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So the VP isn't "Officially Retarded"? He just made a gaffe? Some people should learn what "Officially" and "Retarded" actually mean. To jump in to the pit of the gun control debate...... A shotgun is a good home defense weapon. Short range, powerful, don't need to be especially accurate. An assault rifle with an extended clip is not as good of a home defense weapon. Assault rifles are much easier to use to massacre people because they can fire faster than your average shotgun, extended clips are easy to come by, etc. Banning someone from getting easy access to an assault rifle will not stop them from killing someone if they want to, but will limit their ability to do so.

Custom spells could be cool, but if PE spells scale with caster level(preventing 3 sleep/fear spells that work on enemies of different levels) and stay useful at higher levels, then it may not really be worth the time or be very effective. Enchantment has already been promised as well, so we will probably get to create our own magical weapons/artifacts. I just hope the crafting systems are generally better than in D&D derived games and TES games.

I want to see the opposite. I would like to see someone who is constantly used as the human shield get pissed off at everyone after a while. After all being the guy/girl whose duty is to be beaten with weaponry would probably make one feel negative, especially if their were others who rarely get harmed.

While in some cases it this might be interesting, familiarity is still a big factor. And because we're generally most familiar with reality, a fantasy world must always uphold a certain degree of realism if it's supposed to be appealing. The most successful fantasy settings are those with worlds where basic physical laws like gravity apply, and with humans as protagonists, not insectoids. Of course tastes may differ on how familiar a certain setting is supposed to be, and it might be possible to adapt to even the strangest scenarios after a while. But we're talking about a game that's supposed to resemble the IE games. And while there is magic in these games, there is still a world outside of magic, which is similiar to the real world. If this wouldn't be the case for PE, it would be completely different from any IE game, and practically almost every other fantasy setting. Believability has more to do with logical coherence of a setting and a story I think. Yes, but is having HP being tied to level and class as unbelievable in a world where people can tap in to the power of their souls to accomplish amazing feats as people eating out of their noses and walking on their hands? My point was that the reality of the setting is what is important in determining what is logical, not the reality of the real world.

No it isn't. People are not the same in the PE setting as they are in the real world. They are able to call upon the power of their souls to accomplish amazing(would easily be considered supernatural in real world) feats. Something can be true in the PE world without being specifically stated, because there may be no in-setting way of stating "X works differently here than in the real world" because they will have no knowledge of the real world. Then you are seriously arguing for realism in the wrong game. PE is possibly even more fantastical(judging by the lore presented) than the majority of D&D settings. You have to put reality away to believe half the stuff that is happening in PE. Believing that someone can become harder to kill as they gain experience and master their soul is easily not the most unbelievable aspect in PE. You mean other than your proposal would make it hard to have balanced combat and would likely result in a) tedious low-level combat, b) unbalanced high-level combat, and/or c) reliance on resist x damage feats or items. To which you replied by stating I was incompetent at balancing and lacked imagination, but failed to show a system(with around 6-th level D&D spells) where your proposal works? Funny, I didn't say that "a spiritual successor must be mechanically the same as the IE games" I did point out that your claim that your proposed mechanic was not that different from what was in the IE games was false. I've explained that to you several times. I've even stated that the IE games had extremely flawed mechanics.

Am I the only one who thinks that these threads should only be read while inebriated.

No. But there are plenty of nude orc female mods, apparently. Because that is just so wildly arousing, boar-faced green women: Good to know people are working on stuff that matters. Who needs good gameplay when you got orc titties?

Oh another one...... Seriously, everyone knows that mainstream RPGs are being watered down, quite a few people don't like it. Also, Morrowind is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from what I'd consider a perfect RPG. I'd argue Morrowind is where the mainstream RPG slide towards actiony gameplay that fits more on a console than PC began.

