curryinahurry

Barbarians can be a subset of fighter. Druids can be a subset of priest. Rangers can be a subset of fighter (or rogue). Ciphers can be a subset of wizard. I mean why do we need anymore than just the four base classes? True on all except Ciphers which are more in the psionicist vein (maybe even them). Personally, I wouldn't have more than the 4 basic classes and an extensive skill & feat system to customize. But that's me

@ Semper I was thinking about this and wondering if the old fog of war was more driven by technology limitations of working with 2d backgrounds of the time. I'm thinking that there might be a way to use lighting effects to achieve the same result and have the look be more naturalistic with the Unity engine. Outdoors, in a wilderness area for example, the map might be fully lit but details and encounters could appear by proximity. Indoors, it would be more driven by line of sight and whatever light-casting devices the party is utilizing. But I really don't know how things like this work within the engine

Do they really need to have a "title" of their own? What if you can pick skills and feats/traits/whatever that can make your fighter do what a paladin does in traditional D&D? I'm probably hoping for more character build customization options than a larger number of traditional classes. This is what I was getting at with my post, agreed. I think that if people want honorifics, then Obsidian can possibly include them with factions (quests for a religious order re paladin type, or guild membership for bard type). But I wouldn't want Obsidian to waste a lot of time on these features.

A Templar type of Paladin can be a subset of the cleric class A Cavalier type of knight can be a subset of the fighter class Bards can be a subset of the rogue class There really is no need for an entirely new class

I think most of the against posters are reacting more to the name than the description. An artificer class that does what the OP describes would in no way be inapprorpiate technology wise as long as the devices didn't get too elaborate. It really has nothing to do with steampunk. I really like the idea of a non-wizard proto-science class that combines alchemy and technology. The only concern I have is that it may be that an alchemist or rogue kit class could pretty much do the same thing. That has to do with how character progression works.

If only there were more to being a fighter than swinging a sword. I hope there is. There will be more to fighters. Obsidian has pretty much spelled it out with their descriptions of Soul manipulation. I think some of DS 3 will find its way into this game; not in an action-y way, but in how classes can have powers and abilities that can do more than the class stereotypes.

Think of alchemy or crafting of various contraptions/ tech if they're in the game...flash bombs that blind or stun, flasks that can create tar pools that slow, etc. I was never a fan of trap spamming, but that is possible as well, I guess. There is no reason why a non-spell caster shouldn't be able to know arcane science either, which might lead to certain crafting options.

As do I. As far as backstab goes, it could be replaced by a mechanic where the rogue can select an attack form, like hamstring that impedes movement or precise strike that induces bleeding damage, or blinding that, well you know. The rogue's greates trait has always been flexibility and it sounds like PE will keep that tradition alive, so what I would like to have is the ability to create a character that can deliver damage in a multitude of manners while also filling a supportin role in crowd control, and all of the non-combat utility functions we have come to expect. The whole dex based fighter by another name has never appealed to me

I have a thought on a stretch goal at the 3 or 3.2 million numbers, whichever makes more sense to pay for it. A lot of people on the forums have been asking for deeper character creation and others have also been asking for origin stories or something of the sort in a prologue. The problem with the DA:O type origins for me was that they were a bit too specific, tied into sub-races, and also that they didn’t lead to any real consequences besides a few dialogue options. I’m not going to advocate for such origins. I do think another way of doing something that grounds the player and combining it with a character creation process could be a lot of fun. In the initial character creation, one could pick sub-race (Human, Dwarf, God-like, etc.) and class and roll stats. Then there would be an option for situational characteristics; first economic class (high-born, merchant, low-born, agrarian, nomadic, etc.), then one could choose from a set of regions (3-5 with descriptions) where one grew up. One could then choose early occupations, training, and education, what have you. This would in turn determine a set of starting points; 3 or 4 in total depending on previous choices. High-born might grey out certain locales, as could regions, etc. These choices would give certain additional points in various skills. Finally, one could start the game and it would plunk you down into your chosen starting point in a Candlekeep or TOEE type of setting where you could run through a tutorial and some simple quests before making your way out into the world and the story. These choices could then feed back in terms of who might know the PC in certain locations and factions that might seek his/her allegiance. Plus certain side quest options. This may be too much work to undertake based on time and resources (even at 3 or 3.2 million), but other games have done similar systems, and some version of this would really deepen the experience.

i dont see the problem... a warrior is obviously more resistant to blows than a thief or a mage since he is trained to be in the thick of it Yes, but this could be handled by having similar base hit points and giving larger bonuses to strength, constitution, etc. as the greater determinant. This also gives greater flexibility to character builds.

