Pipyui

Does anybody tolerate autoupdate daemons? We shall have no such thing here. (I couldn't find the "kill it with fire" emoticon) I think the issue here is that people want an autoupdate feature, and some of us prefer manually patching. I don't think many would argue that an update button in a menu or launcher is a bad idea, I think we'd just prefer the game didn't update itself without prompt from / prompting the user.

Sadly you are correct. I remember trying to find Dragon Age mods and having to go through about 40 nude mods before I found something useful. Still better than the nudity and anime mods I have to sift through in TES mods.

I like an autoupdater, but I can't be the only one who isn't bothered by the thought of having to download patches manually? Maybe I've just gotten so used to mod management for Bethesda games that unzipping archives doesn't bother me anymore, I in fact enjoy the control I get from this. And checking the website for a new patch when I feel one is due is hardly an inconvience for me. Autoupdaters only ever work correctly half the time anyways. On the other hand, I suppose if you have a large game library (not me), autoupdating is fantastic. So in the end, I guess I've contributed nothing to this conversation. It's okay, I'll let myself out.

Successful trolling, unsuccessful trolling, who cares? This was fun.

I am very sorely tempted to take the pimped-out stronghold vote, but I'd also like just a few basic properties scattered around for convienience. Then again, I guess that's what inns are for. Excuse me while I go change my vote a minute... Edit: A little early to be ringing the troll bell, aye? Questioning about a topic doesn't necessarily infer trolling, lets see where this thread goes before deciding.

I'm pleased to see that people agree with my little pining for audio-visual continuity of ambient sounds. I truly had thought I would be the only one here who gave it more than a passing care, and that you all would belittle me for it (I'm very sensitive). So far as games go, I'm actually only a casual gamer so I don't have many samples to extract from, but the first game with good ambient sound that comes to mind is 2008's Turok. It managed to produce a jungle with a little more noise than just the omnipresent and looped crickets and birds.

Mcmanusaur may be trolling, but he hasn't been actively trying to insult people, so I'm ok with this. I've certainly been entertained by this thread so far. Maybe PE shouldn't be a cRPG, but an MMO after all.

The points you've made are perfectly valid, but I feel that critical success and failures that are completely tranparent give more fun to the player. When I charge an orc and accidentally impale myself on his sword, it's easier for me to understand that I've made a really bad roll, and not that the "system" has seemingly arbitrarily caused it. By having to calculate in all of the factors that might cause a fumble, and make it completely deterministic, I'm forced to question what I've done wrong with it, and when it doesn't look to me like I've messed things up I blame the system for cheating me. Sure in real life you don't just randomly screw up, there are factors involved, but if I have no control over these miniscule factors in game, it seems like they are arbitrary and artificial - only exist to irritate me. Plus, rolling means that no matter how awesome my character is, or how meticulously I work to eliminate extraneous factors metagame, I still have a small chance of really dropping the ball on things or doing them spectacularly. I don't want crits to be or feel completely deterministic, I like the random element involved in trying anything in-game. I'm not saying that stats shouldn't modify these probabilities (they probably should), but too many extraneous, superfluous, and otherwise meaningless factors shouldn't arbitrate completely whether or not I crit.

I voted ambivilence. I wouldn't use a NG+ feature myself, nor see much use for one, unless it was well implemented in the game. Touger enemies and all that, maybe some dialogue quirks to recognise you've played before, but even that's not enough to justify it. Unless Obsidian can come up with something really cool, I see no need for a NG+ option, but can't argue against those who would appreciate having it.

Dawnfall? What's that supposed to mean? Are you for it or against it? Thanks for the new word, though. It makes my brain cringe.

Why not just petition Obsidian to make an MMO ... about something else? I tend to think that making an MMO model of any good IP is bad mojo (Skyrim Online, anyone?).

Indeed, though this issue really strikes my interests, I'm afraid Bell has already addressed everything that comes to my mind regarding it. See what you've done, Bell?! In trying to incite this discussion, you've only helped in destroying it! No really though, thanks for talking with us. We get lonely here all by ourselves. I just wish I had more to add to this discussion now... somebody's got to get it rolling again, because I'm incapable of doing so.

I like this a lot :D we all know there are going to be Gods who meddle in what the P:E world does, Deity's will most likely obstruct our ways and toy with our character from time to time I imagine. 1 Dragon/Ancient Creature = as a Deity? With the question of Gods, will there be Demi-Gods? Heck, maybe said dragon/ancient creature can be in servitude of a diety, even against its will. The hand, sword, or voice of a god, so to speak.

If there are going to be dragons or some other sort of wise, ageless, powerfull creatures in PE, I personally would prefer they were fairly alien and unapproachable. I don't want to tame one, I just want to be humbled and awed by their knowledge and power in the game, rather than have them be just other bosses. In fact, I'd prefer I didn't, or couldn't realistically, fight them at all.

