Osvir

LOL Ok. When the Human resources department cites a measurement like "Man Days" or "Man Hours", they are using a broad measuring stick not meant to directly equate to how many weeks it will take to finish an area, or a project. For example, if it takes 12 man days to complete development of 1 area, but you got 4 men working on that area together, then in real world terms, it will take 3 days for them to complete that area. That said, stop guessing, since you have no idea how Obsidian tasks out its staff for each area. Thank you, this was very insightful EDIT: And it also means my OP is wrong and I have no concern either. EDIT EDIT: Here's (devtracker) the BG vs BG2 thing btw: We have scaled our scope to our budget, which includes animation and everything else. The current wilderness area scope (specifically) is a little under BG2. The exact number by which it would increase would likely depend on funding. The goal isn't to turn it into BG1, but to hit that mid-point between the two BGs, so there's good exploration with solid content density. That's a response to how many wilderness areas are scoped to be in Eternity. And counting on this map my OP isn't too far off actually (I count 15 areas outside Athkatla, not all of them are wilderness areas though, does it count? If not, I think I'm counting 7... or 8?). Might mean that the Big Cities are bigger than what I'm speculating/calculating if that's the case it's pretty exciting to be honest. This is what 40 Areas could give us, purely speculating: - 15 Mega Level - 2 Big Cities (5 Areas each, 10 together) - 6 Wilderness areas - 3 Other (Village, Keep/Fort, Temple, w/e) - 1 Stronghold (How could I forget this in the OP?) Then again, maaaybeee I'm forgetting Orlan habitats, Elf habitats, Aumaua habitats and Dwarf habitats... so maybe 45 areas in the scope? Gosh I'm super curious!

It is just an idea (there are 3 more in the original post btw). I flip both ways. 15 Level Mega-Dungeon? HECK BLOODY YES!!! GIVE IT TO ME! BUT.... Does that mean we get like... 5 wilderness areas? HMMMMMM! *researches Brandon Adlers announcement in Update #67 and counts* Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybeeeeee.....? Do you comprehend?

Edit time ran out and I just want to say that this is indeed incorrect (unless I just didn't find it stated in the interviews, I was skimming it and looking quickly cus I wanted to find it fast), but I am sure that Josh has said (somewhere I can't recall) that they want the scope somewhere between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2... was it at the GDC presentation?

I don't support it as the correct choice, but it is a choice that I would support if Obsidian would choose to do it. Call me a fan boy or whatnot, but in reality I'm more of a "Curious George" because I'd want to see how it would actually be recieved. You know, when it is released and not in a fictional discussion. Why? Because I've never seen it be done before, thus the curiosity. The reason is probably because no one dares (most likely). It is still a method. Also, an analysis is not a proper analysis if the analyst can't see two sides of "the coin" (so to speak). Here you go, it's actually a very insightful read and research in analysis I've only gotten to Chapter 8, but I suddenly get an urge to re-read the entire thing anyways. Thanks for this brief discussion Stun EDIT: I am also not trying to reconstruct anyone's budget or planning. What I am trying to find out is where is Obsidian right now in their development in terms of how many areas they have in total and how many areas they might have at the end of the development. I want to understand why Obsidian wants more wilderness areas.. well, I think I know why but I want to document it as well for the community. Read this as I hope it'll give more insight into exactly what I'm talking about here. The numbers they have given us do not add up to the scope-projection of the game (Baldur's Gate II size). That is, of course, if they do not outsource (Which I think they are doing? But I don't know how to analyse or count that and haven't done any research on the matter either).

