Jitawa

Well, I had the xbox version, so.... a patch wouldn't help me. Since I would remain SOL, I wouldn't take back anything I said (haven't really said much about them though). Lastly, in reference to buying KoTOR3 if it was released all buggy? Of course not! If they didn't learn from their mistakes.... why continue to support their snafus?

Wait for a patch...

Its a not technical problem. The games was working fine untill I gave the responce that the droid was going to the czerka corp. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, if the game stopped working, it probably is a technical problem... since most games don't feature "crashing/freezing" as a part of gameplay.

In many, many games you fill find, should you choose to delve into the code, elements of content that was left out. It's simply a matter of the design of the game's story and plot development being changed as development progressed. It's not necessarily a sign of cut material due to time constraints or anything like that. You're reading far too much into a very common occurance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is true, but most games also do a better job of keeping bits of content that was cut from surfacing in the current code. The sound files aren't a big deal, since you actually have to go looking for those. The droid planet lead-in, and unfinished Mandalorian leader bit were more glaring quest mistakes.

I was always amused to see an animal that had swallowed a thermal detonator... I mean... All you do is press the button and it goes off. The animal should blow up when I hit him.... Though really, does the average PC really have the time to gut everything he kills? It's more like.... hey, that animal has a rifle stuck to his back!

30-40 minutes, like clockwork. I've logged about 25 hrs in my current save game, but have had to replay large chunks of the game due to crashes corrupting my save game files, and have probably experienced well over 80 such issues already. For all you naysayers out there - stop it. Issues exist, as confirmed by the developers themselves (read quote above). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not a "programmer", but having knowledge of that sort of problem in product you release seems.... wrong? In a really bad sort of way? It makes me wonder if they were aware of problems in the xbox version as well, but didn't see fit to mention it. Because if you're OK with releasing a product that crashes frequently, what's some broken skills to you?

That's the thing, to begin with, they only had to get the game to run on ONE machine: the xbox. They failed miserably with that. Unplayable consoles game definitely isn't a trend either... the majority of console games that are, for all intents and purposes: bug-free. PC-games often have some bugs at release, but this many? Most games, say what you will about them, are probably playable after installation. Quake 3, Warcraft 3, American McGee's Alice, Wizardry 8, Baldur's Gate: 2... all these games played out of the box. Some may have had patches later, but they were all functional. I'd agree that they don't have to make the game work for us, but the consumers are entitled to a refund at the very least (unless you shop at Best Buy, where they assume all consumers are pirates).

Master FURY not flurry... FURY... not flurry Anyhow, I'm not saying that these are bugs in the PC version, I'm asking if they are.

Alright, let me put it this way then. Any way you look at this, it basically comes down to an opinion (if a game is "ruined" by bugs). So... I've played, and won TSL, more than once. I was really excited about the game, since I really loved the first one (which I still own). You can play through the game without hitting a bunch of gamestopping bugs (I would consider that ruining the game), and I was able to do it my first time through. I enjoyed some parts of the game, and was annoyed by others. Getting to know the characters the first time around, and getting to use some Jedi powers in new locales is nice. What irks me I suppose, is the considerable lack of polish on the game. This is a game on a console, console games are general put together pretty well and bug-free, since there's not much you can do with the game once its there. This game manages to be a big exception to the rule. Bothersome bugs: some of the Jedi powers don't work as advertised, the Force Aura line (same as the first game, defense and saves) gives no defense, Master Speed also lacks the defense bonus, and there are some other skill issues as well. How many games have you played on consoles that had skills/abilities that did nothing (and were supposed to do somthing)? There are quests that have lead-ins, but nothing happens, and other quests that have pieces existing, but you can't complete them. Conversations are glitchy, but even more annoying to me personally is lack of oversight in terms of continuity. In the first game, if you established a relationship with... say Carth, and tried talking with him later - he'd have pretty much nothing to say. Perhaps you could've hoped for more, but he wasn't acting out of character. All of the characters in this game show no indication that you've talked to them before for the most part. You can engage in the exact same dialogue at the end of the as the beginning, there's no change, and the characters reflect nothing in their speech for the most part (and this in a game which touts an "influence" system, which one would think would make for more realism than the previous game). Some things are kinda wrong with the game that aren't "bugs" really. The game is too easy: only the final fight provides any difficulty for anyone... strategy of any kind is never necessary (there are some bad issues with AI and your teammates though, so perhaps this is a good thing... or a programmer work-around?). Most people seem to be disappointed with the ending, in which closure is attempted mostly via text as opposed to some sort of "scene". It's short, though about the same length as the first one.... this is something that one would hope they would improve on though. All that being said, I don't "regret" my purchase necessarily. I basically had an ok time playing the game, but I was frustrated by the many issues it came with. To use an analogy: picture winning a car, but finding out it's A/C is broken and has numerous other "minor" issues... odd engine noises, squeaky brakes, a bad paint job.. and they can't be fixed (a la Xbox). You might still like the fact that you can take this car for a spin, but you expected something nicer. I conclusion, I traded TSL in for some preorders, but I still own KoTOR-1. Hopefully I've been informative, but only you can decide where your money goes... and if the aforementioned issues are enough to "ruin" a game for you...