So there's a promance thread, why not a nomance thread? Chris Avellone obviously has some very loud opinions on this matter, does his perspective reflect any of the perspectives of the fine fellows in the forums? Although I actually have no particular opinions towards romance in RPGs, I can understand why some don't like it. Romance in movies are bad enough, and a little sour in fantasy books too. Emotional experiences don't always have to end in romance, despite what hollywood might believe. If a story is good enough, it doesn't need an ackwardly implemented love subplot for the sake of having one. And love is traditionally done in what some would say is a very demeaning way in video games anyway, and especially in RPGs - specific NPCs will love you, regardless of your character and actions. It's just a metagame of playing responses to please them. Very empty. How many of you dislike romance outright in your RPGs, and how many of you like it, but not in the ways it is usually presented? Should love exist exlusively in less interpersonal, even darker, forms as Avellone suggested - love for gods, ciphers obsessed with souls, berserkers and assassins finding a little too much pleasure in slaughter? Or perhaps you wish love to be parodied? Romeo and Juliet fell in love and died immedietly thereafter. A componanion makes obvious passes at your PC, and you are completely incapable of reacting to them given dialogue choices. You can pay for a night with a whore, but wake up with a debilitating STD in the morning and an empty wallet. Cynics unite! Or you know, attempt to make a cohesive force towards ending romance that will ultimately fall into shambles due to failures dictated by basic human sociology. Whatever.

I suspect what BasaltineBadger was getting at is that if the world were pieced together from the vanilla scenes, where does one fit in their own without interupting it? I should think an issue like this could be easily handled with a carriage service, or something. Otherwise, extra content entrances would have to be very cleverly placed on the original scenes. The trouble is this extra content wouldn't meld with the vanilla world.

I think this bothers everybody to some degree. I doubt there will be quests that your party can't handle, even if your PC himself isn't suited for them. For that regard though, I would like to be able to fail quests, either accidentally or intentionally. Even if this means just being able to drop quests from my journal (should I have to return to the quest giver to explain my failure? I don't know).

Huh, pleasantly surprised to see this thread make a revival. I know I've been pushing the whole "more incentives to spend, less requirements (maintenance costs) to spend" thing a little less than subtly. Maintenance costs are fine, but haphazardly throwing them around to increase spending isn't the right answer. I like where you're going, but personally think it needs to go a little further. Many RPGs already provide many of these services (albiet at completely trivial price), but they serve no purpose to the player besides novelty value. Carriage has a real cost? I'll walk. Food and rest? I don't understand either of those terms, I'm a restless machine. The other ideas not involving property, with a little creativity, might work, but it'd be a challenge to implement them without irritating players I would think. The short of the cosensus on this thread as I understand it so far is that property and some clever equipment maintenance are, for the most part, commonly agreed upon as legitimate money sinks; and that income needs to be significantly stunted. I'm still trying to ascertain what this reveals in terms of what players would accept and embrace as an economic model, though (basic principles behind money mechanics). Speaking of property... I'm loving the way you think.

Good point mstark. Actually, I hadn't even considered the proximity issue of wind and leaves, just figured it to be a constant on a landscape, but this makes more sense. And thanks AndreaColumbo for the link! I'll admit though, I feel a little like a hypocrit now, since I'm a recent fan of power metal (Blind Guardian, Rhapsody of Fire, Therion, and the like), and I'm certain the genre suffers considerably from dynamic range compression (especially Kamelot, I've yet to look into their new album, but I'm fairly certain their producers have no concept of dynamic range). Speaking of audio packs, there will be a Power Metal Pack, right? No? That's cool, I'll just make my own.

I don't care for the idea of stats varying with age, but NPC interactions based on age wouild be neat. Just select "young" or "adult", maybe even "elderly" if Obsidian has the time for all this, during character creation. Then people can call you "Sport," "Hey you there," or "Old man," accordingly.

Could you explain how it's even possible, if player is the only real source of action in the game? Some examples from other games maybe? Im realy curious about that. While not directly relevant to an IE-style game, there was a certain quest-necessary NPC in Oblivion who had a nasty habit of falling off a very tall bridge and dying... Ah, yes Oblivion. How I love thee, let me count the ways: 1. Jokes aside, I actually really liked Oblivion (I grew up with it, I'm a young`un), but things like that were really annoying. Trouble with a big open world, I guess. In Morrowind though quest characters were too easy to kill at my whimsey. Side quest characters sure, but main-quest characters should pack a little more pain (so long as it suits their characters, that is). Needless to say, this is especially necessary if I'm ever going to be traveling with them (don't need mr. bigshot being downed by his first goblin encounter).

I think as far as mainquest NPCs are concerned, I'd rather they couldn't just be killed on a whim. They shouldn't be immortal (Martin Septim is unconscious!), but they should be somewhere between fairly difficult to combat and almost inconceivably so. All-too-mortal quest characters were especially frustrating when you were informed of one being killed half a world away from you. Please, none of this.

Absolutely. Over-compressed dynamic range leads to diminishing returns in terms of quality over the long term. Fortunately most professional game audio folks understand this, though it does pop up now and again... Come to think of it, this also does much to explain why I so dislike this newage rap / hip-hop. Edit: Oddly specific request here, but for some reason the sounds of wind in leaves really strikes the romantic in me. Can such audio samples be reasonably tied with tree animation? A trivially specific request to bring up I know, but audio-visual continuity of ambient sounds would do much to enhance my immersion, I think, rather than just having sounds from nowhere. What do you guys think?

Glad to hear that Justin Bell has my bases covered. It sounds like he cares about just the sort of things that I do in regards audible ambience. Stick with it, Justin. Conservative music, dynamic range, and especially quallity ambient sound - I don't have to tell you that it really really enhances the experience of a setting, and is too often, and foolishly so, neglected. I'm already hearing PE in my head, and it sounds fantastic. PS: Interesting to learn of listener's fatigue. It actually explains a lot of experiences.

Pretty much agree with every point you've made up there, nothing more to add.