What?? You suggested a staggered episode-release formula whereas we do not get a complete game on day one. Instead, we get a piece of a game on day one, followed by another piece every couple of weeks for 3 f**king months. Good God. NO. No Illusion of "cost-saving" justifies that. And I neither have the time, nor the sanity to delve into the 10,000 obvious other reasons why such a model would destroy Pillars of Eternity outright, as well as any other semi open-ended, exploration-based game. I'll just say... No Thanks. Please go play your little walking dead game, in all its pieces, and leave Eternity, unfractured, for the rest of us. No. it isn't. They've completed work on the mega dungeon already. Your suggestion that they scrap part of the hard work they've already done in order to create more wilderness areas to offer us as a stretch goal is (almost) as nonsensical, unviable, and financially ass-backwards as your other suggestions. Can we put a lid on the alternative brainstorming excercises now? It's off topic anyway. The devs aren't asking for budget restructuring suggestions. I'm not asking them to do it ffs, I'm just throwing out ideas cus I'm concerned. I'm passionate about this project too Stun, and I want it to succeed as much as any other who comes to this board/community. I want the full game, but if there's going to be talk about add-ons mid-development I begin to wonder whether we'll get a full game or if we'll get expansions laid out on us post-release, or if it'll kick the development time back even further* I am also considering Obsidian and their employment in all of this as well, an Episodical Release could be beneficial for Obsidian as a Company and the people working there. But I agree, an episodical release for an RPG could be devastating too on many many levels (It could ruin reputations, which in turn could lead to a problematic future and more)... I just haven't seen it done (ever). You also didn't answer my question in the "Second Quote" either. How do we know that the mega dungeon is complete? It's a question Stun, it doesn't bite. I'm curious, and it makes me very excited to know that it is, if it is. But I'm only going on your word here, so indulge me in this insight please * I have said that I don't mind it if Obsidian takes their time with the game too, and this still stands. But I can't help to I also wonder if there are possibilities or other methods to add more wilderness areas in other ways that do not include a "release date = later".

Exactly aluminium. They are not the same size. I counted 2 maps a month from October 2012 to May 2014. That's 40 by the way. I pulled it down to 30 because Brandon Adler says in Update #67 that it takes 13 man days (that's 17 days, Monday-Friday, unless Obsidian works every weekend~ which I don't think they are) to get it to pass to "borderline alpha". "Small, simple area." I am not overstating this fact too much am I? And if Obsidian would release Eternity late 2014 (Winter), which I read someone saying here as a question, it'd add maybe 10 more areas to explore (again, I counted to 17 here, but I'm scaling it down because as you yourself say, areas are different sizes, and "Larger areas with more content take significantly longer to develop"). EDIT: But outsourcing should make it possible to create more areas faster of course. And I can't count those, but if Obsidian wants to be somewhere between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2, then I'd guess it'd add... (math math math)... something like 20 areas just from outsourcing to May 2014? Btw, Josh speaks in several interviews (Update #69, links at the bottom) that they want the scope to be somewhere between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2, and pretty much states (between the lines) that it's definately not going to be as big as Baldur's Gate 1. Doing some counting over at Mike's RPG. Baldur's Gate: - I count 69 Places on the map (and the ones below in blue links) EDITED IN: On this page (PlanetBaldursGate) I count it to 107 Areas~ Baldur's Gate 2: - I count 62 Areas in the blue links EDITED IN: And I have no idea how to count this on PlanetBaldursGate I know these are not anywhere near the exact numbers because I'm not considering all the sub-maps and such, we do know that Baldur's Gate is bigger in terms of exploration but yeah... just doing a rough estimate basically. When I count 1 area for Eternity btw, I do mean 1 area with content in it (Houses, Quests, People, Items, Caves, etc. etc.). If Obsidian wants to add new Stretch Goals for "more wilderness areas" I kind of guess that they aren't really where they want to be in their planning (planning which is said to be somewhere between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II). EDIT: So I am guessing they want about 60-70 (or as many as possible~) maps for Eternity. And if Obsidian are without outsourced help, they'd get 40 maps til Winter (December) 2014. With outsourcing maybe 30 extra maps (til December 2014). Outsourcing thoughts are purely based on speculation.