Pick up the original, .... it's rather cheap now for the xbox, and it lacks the bugs. TSL is quite buggy (the PC version seems to have the most problems at the moment). I get the impression that alot of the high ratings reflect that the reviewers probably had an "advance copy" and forsaw the bugs they experienced being fixed by the time the game was released. That sort of sloppy reporting isn't a new thing, many reviews are based on earlier versions of a game. Some people are able to play without a bunch of crashing, but everyone gets to experience the wonder of broken quests, skills, and glitchy conversations. Just buy the original, maybe a "Game of the Year" edition of TSL will come out later with bugfixes (speaking of xbox).

I know the PC version seems to have inherited a fair amount of bugs, my question is this: Did the skills get fixed? Do the defense powers actually give defense now? Does Master Speed give it's defense bonus? Does Master Fury give the extra attacks it was supposed to? As a side note, did anything happen with the workbench/breakdown business? Does the bench use the repair skill of whatever character is using the bench to calculate component yield... or is it still only the PCs' repair skill that matters? If it's the latter, did they change the medical bench to the same sort of scheme (only PC's treat injury skill matters for breakdown, not current using char.)? Curious what all got fixed.

A would say a Sentinel with maxed INT, and the rest of the points in CHA and WIS would probably end up with the most dialogue options in general. A build like that should allow you to max most of your skills as well, which provides even more dialogue options.

The tendency of your attack modifier to become massively inflated, and the ability to mod your saber to an extreme degree make the choice of saber-forms kinda pointless. I never found them to make that much of a difference in gameplay. The force forms on the other hand at least had some pretty palpable effects, noticeable change in damage spread, better regen, etc.

I find it rather hard to believe that the publisher would actually forbid the development of a patch, but in any case, it's irrelevant. I have seen patches being released by companies without official publisher sanction, and all they had to do was label it an 'unofficial' patch. And anyway, if OE asked for permission to develop a patch on their own, without additional funding, why would LA refuse? Yes, I know LA sucks big time. That's not news. However, I can't say the same for Obsidian, yet. The question here is, are the people at Obsidian actually going to support their work or not? So far, there hasn't been a single developer post in the PC tech support forum. Are you going to tell me that they are not allowed to post there, either? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, I have heard of publishers "forbidding" a patch. It happened with Activision and a game called 'Wizards & Warriors'... that needed a patch pretty bad. When the patch wasn't greenlit, the programmers took it upon themselves to make a patch and have someone else host their "unofficial" patch. I remember thinking the politics of the whole situation were odd. Why wouldn't a company want their game patched? The patch was good though, fixed almost everything... dunno what happened to them since then though.