Then why do you assume that something is not logical in PE if you can not know if it is logical in PE? Haven't the majority of your arguments been based on what real world physics? Real world laws that may not be true in PE? Yes we can all sit around making justifications why X should/should not be, we already did that with the dragons remember? But we are discussing a specific fictional setting where it is confirmed that people can tap in to the powers of their souls and magic is quite common. We also do not know all the laws of the universe for the setting, so assuming something is illogical in that universe because it is illogical in the real world isn't really valid. Then the problem is you, not the game or game lore. If it fits the lore of the setting, yes. No. There has to be suspension of disbelief to accept magic, different humanoid races, several fantastical creatures, etc. That is what EVERYONE here is trying to do. You want PE to be some realism simulator where low level characters can still be a threat to high-level characters and have spent the majority of this thread advocating for it. But those older games were STRATEGY games. RPGs have had separate HP and Armor/Defense since the first edition of D&D was written. Point out one RPG where HP is is Armor, Dodge, Parry, etc rolled in to one stat.

Now we're talkin'! *High fives Ffordesoon* Yea Fire Emblem definitely isn't your grandmother's SRPG. Chapter 3 was the first time I had to realize that i'd better start taking it as serious or more serious than Advance Wars (made by the same company which I totally didn't know). What happened (because I am a *complete* newbie to Fire Emblem) is I sent Fredrick in to mop up the top half of the map. He proceeded to get one-shot by the guy with the hammer then Sumia bit it to an archer then My Unit got crit and one shot. Bing! Bang! BOOM! You're dead! I generally *start* playing ALL of my games on Hard or above. I just hit Chapter 6 of this game and to think there's a Lunatic and a Lunatic+ difficulty makes me want to cry. This might be the only game I can't complete on max difficulty and I play Ys games as well. I really hope I get better at this game. I saw a developer round table where one of the devs flat out admits that Lunatic difficulty 'just ain't right' basically. I want someone to hold me... Edit: This thread is now about Fire Emblem: Awakening. Oh, and I bought a Gameboy 3DS XL simply to play this game. It was well worth it. Edit 2: We got any Fire Emblem veterans in here that can give us newbies some advice? Maybe I can be of some assistance. FEA is a bit different from most FE games, because now rescue(pair up in FEA) gives you bonuses instead of penalties and you can grind and class change, which can allow you to max out stats on pretty much any character. To make up for that, enemies stats seem to have been jacked up and the game seems to be generally harder than pretty much every other FE game. Still the basic rules are the same and here is some advice for you new guys(BTW welcome aboard!). Pay attention to the weapon triangle. Switching weapons can reduce the amount of damage and chance to hit, take this in to account when dealing with foes, particularly axe users. Keep the team pretty diverse. You will want a good mix of units to rely on. Avoid using units that will rot in the barracks. XP is precious, you do not want someone who you do not intend to use sucking it away from you are going to use and need strong. Heal early and heal often. Healers have no other way to gain XP than by healing(or doing other **** with the staff) and if you want to promote around the same time as the other units, you will want to heal as much as possible. Wait for promotion. While it is a long climb to get to level 20, it is well worth the wait. Those 10 extra level ups make a huge difference and if you promote too early(right at level 10) your unit(s) will get their asses handed to them. Conserve your weapons. Weapons wear out and new ones cost money, make sure that you don't waste your fancy silver weaponry on foes steel or even iron could have handled. Other than that basic advice, here is my personal thoughts on the classes. Thieves kick ass. They can promote to Assassin or Trickster, but IMO the latter isn't that great and the former is just amazing. Swordmasters are also great. They won't get hit much and can double attack pretty much anyone. Berserkers are almost always a better choice than Warriors. You will have to reclass to get one(Vaike can do it) but it is well worth it. Heroes are really good. They are incredibly well balanced and work well against pretty much any foe. Promote fighters into Heroes instead of Warriors if they can reclass into Berserkers. Paladins are much better than Great Knights. Great Knights aren't bad, they just don't work as well as a cavalier promotion. Also Generals aren't that great on most maps. Sages are great. I'd promote your Clerics/Priests into this instead of War Monk/War Cleric, unless you reclassed a physical class into a Cleric/Priest or the character had really high STR. Bow Knights are a good first promotion, but Snipers beat them out later in the game. Dark Mages are rare, but they can be pretty good if used right. Sorcerers are a little weaker with magic than sages, but make up for it by having good defense. Great Lords are good, but Lucina has better caps than Chrom. I'll wait for the DLC with the Demon Fighter Scroll in it before I endorse a final class for Chrom. Grandmaster is in the same situation as Great Lord. Wyvern units are pretty good, think flying General for promotion. In this game the alternate promotion is a but weaker but makes up for it by having higher speed, skill, and resistance. Pegasus units are also good. Great against mages and quick foes, by watch out for bow users and high power units.