Are you being sarcastic? That's got to be the stupidest idea I've ever heard. The industry is already suffering from the horrible disease of micro-transaction gaming. The hopelessly tragic practice of publishers and devs milking us dry with bare-boned games that need a billion DLCs to make the experience feel whole. Yet you want them to expand on that nickel and diming garbage by denying us the ability to get even the BASE game all at once? Go away, please. And, PS: No. they couldn't. We earned a 15 level mega dungeon. Not a 12 level mega dungeon. And they're finished with it anyway, so this is a moot non-point/suggestion from you. First Quote: No, not being sarcastic, and I'm not saying "I want". I'm looking at how many areas they can make with their own numbers they've given us and I'm considering what sort of method they'd use for "more wilderness areas". Because "more areas" is either going to be "more areas expansion post-release" (DLC) or it's going to be "game is released later because more areas", the episodical is a middle ground (and btw, it worked very well for Telltale's Walking Dead). There is a third option and that'd be "scrap some Old Stretch Goals cus they take too much time and implement New Stretch Goals instead"-method, which is exactly what I'm talking about with the Mega-Dungeon. EDIT: Outsourcing would allow more areas to be complete quicker of course, more manpower but more expensive too (no?). Second Quote: Of course they could. I'm not saying that they should, but they definitely could. I don't say I want it either, but it is still a method regardless. I'm still looking at possibilities, analysing, and considering "How" exactly Obsidian would deliver these "extra areas" to us in the best possible way. It takes 13 man days (that's 17 days) to create an area. 2 Areas is a little bit over 1 Month. So the Mega-Dungeon is a development of a lil bit over 7 months in itself. Where did they say it was complete?

Can you create walkmeshes in Unity? If that is possible, wouldn't it in theory then be possible to paint a map (or google some picture or whatever), put it in Unity and add walk meshes into it and then importing it into Eternity somehow? Honestly, I just don't want environment areas and moddability of it to be a thing that gets thrown away because someone says "it's complicated". I wanna design levels! Bumping a thought: Could, you, Obsidian (The Company) create a "Tutorial" (Documentation) of an Area that you are creating for Eternity (The Game) and go through all the passes that you do to get it to completion for Eternity? Like I said in the previous post, it'd at least make it more understandable what is needed to create an area and possibly author one (and not necessarily on your own). It'd also give an incentive to learn.

Coming straight out of this thread with some thoughts... Would you be willing to sacrifice a couple of Mega-Dungeon Levels for more overland exploration? I did a bit of a head-count and some research in this post as well. This is a guesswork list by the way, but I think it could be close to the actual numbers: - 30 Areas in TOTAL - 15 Mega-Dungeon Areas - 2 Big Cities, 4 or 5 areas each. - Depending on the 2 Big Cities, that'd make 5 or 7 Wilderness Areas. So my thoughts are... could some of the levels of the Mega-Dungeon be sacrificed and/or tributed to Wilderness areas? Because as it currently stands, it looks like Eternity might be a Baldur's Gate version of the first Diablo or Torchlight game. Except that in Eternity's case the Mega-Dungeon is optional and not required to finish. This means 15 areas to explore, most of them 2 Big Cities (excluding the Mega-Dungeon as it is an optional thing). On top of my head, I can think of 4 solutions: 1) Donate 5 (or even 6) areas of the Mega-Dungeon to the overland exploration. 9 or 10 levels of MEGA-Dungeon is maybe not "MEGA" but definitely "Mega". 2) This World Map Dream Post (Yes yes self-promotion or whatnot but I haven't followed that thread entirely so I don't know if there are better examples) @Obsidian: If you make World Map Travel simple and interesting at the same time you might not need too many "Wilderness Areas". More Fallout-, Ultima-, and Darklands-esque in a way. 3) Get more funding for Eterntiy to be able to add more content. More wilderness areas and more companions. BUT... would this be wise for Obsidian, as it might push back the release date of the game further? OR, if the "more wilderness areas" and "more companions" does not push back dates but is added as "add-on" content... is that wise for the Eternity Experience? 4) Include the Mega-Dungeon into the story, make it not an optional thing but an "obligatory" thing to complete the game and story. Many games, in my opinion, have used this method with great success. Diablo only had one city and a Mega-Dungeon, Torchlight too and even Legend of Grimrock is using this method (LoG2 is rumored to have outdoors exploration). It is a popular theme that Developers seem to use. I think that "4)" might be the best solution in my little analysis list here. Because it allows Obsidian to use all extra funding they get (which might otherwise be intended for "more wilderness areas" and "more companions") and put it into Eternity 2 and to make Eternity 2 as big as it possibly can be, and at the same time do just what they want to do, add more wilderness areas and add more companions, except they'd do it for Eternity 2 instead of Eternity 1. What are your thoughts?