It would've been better plot-wise than K1, if not for bugs. As is, it's embarrassing. I think, and maybe this is just me, that everyone should hold off buying the game until they release a patch. Why pay people money for an unfinished product? If they already have your money, why should they bother patching? Wait and see if they actually fix the many issues in the game, which, from the review, appears to be xbox issues + all-new PC issues. Don't buy it till you get a patch. The game will be more fun to play through without bugs anyway.

This is vexing... I'd urge everyone to just wait till a patch is released before you buy the game. No reason to play the game half-baked... give it awhile, since you have the option.

I liked Torment better, but Torment really is one of the best RPGs ever made (BG:2, Wizardry 7 are other favorites of mine for reference).

You may trvialize my response if you like... it's no matter. For some the game was marginal, for some it was a waste of time, and for others it exceeded their expectations. And I wouldn't consider 35 as "old"... neither will you when/if you get there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I liked your post, for what it's worth. I also have been playing RPGs for what seems like forever (Werdna? Trebor Sux?). People normally take the time in these kind of threads to slam a game. A balanced response is refreshing. Take any game from the current crop of console RPGs, and you're bound to get a certain thing. There'll be a set of stereotyped characters (the brooding type, the musclebound solve-by-force, the ebullient optimist) and other standard combat types. You'll be saving the world, there'll be a cold place, a hot place, a ruins place, and probably a place in the sky somewhere. You travel in a line from beginning to end, and the "role" you play is mostly 'observer'. KoTOR I (and II by extension) offered games that break sharply from this mold. Mostly in that they promise to make your choices matter. Though you didn't have a world of options, I think most people really got into what KoTOR I ended up delivering. There were alot of things I liked about K2. I liked alot of the character interaction, how different characters would say different things if they were in your party at the same event. The influence/affection levels were a great concept too (they have those in other games, but they tend to impact only a couple events). The plot build on the main characters is great.. to see how the various Sith Lords, Atris, and yourself will square things by the end was something I really cared about as I played. Playing just in this order: Peragus, Citadel, Nar Shaddaa... you would be horribly impressed with the detail put into various locations. There appear to be more sidequests, and things to do. The bad parts end up tarnishing alot of it though. The obvious part is the bugs and lack of polish. How many console games (not PC) can you name that were released with this many outstanding bugs, glitches, hanging quests, and general issues? I can't think of one. While the character interaction was fun, it deadends early. You can resolve your relationship to it's "max" within minutes of getting a character with several of the NPCs. Plus, having said influence ends up having very little effect on the gameplay.. it only effects options within their own little dialogue tree. If I max influence or have bottomed influence, it won't impact how an NPC treats me later on. (there's the taking an apprentice business, but even if you turn someone to the darkside, they still favor good?). The plot withers and dies towards the end. Virtually no sideplots are really resolved, and you don't really see any of your groupmates after the last planet. The ending leaves something to be desired, but most people say that I suppose. Several planets were lacking in detail to an extreme degree (part of the sales pitch was X number of planets to explore), but areas like Korriban and Dantooine seemed to be really lacking (imo). The difficulty is skewed to the easy side of easy. Even on hard, there's nothing in the game that's particularly difficult or requires strategy. Changes like having all Jedi have the same attack modifier also severely messed up class balance. The game isn't a waste of money or marginal, but it definitely falls short of it's potential. For a game that could've been so much, what we were given was extremely disappointing. That's what I think gets people

The bugs had me very upset and frustrated. The sloppy dialogue/continuity errors, broken skills, glitchy and half-finished quests, and general poor performance of the engine. Need I mention the ending? That being said, I beat the game more than twice, and it definitely has it's moments. I don't feel ripped off so much as saddened by how good the game COULD HAVE been with more effort and polish. I think I got my money's worth in playtime if nothing else.

I respect the fact that you speak for the trees, but it's pretty much a moot point. They were unconcerned with bugs for the xbox release date, I see no reason why they would move the PC deadline if there are some bugs. It's a better situation for the PC anyway, they can just patch it later...

