Osvir

Multi-Classing is cool and all but *shrug* I think a more interesting method would be "Multi-Paths" I suppose, within limitations of the Class. In essence, builds of some kind. A Fighter that got high DPS or a high Tank value, pick one of the two which you want to build towards. Or a Ranger that is a "Beastmaster" with 2 or 3 animal companions or a flat out Archer. A Wizard that has only Fire Spells, or a Wizard that has only Water Spells. Or even more closer to "Multi-Classing" (in a sense) that you could build a Fighter that has magical capabilities, such as being able to do some animancy or whatnot to engulf the blade in fire for a hit or two, but can not cast Magic Missiles. I think this method is more interesting than "Multi-Classing", though it might require more work I really don't know.

Everything XCOM should have been but will never be. You should check out these 2 as well One is Incognita by Klei (Man, Klei makes such awesome games!) and the other one is Halfway (which I think looks rather uninteresting but their Map Editor looks fantastic!). Incognita Halfway

This is dependent on how the Focus resource is handled, but I think this is a great idea from a gameplay mechanical perspective (and story/lore stuff too, even if gruesome). Specifically for this example: Scenario 3 which I talked about earlier: Your Focus goes down to 0 after every fight, but, if you keep some prisoners in your Stronghold you could use them for a Companion Cipher to "up" that Focus after every fight or for your main character. Or for other uses. Choices~ and consequences ofc. "Either I use this for my Cipher, or for a companion Cipher, or I use them as hostages, or for information, or to converse them to my cause" etc. etc. pick 1 (or 2 in some circumstance). Obviously, using prisoners for Focus for a Companion Character should (or could) "turn" them or their personality/goals. I know we've discussed the topic of "turning good Companions evil" or "turning evil Companions good". This Prisoner thing sounds like one method throughout the game. There's also the question of "Would the Cipher Companion, if good aligned, even do this to begin with... or would we have to force/sway/persuade them to do it?".

Correct Gfted1. Sorry, I spoke out aloud of how I want to play the Cipher A ranged Cipher would have a different tactical deployment. Hm, would be pretty decent in corridors now that I think about it.

Terraria 1.2 and Xenonauts. Terraria 1.2 made the game much better on so many levels. They made exploration much more accessible, and in my opinion it is great (a Map system, Ropes and more early tiers of ore). I've sunk in a good couple of hours into that. Xenonauts, still in Early Access but from what I've read the latest build actually made the game more playable than previously (V19), so my timing was well placed. Still some bugs here and there and the AI is fairly simple (if you play carefully enough). I play on the hardest difficulty and I felt that I did a couple of mistakes that are easily redeemed, now that I've got the meta-knowledge and a bit more understanding of the game's structure it'd be much more easy to go about. It's fun though, much more intriguing than new XCOM in my opinion.

Do you have a link which details this? I see this has already been resolved but I wish to go further with the topic of fleeing engagement as a Cipher. I think that the Cipher is essentially THE back row killer and Anti-Mage, so disengagement would be easier if it would turn to that. When an encounter begins, the Cipher goes off to destroy Archers, Throwers, Priests, Mages, Druids etc. etc. to get Focus. And when the Cipher has enough Focus he/she can probably handle 2 or 3 enemies at once (Mind Wave and Mind Blades). But before that I think it would be unwise to send a Cipher into melee combat 1-on-1. Maybe 2-on-1, so that the Cipher gets Focus. Err, before I go on with the next segment I want to reply to the "Attack of Opportunity" dealio, and that is "Mind Wave" which stuns the first enemy targeted and then (I would presume) knocks back enemies in a cone behind. Stun = Easy disengagement. Some Cipher tactics speculation: Outdoors Scenario (Open area): Furthermore, having your Cipher attacking the back row will put the Cipher in a position where he/she can make more use of the Ectopsychic Echo with a Fighter or whatnot as all of the enemy melee characters will be between the Cipher and the Fighter in this situation. And when or if the Fighter is being overwhelmed and the Cipher gets enough Focus, he or she can toss a "Soul Shock" on the Fighter for support damage as well as be out of range of the AoE. Indoors Scenario (Corridor): Here's where the Cipher wouldn't be as good and become difficult to position, unless there's some empty room or whatnot where you can "set" your Cipher before engaging in a battle, and then lure the enemy melee past that room and get your Cipher to "sneak" by to deal with the back row in the corridor. Though, Mind Blades and Mind Wave seems to be a great tool to use in corridors against melee types as well, it does require the Cipher to get that Focus first.

Haven't read the entire thread. Just felt like putting in one more opinion here: IE game style cutscenes are fine by me, it doesn't really take you out of the game and it turns into more or less a triggered camera event (the Gorion cutscene in the beginning of Baldur's Gate for instance). The chapter by chapter text and VO was nice too, but I think PE could even do without the VO and just have some nice music ringing in the background. That's my cents.