Its Rogue, you should correct before the snide comments start. Otherwise, good concept, I'll add some thoughts later.

Just like high-level D&D mages.... * ZING * except gandalf was way more badass duel wielding a sword and a staff I am hoping the game allows for a wide variety of mages. Old school mages that don't cast often, but when they cast you damn sure notice. Mages that are able to actually hold their own with a weapon. Even mages that are more of a steady stream of mediocre spells if that's anybody's cup of tea. This is actually something that I too hope for in the game and this thread maybe a good place for people to post ideas for how they might imagine mages in this setting. TrashMan's OP is fine as are his exmples; why not offer an opinion on what you might want in this setting based on your post? How about a mage/ arcane scientist that slings spells and can also create contraptions or make special rounds to fire froma musket for when his spells get depleted Or a mage/ alchemist that can brew potions to lob as crowd control and fire spells into slowed or held mobs Or a mage illusionist build with rogue skills that can cast simulacra type spell, hide inshadows or go invisible, sneak around behind bewildered enemies and deliver backstabs/ trips, cheap shots what have you

I don't think resting is going to be used in the way many people in this thread are thinking; or not only in that way. Resting can provide the opportunity to do several other things including brewing new potions, praying to gods for boons, fixing armor or weapons if we have degradation mechanics, etc. People really need to start thinking beyond D&D and IE; I know its a common frame of reference, but PE should build upon those games. That said, I don't like the OP's suggestion; it's a band-aid type of solution

I'd like to see hear someone like David Ogden Stiers (Icewind Dale narrator) do the narratives. Yes, that would be great...completely forgot he did that narrative! It was really spot on.

Also, expanded voicework, narrative? A David Warner type narrator at 4 mil? For backer levels, possibly an illustrated/ graphic novel version of Chris Avellone's novella by Justin Sweet or one of the other forum faves

In a way, that's already available. The two million stretch goal included Player Housing, which could be exactly what you want depending on how Obsidian deals with it. Yes, but the player housing sounds like more of a personal home+. I'm thinking more along the lines of BG2 and possibly adding in aspects of xroads keep. BTW, I'm not particularly in favor or against any of these personally, just what I've gleaned from community comments

New Game Plus if no one has mentioned it Adventuring option after main quest resolution Class specific strongholds; each with their own quests I'll add more as I think of them

Where was it stated that they didn't want resting? Not a challenge, just curious. To be honest, that would disappoint me, especially if they are going for an IE feel

That would make the mage OP...if we're talkign abotu a spell selecatio nas big and varried as in D&D. Suddenly the mage is super-capable of doing everything. Having an answer to everything all the time is not interesting. A "solution" to this is to severly reduce the total number and type of spells a mage can have...but that is a horrible idea IMHO, as it entirely kills the draw of a mage. No, no..the only way to have a mage that is as varried as a D&D mage is to place limitations on spells. Serious limiations. One way to put limitations on a magic user without having to revert to Vancian mechanics in the exmples mentioned is to have secondary skill or ability checks. We used to do this in my PnP sessions. It wasn't enough to cast the spell, you also had to have a skill or ability associated with the task to accomplish the objective; Cast spiderclimb? still had to have a high enough dex to scale the particular wall Cast knock? still had to have either a few points in open lock and make a DC check Disable magical trap? Had to know the spell used, have it in your spell book, have high enough arcane knowledge We altered base rules to allow this, but it worked well as we often didn't have complete parties. There are a lot of ways to make classes varied and interesting without defaulting to D&D Oh, and mages in D&D weren't perfect; they were too weak at low levels and too strong at high levels. That was part of the chall;enge of playing the class...but like a good deal of D&D, it always felt a bit random