I beat the game 5 times without ever seeing the extra dialogue. I'm assuming the whole process can get glitched, but since it's "extra stuff"... I guess it's not game breaking.

Those aren't the only bugs in this game, but this isn't a "list" thread. Plooby commented thusly: ""I have played the game twice (well... almost!) and my game has NEVER frozen and I once played the whole day with only potty breaks and the occasional trip to the kitchen for more coffee. And the buffing skills don't work becuase your character is LS? Did they work for you DS characters? I don't what you are trying to say, but go ahead and take the game back."" I was simply pointing out to Plooby what the poster he/she replied to was most likely referring to. Force Enlightenment is a lightside power that has issues as well, since it duplicates Force aura and such, but I didn't mention it because Jarlaxlecq said he was disgusted when he started a character... so it wasn't a possibility. Anyhow, the blurb about the two skills was for Plooby's benefit. I'm aware the problems will be fixed in the PC version, and that's good. People are still buying the xbox copy new though - most major publications say nothing about bugs. So, if someone comes in here with only 4 posts and seems a little irate, it's no different than the onslaught of feedback here on the boards last month. People are bound to be a little ticked/frustrated/gipped. It's not like there's an outpouring of official news on bugs. Cut em' some slack?

The buffing skills he's referring to are the Force Aura line (the +2, +4, +6... tiered defense power) and the Burst of Speed line (move speed + & def, '' and an extra attack, ' and 2 attacks)... neither actually gives any defense bonus... For the former, that makes the skill worthless, for the latter, most like the skill for extra attacks and movement I imagine, but it still doesn't work as intended.

Suck? It doesn't suck, but it's not great. I'm assuming some things will be hammered out for the PC version. The whole thing is horribly buggy and screams lack of polish. Coversations are glitchy, quests are glitchy/broken, continuity is bad, skills are broken, animation skips/jumps, and so on. The game is ridiculously easy, if you can pick up basic concepts like "if your health gets low, heal yourself" or "equip the best armor you have"... you'll breeze through the game... no strategy required. The last boss is the only fight in the game I ever hear people complaining about, and I'm thinking that's only because they didn't need to learn the mechanics to fight anyone else. I beat the entire game unarmed and naked without using any force powers my second time through on "hard", and you know... it was skill a damn easy game. The characters have potential as entities, but it's never realized. You get to know them in your first conversation, and for most characters... you can exhaust your conversation options the first time you chat with them on the ship. The don't react to changes in the PC/universe/etc. Even if you were attached to them, after you wrap your little mission on the various planets... you get stuck with two specific NPCs for part of the ending, then you never see them again. I'd say they were trying to crap on player's connection to the other characters, but you really don't have one at that point. The randomly generated items are both good and bad. It's neat that the game can change on a replay, but then again.... most of the "rare" items talked about in the guide.. special Jedi robes and such.. can be somewhat scarce. Let me re-phrase, in 5 replays, none of them ever popped up. It's also entirely possible that you'll get jack squat in terms of items on a playthrough... Merchants tend to be poorly stocked, and there aren't that many places that seem to have "good" items. Several force powers don't work as described... that's really unacceptable on a console. Let's say, for the sake of comparison, some broken force powers (force aura, burst of speed, master fury.. (yes those actually are broken)) are actually abilities in some other game... say Halo2 (battle rifle, SMG, sniper rifle). Would you buy Halo2 if you were told, it's a pretty fun game, but several of the guns don't actually do anything... You might... since Halo2 actually had a problem patched over Live. But KoTOR2 for xbox will never be patched, since that bit of code was left out. It had the potential to be great, and wound up being a frustrating, short, glitchy mess.

I returned my xbox copy, I might get a copy of the PC if the bugs are cleaned up... I skipped the poll since it was irrelevant. The xbox people can't get their game patched, they should really come second...