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I dislike the 2E ruleset quite a bit.

Well they do have an IWD module for NWN2.....would that count? IMO 3/3.5E/Pathfinder rules are much better than 2E(and translate into video games slightly better).

Damn you Prime and Raz! Now I really want to run through PST or BG. I can't bring myself to break from the MotB playthrough I just started though. BTW, is BGEE worth it?

You did that too? Anyways, I couldn't care less about EA, because I am not interested in any of their products. I will stick to kickstarter to get my fix, and major publishers can continue to make the cinematic swill they think is irresistible to young males.

Russians spending their days attacking people electronically? Very likely.

I think one of the reasons it is scrutinized in more detail in video games and comic books is that the female characters portrayed in those mediums are not real people, so one could see it as creating a standard that no real woman could reach. Which has some truth to it, if you look at the average large breasted anime girl or sultry female video game characters, you do in fact see physiques that are nearly impossible for a real woman to obtain, even with surgical enhancements. Of course(like we covered before IIRC),the problem is taking one extreme example of X and assuming every instance of X is like that.

NWN2 hands down. OC isn't great, but is pretty good if you are ok with some horrible trash mobs during the first act. MotB is an excellent story that surpasses PST IMO. SoZ is closer to IWD, but is pretty good if you like those types of games. Make sure you install Kaedrin's PRC if you go for NWN2.

Absolutely. Peoples experience with certain parts of X do factor in to their opinions and view of X. For example if I told someone whose only experience with video games were first-person shooters and sports games that video games were capable of telling great stories on par with novels and films, they would probably not understand where I was coming from, because they have not been exposed to games like PST. Well of course there are going to be differences in how armor fits male and female characters, but there is a difference from a set of breastplate adjusting to fit a woman's form, and a woman strutting around in a skintight designed to accent her busty form.

Not interested. This is more than likely going to be something like the Ultima game Bioware is doing.

Well yeah, but the majority of people are not going to follow the game's development. Most people are going to see a commercial during a TV show and form their opinions based on that.

Agreed. We could probably spend all week presenting extreme examples that support arguments that X is always childish. sexist, etc. without actually touching what the majority of what X actually is. Just to clarify, I don't mean that everyone who plays those games are necessarily younger(hell, I'm 21 and I can't stand them), just that they are marketed in a way the people marketing the game thinks attracts younger(14-25) males. Absolutely. Most commercials for video games are full of actiony cutscenes filled with violence. Just look at the ME3 commercials that were played during The Daily Show and The Colbert Report last year. Nothing about making hard choices, just a giant ship invading earth and a group of soldiers landing and fighting giant monsters. You could probably look at any commercial(which is what the average person will see) for any AAA game and see huge amounts of action but little else. So it doesn't even have to be the game itself is all action, just the commercial/ public perception of it.

In comic books, it is pretty common actually. Outside of Liefield's art(which is generally panned) most males are illustrated as very fit, but do not look like body-builders. Never got over two hours in to DA2, so I can't really comment on how the characters are portrayed. I would say the problem with the portrayal of women in video games is complete perception. You view Isabella as a complex female character who happens to enjoy having sex(who doesn't!?) but doesn't exist solely to have sex with the PC. Someone else may view Isabella as pure fanservice created just to give the player the ability to watch the PC have white-underwear notsex with. The same can be said of the whole "save the girl" trope. Some might view it as a tired but true motive for the protagonist, while others may consider it to be disrespectful to women because it means they are good for nothing but getting kidnapped. What really matters is the writers intention. Did the DA writers intend for Isabella to be a complex character or a digital sex machine? Did Zelda writers intend for Zelda to be a helpless girl incapable of saving herself or someone who has the misfortune of being the victim of an incredibly powerful villain and is needed to stop the villain? Well I don't really enjoy those games(hell I'm willing to throw money through kickstarter because I find them that bad) and don't play them so I wouldn't know. It seems that these games are being marketed to a specific group(younger males who play on console), who are perceived to appreciate a half-naked woman with large breasts over interesting female characters who are nuanced and have complex plot-lines. I prefer games like NWN2, where the focus is less on sex and action and more on characterization. I would recommend that those who dislike the over sexualization of wimminz in teh vidya gaems try playing something besides main-stream action games which seek to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