OF COURSE... I'd love more companions... OF COURSE... I'd love more areas.... CON/ISSUE! - Will the game come out later rather than earlier if this is the case? SOLUTION #1! - Release the game as intended, but the "more areas" and "more companions" in a separate development and/or separate release. Maybe even make it episodical release post-release.< ISSUE WITH SOLUTION #1! - Many people will finish the game in a weekend and might not play it much more than that. Adding content post-release in this manner is thus risky as many would have to play the game from beginning again to experience the new content added. SOLUTION #2! SOMEWHAT RISKY TOO BUT INTERESTING! - Let's say Eternity has Three Acts (as is common), leave out the 3rd Act entirely, make the 3rd Act entirely Episodical. Maybe split Act Three up in 5 "Episodes" even, and if you get the funds for more areas and more companions, you could squeeze in these areas and companions over a short period and at the same time work towards the games climax/ending. ISSUE WITH SOLUTION #2! - This is risky because that'd leave the Developers in an awkward position, basically releasing 2/3rds of a finished product first, and then resorting to an episodical finale. It could be bad... but it could be very interesting as well. It'd make these "more areas" and "more companions" be a part of the story rather than being in an expansion pack, it'd make a coherant experience for these new areas and for these new companions, they'd be part of the full experience rather than being something "tacked on" to the existing one. Imagine if Telltale's Walking Dead was released as a 2/3rds product (unfinished basically) and then they'd add more stuff later onto the original experience... the game or the experience wouldn't have been as good... but instead, they actually made 1/5th at a time, releasing little by little of the game, eventually we (the Players/Gamers) got the full experience. PROS! - More areas :D - More companions :D ------------------------------------------ Finally, what would be the best business model here? Fund Obsidian a little bit more and get the Eternity game a few months later because they need to develop more areas and companions? That'd be the most simplest method for a full experience... Or would it be better to release what has been intended and then release more companions and more areas as an add-on pack later and thus creating a separate experience? I'd like to avoid this if possible... Or finally... Would it even be better to release the game episodically so that all content can go into one and? I'm split, partially because my knowledge is lacking here on what would be the best method, but all I know is that I want a "full" experience, and the only 2 ways I know that can give this "full" experience is A) Release the entire game in one go, or B) Release the game bit by bit in form of Episodes (Note: NOT Expansions... I consider StarCraft II to be an episodical game btw). Tales of the Sword Coast is an Expansion, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm are episodes. Telltale's Walking Dead is also episodical (of course). Do you get what I'm trying to convey? Episodical Content: Release 10% at a time (Til it hits 100%) Expansions: Release extra content post-release (so, release 100% of the game, then add % to it) Expansions (DLC is an Expansion too) has the problem wherein you play the 100% of the game (if you are an early adaptor), then suddenly new stuff gets put into the game you just finished, making it feel (as a Player) that you've only played 90% of the game. Episodical content does not make the game lacking in any way, and if you are an early adaptor of it it just makes the experience even more awesome (at least for Walking Dead, even though I finished an episode in 2-3 hours or less and had to wait a couple of weeks for the next episode, it was a great experience)... but would it work for an RPG with only 12 character levels? A late adaptor gets 100% of the content from both of these methods btw, but in Eternity's case and for many of our cases, we are not going to be late adaptors, are we now? Here's how I think an episodical release of Eternity could work, if it has 3 Acts: - Release Date: Release only Act 1 Complete - Week 2, release 1/3 of Act 2 - Week 4, release 2/3 of Act 2 - Week 6, release 3/3 of Act 2, Act 2 Complete - Week 8, release 1/3 of Act 3 - Week 10, release 2/3 of Act 3 - Week 12, release 3/3 of Act 3 Act 3 Complete As you might notice, I just pushed the release date of the entire game back 12 weeks. Why? Because it'd allow Obsidian more development time for more companions and more wilderness areas whilst delivering the game partially in time. I want to guess and appoximate of how much time it takes for Obsidian to create an area but... I have no clue. So how much time does it approximately take for an area to finish? Luckily for me Brandon talks about it in this Update: this is how long it takes for a small area. About 13 man days (according to Brandon in that thread). Man days I presume are days that Obsidian is working (no weekends in other words), so that's 2 weeks and a half week of development for a small area. Doing a quick headcount using my built in calender (on the computer), I count about 40 areas that Obsidian could create for Eternity in the time-frame they've given us (I counted 2 areas every month from October 2012 to about May 2014). 40 areas is a stretch and is an exaggeration on my part, because I'm only counting small areas, but at least 30 might be a given(?). So let's do a count here: 15 of those 30 is no doubt Od Nua, 2 Big Cities are maybe 4 or 5 each (maybe more?), so we're left with... 5-7 Wilderness Areas? But having these numbers in front of me gives me some insight... if Obsidian would add 2 more Wilderness areas, that'd be 1 and a half month delay. If they'd add 4 more areas, that'd be 3 months delay etc. etc. unless, of course, they'd choose to either swap some previous Stretch Goals that take their time or release some of these added content at a later date. Additionally, they could make the Mega-Dungeon smaller (12 levels) and put 3 of those levels into Wilderness creation instead. You should make a poll about that as well Obsidian: "Could the Mega-Dungeon be smaller so that the overland exploration gets bigger?" or something like that.