Then I have to ask, if you start with a "perfect soul"... can it get "shattered" during gameplay? Furthermore, if I start with a "shattered soul"... can it get "perfected"? In the IE games you could become a "Fallen Paladin" if your reputation went down enough, could that concept work for a similar thing like this?

I am actually curious about one very important aspect of "Focus" that hasn't been brought to the "jury" yet... Is Focus a resource that sticks around or is it something that depletes over time? Is Focus always 0 at the beginning of a fight or do I accumulate it over time? Scenario 1: Focus that sticks around - Fight 1, my Cipher gets 50 Focus - Fight 2, a little bit further down the road, as I didn't use any of the Focus related abilities earlier I still have 50. - I win Fight 2 without using any Focus again (just for the sake of example), and I reach 100 Focus and therein cap the current Focus Max. Scenario 2: Focus that depletes over time - Fight 1, my Cipher gets 50 Focus in the fight, no abilities used - Fight 2, a little bit further down the road, my Cipher has now 35 Focus because it is a resource that ticks away slowly as time progresses Scenario 3: Focus is always 0 at the beginning of any fight - Fight 1, my Cipher gets 50 Focus in the fight, no abilities used. When the battle ends, Focus goes down to 0. - Fight 2, my Cipher starts at 0 (because that's what it ended with after last fight) and works his way upwards again These are the only 3 I can think of. If you are considering Scenario 3 for the Cipher, then I hope there are some "Talents" that allows the Minimum Cap before each fight to "go up" as the Cipher levels up~ Scenario 3: Extended - Fight 3, my Cipher gets a level up and now the Focus will always go down (or up) to 20 after each fight. In this fight the Cipher got 40 Focus at the end of the battle, so Focus goes down to 20 (and stays there). - Fight 4, my Cipher spends all Focus this fight that he accumulates and is down at 0 at the end of the fight, but due to the talent or level up related ability that he attained, the Focus resource goes up to 20 after the fight. How is the Focus resource handled? EDIT: I don't, personally, mind either of the 3 (prior to Extended) as they all have different strategical management to them as well as different tactical implication.

I personaly really dont like this creature. If its spider-arachnid like it missing legs. And why should insectoind have high psychic powers? sounds akward and unbeliveable to me. At least make them bees like with hive mind or something like that. I personally think it looks very gracious, not questioning your opinion it looks noble and kind of "omnipresent" in a sense (as in "high stature"). I wouldn't be surprised i we could talk and communicate with these things in-game or even in-story. The Illithid that other people in the thread mention just looks menacing and evil in a "I'm going to maim you and then eat you in the meantime as you try to crawl away!! Mwaha!" kind of way. The Vithrack looks more like it would say "Mm I will paralyze you, myees, so you will at least be numb whilst I eat you, my lord". Here's a pretty messed up article on mind controlling parasites by the way (regarding your "insectoid" statement). EDIT: We also don't know if this Vithrack displayed what sort of "rank" it has in hierarchy, there might be some with more legs, heck this one might even be hiding legs (being a creature that deals with mind-messing abilities I'm sure it has some tricks up it's sleeve, pun not intended, apart from being psychic).

Yes. Positioning sounds really key, specially with the Mind Wave. I am curious if Ciphers will have any ability to "conceal" themselves somehow, because that'd be a great utility to take down grouped units on the back-rows (grouped up Archers for instance). So thus far (IIRC and some self-inserted thoughts/brainstorming/analyze): - Fighters soak up damage from multiple melee sources - Rogues deal most single-hit melee damage - Barbarians overwhelm, good at dealing damage to several targets(?) - Ciphers deal some single-hit and some magical-multi-hit damage As for Cipher build speculation and inspiration and question: - Purely close-combat, Psionic Assassin (Single-Target Build/DPS or Close-Combat Debuffer/Psionic Status-Effects) - Purely mid- to long-range (Wizard Range) Psion Caster (Multiple-Target Mind Mage) - Combo Is there a chance that Classes will have "Multi-Paths" (variations within their own Class, the example above) instead of "Multi-Class" (variations with other Classes)?