I know. Most of the female X-men fall in to that category, as well most female Marvel, Image, and some Dark Horse characters. I would say the same about DC, but ever since the New52 brought back 90s artsyles......well no.(I would go into a "Blame DC" for the overseualization/hyperidealization, but don't feel like posting it) Anyways, doesn't sexualization and idealization cross over? I mean almost every time an empowered confident woman is portrayed in fiction, they happen to be quite attractive. Hell men in fiction are generally closer to Ryan Gosling than some steroid swallowing hulk, so it isn't like men aren't sexualized at all. Maybe I don't play enough games(or read enough comics) where women are one-dimensional characters that just sit there and look pretty. Bioware does bungle female characters quite a bit IMO. Like Jack, who a male PC can cure of the crazies by (tenderly)putting it to her.

That is a very common problem. I played Arcanum on a friend's advice and thought it would be perfect but found myself terribly disappointed. I can't really put my finger on why exactly Arcanum just doesn't do it for me, but it just doesn't.

That would be quite nice. As many times as I've heard the false equivalency argument, I've never actually seen someone give an example of what an idealized(instead of sexualized) woman would be/look like.

Well this sucks. As an inhabitant of a state saturated with right-wingers, I apologize for any half-baked conspiracies that might come from Alex Jones on this matter.

I think they will raise somewhere between 3.5-4.5 million. I don't think they will exceed the amount PE raised by much(if at all). When you look at how quickly T:ToN raised the funds, you have to take in to account that it was promoted quite a bit before the kickstarter started, while PE was not.

From the title, I thought this was an Oby thread. Oh well, he will come in to rail against the imperialist oppressor west before too long.

Oy vey, putting AC right next to ME. Dem's fight words. I don't follow. He means ME is garbage. The way BioWare handled ME2-3 and its issues along with their fake choice system mkaes me inclined to agree. Fixed that for you.

My list changes all the time. The constants are NWN2(with expansions), Fire Emblem series, Fallout 2, and PST. I don't think I can concisely explain why exactly I like the games I do, but I tend to prefer games in which I am able to consistently role play a character how I wish, are challenging without being insanely unbalanced or tedious, or possess interesting concepts.

I don't know if we should be able to explore different planes in PE because I don't know if there will be different planes in the PE setting. This is kind of like saying a steel sword should still be effective near the end game when you have no idea if steel is 1) present in PE or 2) if present, viable against other materials like adamantium, mithiral, vibranium, and any number of fictional materials used to craft weapons in the game world.

Well, this thread won't end well. I'm surprised we already haven't had at least 3 pages of mudslinging or seen the English language repeatedly violated.

Why do you not think highly of Rand? I'm genuinely curious. First off, yes JFSOCC she was an athiest. That does not matter. Disliking someone because their religion or politics are different from yours makes no sense to me. It's like disliking someone because they cheer for a different sports team than you (unless they are Yankees fans, then it's ok ). Now to KP's point my problem is not so much with Rand as with Objectivisim. A purely objectivist society would literally eat itself. There has to be something of a social safety net. There has to be some limitations on capitalisim. I am a card carrying libertarain and I do firmly believe that minimizing government is necassary to maximize freedom. But cutting it back to nothing at all does anything but. A truely fair market is impossible to achive in a complete laissez faire economic system. There has to be ground rules and that requires a government to intervene and rein it in to a point. But it should be a silk leash, not the heavy iron chains we see today. Now my problem with the world today is that we have left that far behind. We are no longer concerned with ensuring equal opportunity so much as forcing equal outcome. The ulitmate result of this IS a loss of liberty. And the saddest part is people are voting their freedom away in every election cycle. Ahh, I think I understand. Your problem is with the philosophy itself, because it heavily encourages selfishness(not just in government action, but also in personal life) and discourages caring about others. Is that about right?

Why do you not think highly of Rand? I'm genuinely curious.

I actually prefer BG to BG2. 2E does not perform well at high levels(even though I love a good 'epic" level romp) and BG2 seemed to be lacking the sense of discovery that BG had in spades. YMMV I guess.