Not in the IE games. Not in the NWN games. Not in Arcanum. Not in Fallout. Not in D&D. They have always been separate factors from HP in EVERY game that resembles PE. Show me one Vanilla Party-Based RPG that has HP combined with armor, dodge, parry, etc. How do you know that is true in PE? It could be possible that as someone gains more control over the power of their soul, they are able to take more damage in the setting. What is true in the real world is not necessarily true in a fantasy world. I'm not people. I don't argue for realism in PE because it is out of place in a fantasy setting where magic is as common as it is in PE. This discussion is about power of classes. If you want to constantly derail it to discuss your ideas, **** off and start your own damn thread. I played games with tons of different mechanics and enjoyed quite a few, but unlike you, I don't try to force realism-based mechanics in to a unrealistic setting.

Because Challenge XP isn't Objective XP. Objective XP is awarded by completing objectives ONLY. That means the player has to have an objective and is not rewarded with XP for dealing with random encounters or wandering in to a dungeon(or other area) for no other reason than they want to explore. Challenge XP is awarded by completing challenges. This could dealing with a group of monsters, getting through a treacherous dungeon, or completing an objective. It would also be method neutral allowing non-combat solutions to be as rewarding as combat. It also rewards players who get through a difficult random encounter with XP. I think incinerating this thread is a good idea, unless Indra shows up with his/her positron blaster.

LOL. And I love how Putin used Twitter, which IIRC was created by Americans. If the ruskis wanted to be rid of Western influence, you think that they would stop using things that originated in the West.

Didn't catch the "almost" did you? Except those stats have never been part of HP. They have always dealt with either reducing the damage taken or avoiding hits. HP has represented how much damage you can take before dying or being knocked unconscious in pretty much every system it has been implemented in. When it increases, it shows that the character can take more damage without being killed or knocked out. It is logical. Not REALISTIC, but arguing for realism in a game like PE is like arguing for a butcher shop to be vegan friendly. Sorry for using the "different" correctly. I lack the desire to see a almost static HP and Stat system implemented in PE. I don't typically spend my time trying to imagine how something I don't even want in the first place could work. I don't see you trying to imagine how the opposite of what you proposed could be fun, but I'm not going to criticize your lack of imagination. Because that is a little dickish. There haven't been any. Every game that has made me feel the PC has become more powerful have always had some numerical data to show me that the PC had indeed become more powerful. D&D level 12 actually. Look up some of the spells available to casters and the abilities classes get in 3.5E(What PE will be closest too) at level 12 and then come back and talk about power scale.

*looks at OP* *reads pages 2 and 3* Looks like the negativity cesspool is back... Obviously my suggestion on having Challenge-based XP was ditched so people could resume the bitching. Challenge-based XP is better than Objective or Kill-based XP because it accomplishes the goals of both. It allows the player to complete quests utilizing methods other than combat.(Best of Objective) It gives the player a XP reward for dealing with difficult random encounters.(Best of Kill) The player isn't punished for not fighting(Negative of Kill) The player isn't forced to do quests for XP(Negative of Objective)

I think Best Korea is too busy starving to launch an invasion.

What you are proposing is completely changing how HP is calculated and grows and focusing more on feats and skills than "stat inflation". By your reasoning EVERY game that has HP isn't that different from the average IE game. You aren't changing one variable, you are changing the equation for HP and removing common HP growth. X=Level, Y=Class HD, Z=CON, B=Constant base(feats, random bonus to HP) IE system: HP= X(Y+Z)+B Your proposal: HP=B(Z) or HP=B+Z Your system is almost completely static, while IE is level determinate. That is a big difference. Strawman. I have not ever claimed that several enjoyable games with deeply flawed mechanics are a "Holy Grail of perfection". I have pointed out that you claiming your proposals are "not that much different from what was in the average IE game" is false. 1.I pointed out that it was not similar to the IE games, I objected to it for other reasons. 2.I'm telling you that your statement that the mechanics you proposed were no that much different from the IE games is false. 3.I did not object because "it wasn't in a IE game". I pointed out that it was dissimilar to what was in the IE games, contrary to your claims. I objected because the proposed mechanics would not work in the PE setting. You're right, I don't have any "immagination". I do however have quite a bit of IMAGINATION, and imagining a static HP system in a high power game(like PE) is not pretty. You would either make low-level combat incredibly tedious, make high-level combat incredibly unbalanced, or rely on "Resist X damage" talents or equipment. BTW, if you call someone totally incompetent, it usually helps to spell "totally" correctly. 1.Stat Increase=Stat Inflation. "Inflation" literally means "increasing". 2.Special Abilities, Weapon Proficiencies, and new ways to utilize non-combat skills. 1.You keep saying it would work without showing us a game(with powerful magic) where it did work. 2.When did I say I wanted "tha na perfect IE copy"? 3.No, I said that in the PE setting where supernatural abilities/magic are extremely common means high power scales. Not that "Every high fantasy setting means high power scales". 4.In what game? Did that game have magic equivalent to 6-th level D&D spells? In that game did virtually every character possess soul powers?