This class sounds fantastic :D I really like the Lore as well. Something that spot my attention was "Lady Webb". For some reason I am getting the impression that she might be a Vithrack in disguise. Or working with them "spider-like" creatures in some way (maybe she's manipulated?) or her name is simply inspired by the very creatures that kind of made the Ciphers into who they are (I am suspecting she is a Cipher and a V.I.P in the game). Very intriguing ideas. I've always been unsure of the Cipher, to be honest, but I was hooked all through this update. I too think that the Soul Shock is a bit odd not to damage the target in some way. Maybe it'd drain a lot of Stamina or something? Though, is it possible to cast it at an enemy as well? Dealing damage to everything around and to the target as well in such a way... something you've considered no? It also sounds like a mid-range ability when a Fighter/Tank is being overwhelmed somehow. You don't want any allies close by when it goes off basically. I also get the feeling that the Cipher is somewhat high-maintenance (I like it personally), moving back and forward on the battlefield a lot. Basically jumping into a fight, do some close-range damage then dashing back a bit to cast a spell, then into the fight again, back again etc. etc. because you don't want your Cipher to stand next to the Fighter in melee combat when you unleash the Soul Shock. Not that it is the only tool (Sounds like "use based on situation"), but it does give some insight into the Ciphers capabilities. Again, nothing I wouldn't mind, but is this what you have considered for the Cipher? (hit-n-run tactics) Liking it a lot. I haven't decided what class my character will be on the first run, time will tell (or rather, character creation and 5-10 minutes of playing each class will tell xD).

Yes that is correct. I agree, Obsidian should pursue their vision and I feel that many agree on that. However, that doesn't stop us from discussing what we feel about different things (such as "Immersion") regardless if Obsidian adheres to it or not. We are simply expressing what we think about it, are we not? And should Obsidian participate in this discussion by listening to it (reading it loosely) then maybe there's a chance that they find something that gives them insight or ideas which in turn improves their own vision. It is not demanding fanservice, it is sharing & discussing fan-ideas between people.

A "tool" for developers I suppose: Make the world feel real within itself, kind of like how our parents managed to make the worlds feel "real" when they told us bedtime stories with different voices. Or dressing up as Santa Claus during Christmas. Gamers are children and Developers are parents Doesn't mean the game needs to be all "PC" (Political Correct). The world needs to be believable, and that is why I am advocating the game to be designed primarily as Hardcore as it possibly can get (and I think Josh said they are designing it to be a hard game and then they'll tune/adjust the lower difficulties later), because I believe it'll be easier for Obsidian to tell an immersive and believable story from that mindset too.

Definition? "Imagination Cloud" - That vivid and imaginary bubble in the back of your head when you are reading a book and see the landscape, faces etc. etc. immersion is in a way an "awake dream" as it is purely inside the mind of the eye of the beholder wherein the imagination takes place. Immersion is fueled by the Players Imagination & the "Soul of the Child". Everyone has a little kid inside them who sees all magical colors and dragons, knights and swords. Some have an easier time to access this part of their brains and some have trouble to do it or can't do it at all because they either don't have the mindset for it or they have specific "triggers" depending on their upbringing. Some also lose their "Child Soul" as they grow up. Some examples: - Harry Potter: When I read Harry Potter and grew up with it, I could see Harry, Snape, all the magic and all of the things that occurred in the world of the book before the Movies were out. How? I imagined it. The words on the pages translated to my mind and took shapes and forms in the back of my head. When I really got into the book I wasn't even reading the words, I was seeing the words take place in a "movie-like" experience. - Baldur's Gate: Same thing. The characters on the screen became obscured by my own imagination, and I was the camera in my imagination, and I was much closer to the battle, watching it unfold as my characters were blocking attacks, dodging, leaping, rolling on the ground, casting spells in the nick of time in a way more vivid fashion than the models could ever do in the game. - Icewind Dale: Same thing yet again, characters having dialogues and interacting with each other where there is no dialogue. Helping one another out, bonding, questioning the implemented narrative. The characters become the story where there is no story. So: Immersion = Imagination

Hmm, this got me thinking...is it be better to include several variables(like one save, limited resting, etc,) and allow players to create their own "Ironman" modes than to create a certain set of conditions and label it "Ironman"? I believe it is. It is convenient to allow players to create their own Ironman or self nerf in order to make up for the game's mechanics which in a True Ironman would prevent the player from progressing. The advantage is that when the developers create an Ironman mode they have taken into consideration all of the game's working and are better suited to the task. They're probably the ones that know if its possible to complete the game in Ironman mode. I want the Devs to shake their fingers in slight doubt and closed eyes as they slowly press the button that compiles the final code, leaving them with the lingering question in their mind "Is this Difficulty Level* even beatable?" * Note: That's not Ironman thoughts but more or less "All The Hardest Possible Options Activated"

Exactly! One does not have to exclude the other.

Maybe.

