a game where I am just a tiny little pawn. It *is* engaging and fun for me. This is why I prefer playing BG1 over BG2 every single time, and, I prefer the early parts of BG1 over the later parts, essentially beginning to lose interest once I get to the city of Baldur's Gate.

This article brings up the possibility of replacing spell slots and spell memorization with something else. Lots of interesting (in a non-positive way) things in the article. https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/dungeons-and-dragons-6th-edition

If only. I shudder at the possibility we may end up with cooldowns.

I agree. One of my fondest recollections from playing BG the first time was how incredible it felt when I FINALLY got my first +1 sword. I suppose this all also fits in with Vincke saying that leveling up is too slow in D&D and again, "not fun" in a video game. So, both XPs and awesome items thrown at you like candy.

From one of Swen Vincke's recent interviews it sounds like spell slots/memorization is/could be completely out because it's a mechanic that's not "fun."

Seems like "Baldur's Gate: Original Sin" might be what fits best.

This might be what encourages me to try the game despite its first-person perspective, since it is combat that I generally cannot abide in first-person.

I wonder if Swen might be pursuing some new type of combat system for this game, something that is a cross between RTwP and TB. Something like that I might very grudgingly be willing to accept. But if it is a typical TB system, especially something like the utterly crappy combat system of the D:OS games, I'll be - very angrily and very bitterly - passing on this game.

It's called Descent into Avernus, due out this November.

That's a good article. But I still don't know if it will be TB or RTwP. That's what will decide for me if I consider it a true successor to the first two games or not.

Yeah and that is precisely the source of my unhappiness of Larian doing this. But at the same time, I am trying to be hopeful based on the facts that (a) another D&D game is already being made as a co-op action RPG and I would be surprised to see WotC greenlighting two similar D&D games, and (b) Swen Vincke said in a recent interview that he wants to make different kinds of games from what he has been making thus far.

Yeah I hope they're smart enough to realize that if you're making game #3 in a series you should not mess with any of the core elements from the first two games, which means it needs to be single-player focused, party-based, isometric, and have RTwP combat.

It's interesting you say this because just a few days ago Beamdog finally revealed that they did have a D&D RPG in development some time ago, including using Planescape in it, but then that game was cancelled, which was then followed by Dave Gaider leaving Beamdog. No further details at this time, but I suspect WotC allowed them to say even this much now only because Larian's game is about to be revealed and it's likely WotC killed Beamdog's game when Larian came to them asking about doing BG3.

Yes they are, but that game is contracted out to some other studio. This game is what they've been touting as their next new game, codenamed Project Gustav.

Yep, anything about the game that does not honor the legacy of the BG franchise would seriously piss me off. The game being turn-based would especially push me over the edge. In other words, to be good it needs to be pretty much everything that the D:OS games were not. But there is room for optimism for two reasons. One, Tuque Games has already announced it is developing a D&D game that will be a co-op action RPG. I can't see WotC agreeing to two new D&D games that will be essentially the same thing. Two, Swen Vincke in a recent interview was very emphatic in saying that he wanted to move away from the things he'd already done with the two D:OS games into new, uncharted territory for Larian, because making the same type of games was boring and uncreative and he wanted to be challenged and try new and different things.

Agree with pretty much all that's already been said. I would add that multiclassing is probably my most favorite change. And yeah, ship combat is not my thing (though the ship as my home base is great).

I've been wondering about Surviving Mars myself, wanting to try out a space builder. My concern is that even as I like micromanaging, I hate having to micromanage down to the level of every individual colonist. Any thoughts/feedback?

@Wormerine, P:K is getting an enhanced edition soon so you may want to wait for that. On D:OS, I bought the first game on sale and slogged through over 350 hours on it even though I really disliked the game, and especially the combat, just so I could say I really gave it an honest chance. You cannot pay me to try D:OS2.

Having a party with me (even if they're called cohorts) is why I loved NwN2 and hated NwN1. I'm continuing to slog through The Witcher 3 right now but am beginning to lose some interest ... and not having a party with me is definitely *the* reason why.

You should consider also picking up the Mysteries of Westgate DLC. That was so worth the money imo.

Clearly someone has a Death Star. 😉 Yeah me too. The bastards!