^It looks like they are gonna rape that kid. Also, they look pretty ogreish, especially the broski in the green.

As long as the dialogue system lets me have full control over what the PC will say, I'm fine. I prefer a full text system though.

Apparently reading comprehension is lost on you. Well they did not propose something that almost the opposite of what was in the average IE game and then claim it "wasn't much different" than what was in the average IE game. They were quite upfront when they proposed something different and made no such claim, but you did. Point me to one IE game where HP is not tied to level or class. Show me one that does not have a focus on "stat inflation". You can't, because all of them had HP tied to level and class and all of them focused on "stat inflation". Your proposal is not similar to what was done in IE games. Strawman. I simply pointed out that what you proposed was not in ANY IE game. I have never objected to a mechanic because it was not exactly the same as in the IE games. Do everyone a favor and actually try reading before you start building strawmen. As for the mechanics you proposed, they would not work in a high fantasy setting where magic/supernatural abilities are very commonplace. Like the PE setting for instance. Static HP would not work out side of an extremely low power level game with no/extremely limited magic/supernatural abilities. In PE, you would end up with characters that either die too quickly and easily at high level, or extremely tedious low level combat that consists of hitting each other with swords for half an hour till someone drops dead. Focusing on skills and feats with no "stat inflation" would not work outside a low power game(which PE will NOT be) it does not allow for characters to get harder to hit or resist magic better(increasing attack and saving throw ARE "stat inflation"). The mechanics you want would fit in a low power game, but PE is not that game, and will not be that game. If you want a game like that may I suggest Age of Decadence? Perhaps you would like to kickstart your own game in a low power setting?

Is there a mod that fixes the terrible combat system?

Like I said in the previous thread, I think XP should be challenge based. You randomly encounter a group of bandits, you can pacify them in any number of ways, you get the same amount of XP. Also XP awarded for clearing dungeons. That way we don't end up with a ME2 like "quest only" system or punish people who like to wander around a bit first rather than do a mad dash to complete quests. On an unrelated note, I would like a few areas that have no quests tied to them that the player can explore. Dude where have you been? That game is probably one of the best FE released so far. Just look out for Chapter 5, that one can be a bit tough.

I don't know. Maybe you should pay a bit more attention to what you post. You did say what you proposed wasn't "that much different from your average IE game", then listed two things that were completely different than what was in the average IE game. Strawman and fake outrage? You must be a conservative or libertarian.

Here is my idea. A skinless humanoid creature that kills people and wears their skin in order to impersonate them. It has a photographic memory and is incredibly good at impersonation, allowing it effectively pass as a person that it has killed. It is not supernaturally adept physically, but does have advanced mental abilities. It would be likely to be adept at magic or have Cipher like skills. It would be included in a quest where the party has to find out who in a tavern/town is the creature it attempts to kill them in their sleep. If the party discovers the creatures identity, it offers them something if they spare it. If the party does not discover its identity, it attempts to kill them in their sleep. If the party accuses the wrong person, the creature does not attack them, but will kill one person in the area every 7-30 days.

Well isn't this thread a lovely cesspool of negativity? Anyway, I want challenge based XP. Group of bandits are encountered, you get XP for pacifying them, with a myriad of possible options to do so available. That way the player still gets a XP reward for completing difficult random encounters not tied to an established objective, but won't be at a disadvantage if they don't always choose combat to deal with them. Sound fair enough?