First of all, the Project Eternity wiki source for Modes. In a discussion on Xenonauts forums (great game by the way, it's still Early Access but I recommend it to anyone who enjoys tactical turn-based games) I'm discussing an Ironman suggestion and what it means to me. No one agrees with me over there lol, partially because I'm probably intruding on their established community circle regardless... it made me curious to see what people stand on the subject of "Ironman" over here. What is Ironman to you? To me, in fact I didn't really know what Ironman really was up until 7 or 8 months ago. I had seen it but I had stayed away from it, or played it and not fully understanding it. I researched it and got excited about it and now I always play it whenever the option is available. Only 1 Save, Permanent Death, Save File gets deleted and so and so forth. In a sense, in terms of risks, it is the most realistic mode as there is no "turning back" when or if you make a mistake, in a way a la "in real life you can't ever save". To me Ironman means this: - No Auto-Saves (No Checkpoint Saves) - Only Save & Quit (Single Save File) - When you load the game, the Save File is Deleted - Save Scumming = If you Copy the Saved File and put it somewhere safe - Only 1 Life (If you make mistakes you tread on and do the best out of it), Rogue-like-ish - A true incentive for tactical, careful, strategical and slower paced gameplay because of real risks - Arcade-like-ish (Get to the final boss, die, start over from the beginning) What ticks me off about Xenonauts Ironman is, it is not the Ironman I researched or that I have experienced in other games. Death of my units is not permanent because I have a save file from an earlier state. It Auto-Saves after every mission you do, and you can Load the Save file whenever (And when you Load it, it isn't deleted). So Xenonauts is using a sort of "Light Version" of Ironman in my opinion. It is not too much of a big deal really, as I can manually delete save files (alt+tab and save file folder) to get the real Ironman experience I am looking for. The topic makes me curious though: Is this what "Ironman" is today? Auto-Saveman? How will Eternity play on Ironman? Will it Auto-Save every now and then like Xenonauts? Does Save Files get deleted when loading? When can I Save? Could I get more insight into this from anyone of the Devs? I'm also curious what the community thinks about Ironman here. The suggestion is as follows: If Obsidian feels uncomfortable at putting "No Auto-Saves", "Save & Quit" and "Delete Save File Loading" in the game, could it be possible to at least add it as an optional "switch" thing in a text config file? Default values (if Obsidian feels uncomfortable about it, which the Xenonauts developers seem to be): Auto-Saves = 1 Save & Quit = 0 Delete Save when Loading = 0 Ironman values (to me, which would have to be manually adjusted by opening the config file): Auto-Saves = 0 Save & Quit = 1 Delete Save when Loading = 1

ctrl+z works, it undoes the backspace. next time you don't have to redo an entire post Edit: you may have inspired a faction idea. It was a backspace that took me back a browser page and the "Last auto saved" function hadn't saved anything. Does ctrl+z work on that too? ^^

Socks should be its own entire thread! But jokes aside, that's something I've never seen before. Taking socks into consideration when gearing up (Not suggesting it, simply curiously exploring ideas). Is there any RPG out there that does? Sock mechanics: - X% Chance of losing one sock when resting -2 Morale - After X amount of use, socks gets holes and gives -1 Morale due to Irritability

I think I get the picture still. Real life magicians play a lot with the illusion of the eyes and mind. Tricking our perceptions in a similar way. Another easy test that you can do by yourself is to draw a stick figure on the corner of your notebook and then flick through all the pages, and you get an animation frame depending on what you drew. There's also the bird in the cage (a flat and round piece of wood), on one side draw a bird, on the other a cage (I saw it in a movie first, but I've also seen it irl). Get a thread and pull it through, then you're supposed to spin the wood fast and then you'll see a bird in a cage.

Unless there are ways for you to put the rolls more into your favor to avoid it as well as post-battle measures (getting a prosthetic for instance).

I'm still going to make (if that will be possible) a Ring Mister/Mistress Class. Just copy a Grimoire, rename it and re-write the description/conditions/triggers. Change some artwork. Same thing with some spell scrolls, rename them and re-write their descriptions/conditions/triggers (Make some 20-30 Ring Spells). Change some artwork. Done :D Ring Lord? Ring Duke? Ringer Oh my..... "The Ringer is an excellent magician with each Finger!"

No futuristic technology in Eternity (it's taking place in the equivalence of... mid 1600's? Something like that IIRC). Neither does it have any Healing magics (there is no Resurrection magic either, so if one of your characters dies they get maimed on lower difficulties and outright die on harder difficulties. It's an optional On/Off thing). Dead means "point of no return" in Eternity. * Just wanted to emphasize that I don't care much about the "realistic" aspects, but rather I enjoy the "challenging" aspects (not denying that more realism is usually hand in hand with more challenge). Sounds like a neat little balancing idea you've got there though I like it. EDIT TIME RAN OUT AGAIN (frrrrr!): Furthermore, if you aren't playing Hardcore mode, then your idea would still be a viable option for lower difficulty modes as well (such as your "Sacrifice Dexterity for a bonus in Melee Damage" example for instance). Maybe you want an extra damage output for melee and you are willing to sacrifice some Dexterity (focused minmaxing or whatever) Except on lower difficulty play it'd be more Player Controlled as in "Go to the prosthetic store and chop off your old arm and buy a new arm" whilst on Hardcore mode it could be "Go to the prosthetic store and buy a new arm because you lost your old one".