I kind of hope this Kickstarter is not an Isometric game because it is getting a little fed... the only Kickstarter I'd like to see from the Isometric Perspective would be A) Eternity 2 or B) Eternity 1 Expansions... - Wasteland 2 = Post Apocalyptic Turn-Based - Eternity = Medieval Fantasy Real-Time - Torment = Surreal Fantasy Phase- or Turn-Based - Shadowrun Returns = Shadowrun Turn-Based (What has not been done yet?)* Hmm, interesting... only Eternity has Real-Time... regardless... carrying on... If Obsidian are choosing to do another sort of Kickstarter on a different type of genre or game that'd be awesome too (3rd person, first person, 2D or 3D, that'd be pretty swell too). But I think they could expand on the Eternity world by trying for some "smaller" budget Kickstarters such as "Eternity Content Kickstarter! 50 more areas to explore!" type of dealios... Now that I think about it... could Kickstarter be a medium for post-release content instead of DLC? I'd love to be a part of that Kickstarter Campaign from the very beginning too, now that I have a job and can pitch in a couple of dollars from the start (instead of "slacking", literally and figuratively). Being a part of the community in the beginning was more exciting that it is now to be honest, it felt like I had some impact and some inspiration. Now it's just waiting for the results (Eternity, what comes out of it?). The teaser video was great and it makes me excited to play the game, but it feels as if it has gone beyond the point where the community can give feedback or ideas, which we very much could in the beginning. The shape of the painting is done and there is little you can add to it. But back to the topic: What could it be that Obsidian is planning for next? I have no idea, but my bank card is ready. I just need to up my pledge for Eternity first. * Someone said "Arcanum sequel?" and I wish to say "Oh please no"... BUT... I do want to say "Oh hell yes!" at the concept which Arcanum is taking place in, namely the Steampunk setting. We need more Steampunk in our lives, admit** it! [goes off on a killing spree of all non-believers] an isometric Steampunk setting with party management and a big world would be awesome... but then again... couldn't that be added into the Eternity world too? If they'd make like a... "Bridge Game" (connecting PE1 with PE2, basically PE1.5)... because when Eternity 1 is out, they'd have an entire game with a lot of assets, and if they'd be able to generate another 4 mil for a PE1.5 game, they could put ALL that money into just making the game bigger, and they wouldn't need to focus on "rules" or "mechanics" or "combat" etc. etc. because all of that would already be done*** ** damit! *** Which takes me to the "new stretch goals" topic in the Announcements section. This has pro's and con's attached to it. Of course I'd love more companions, of course I'd love more areas... but would the game be released later rather than earlier in this case? Could they... you know... release these "more areas" and "more companions" stretch goal thingy's episodically post-release? Meh.... I'll take that in the appropriate thread.