Spells are exceptionally complex and consuming, so they are PRE-CAST. Think of those long, long rituals. Basicly, that fireball? You cast it before you got out of the tavern, inscribing it in your brain. It is there, waiting for you to release it with the final words/gestures. And a mage can only hold so many at once. Technicly, a mage could try to cast a fireball on the fly, but I don't think your enemies will wait for an hour for you to finish. Makes sense when you look at it like that, don't it? I dunno man, I guess it makes sense, but it still makes me feel like I'm a USB stick :D Indeed! Not sure if anyone else posted something like this as I haven't read through the entire thread but maybe we could go to a hybrid system. Certain spells could be pre-loaded via ritual like turning the ground around your party in all directions for a hundred feet into a sheet of ice slowing enemy movement, or a high level summons, and be cast once per day. This could occur in a camp mode like Darklands where one could also make potions or pray to deities for boons. Other spells could be cast on the fly draining a mana pool or causing fatigue. What I would like to see in a system like this, is no full re-filling of the mana pool or fatigue bar until resting, This would make us manage resources but would also hopefully prevent the problem of resting after every fight.

I only want to see clrics in the game if they can do something interesting with them that is neither a D&D cleric nor a D&D paladin. I really want this game to get away from D&D cliches and archetypes wherever possible or at least re-think them. Possibly if they create a class that deals mostly in curses/ hexes, plagues and other forms of divine smiting....more of a class that can lead to being either a divine champion or shaman/mystic. I also don't particularly like having multiple sources of magic. Since souls power magic, I think that divine should be more about boons, curses, summons, visions, sacred & profane knowledge while healing should be accessible in some way to all classes.

I would prefer the Odyssey to Oedipus Rex personally. The problem with tragedy in a game like this is that it will invariably lead to end game situations that will anger part (and if done well, potentially a significant part) of the fanbase. While Obsidian may have a willingness to tackle such tough themes, this might not be the right game, the launching of a potential franchise, to do so. Gromnir's point about sacrifice is also well made, I also think that transformation goes hand in hand with it. If we can power through the game without ever having moments where we question our actions or regret (even to a small degree) our decisions I will be disappointed. Likewise, if I reach the end of the game and feel that my PC hasn't changed in some fundamental way other than having more hit points or shiny trinkets, I will be disappointed. Chris Avellone stated in the posted Gamestar interview that the game won't be, "Doom-and-gloom fantasy" and will have emphasis on environments. This can lead to a journey oriented game, with the potential for the thematic elements I mentioned above. I'd be happy with that.

Finally someone who has some understanding of the way business and companies work. Actually this only describes one model for how business works. Many creative firms do quite well servicing a niche market. In fact, many of these companies can be incredibly profitable. I have no idea how wide a market Obsidian wants to appeal to with this game. It could be very likely that if they can fund this game with Kickstarter and sell another 100,000 copies upon release, a reasonable profit could be made; enough to pay for the next installment and really nice fruitcakes come bonus time. In fact, the case Ogrezilla makes may not be realistically possible. It could lead Obsidian down the notorious path of designing a game with, "something of everyone." This is usually the worst mistake that any creative company can make; not only because that game doesn't exist, but also because the pursuit of such a mythical creature will only disenfranchise their core audience. that is why you see so much opposition to certain ideas that make the plea for wider appeal.

The stuff your showing is a bit all over the map. Basically, what you've put up indicates that you want traditional high fantasy art. there is nothing really cutting edge or unique about what you've shown (or for that matter, what anyone else has). Not that there's anything wrong with that, they are your tastes. Some of the work styles I can see in the game, and some I think would be a poor fit. Anyway, I like the concept art and have played around with it in photoshop with colors etc., and I think that they will lead to some really nice finished character designs that have a realistic basis. I think that will create a nice juxtaposition to environments and creatures.

Did you take alook at the link someone posted to the artists website? There is one character development panel that shows several different options and a finished rendering. We might get a different art style for the game , but this is largely process driven. Also, I really would prefer if they develop here own art style for this game. re-treading old ground is not what I would prefer as much as I liked IWD