@Semper: The LEGO example was bad I know, thanks for pointing it out so that I can continue my explanation of the example which I planned on doing So, basically what I mean (the meaning between the words) is that Obsidian have these more advanced methods and advanced tools that they use for creating maps and Josh says that their method is complicated even for them. Which I think is an odd statement of Josh to make, because it really feels like "Hey guys, yeah, we're doing this in a way that's difficult even for us so we don't know if it is possible for you". It's not encouraging, it's the opposite of it. Which is why I used LEGO as an example, because LEGO is one of the simplest building toys that exist. Obsidian is using some advanced LEGO, and I'm curious if it's possible to create some sort of "simple" LEGO. Simplicity is the theme of this thread. Furthermore, another pass at "creating more areas" could be a sort of Tutorial video made by Obsidian wherein they go through all the passes they make to, let's say something simple, create a "Template Room". No matter how advanced it is, if there'd be a tutorial video, maybe it'd be easier for more people to understand how to make more maps and/or areas.

Link to Page 3 of PCWorld Interview (where this quote comes from): I am curious about something that PCWorld didn't ask and that neither Adam or Josh answered, I also underlined and bolded something important that Adam said in the quote regarding modding. Will models (Characters, Monsters) be something that could be moddable? And what about textures? Furthermore, is there a simpler way that could allow for more maps to be added? Josh mentions that environments are tough and complicated and time-consuming for Obsidian, but is there a simpler way to make them? I mean, obviously hobbyists or fans do not need to be able to make state of the art top-notch areas like Obsidian are making. A child loves to play LEGO, but that doesn't mean that the child has any idea what they are doing with it or makes something super advanced with it. So when Josh says "because even for us they're complicated" I'm surprised that he even compares. It's like if an adult LEGO master who can make tons of stuff and has the imagination and skills to make super cool LEGO stuff tells a child "Sorry little child, but this LEGO business is just too difficult for you". Again, is there a simpler way for environments to be created and added into the game from a fan- or hobbyist perspective? For instance, let's look at WarCraft II (which has a great map-maker tool), it is pretty advanced too and that's not what I am asking for but there is a feature in the Map Editor which is great. Triggers that you can lay out, make an area impassable "Character can not pass through this area because this Trigger says so" kind of thing. Invisible wall stuff. I'll explain below. The "simplistic" idea I'm thinking about which could make it easier for hobbyists to add more content: A) Background picture, a simple picture you could draw in Photoshop perhaps. B) Triggers and borders or whatnot, make that mountain you painted be layed out with an area with triggers which says "Can't pass through this area" or something. C) Props. I know Obsidian is using them so why not be able to use them as a hobbyist. Are there simpler ways to make maps that might not be necessarily up to par with the quality of Obsidians maps but at least allowing more maps to be generated and added..? Imported or whatnot. For instance, could it be simpler for fans and hobbyists to be able to export an existing map and modify it, then import it again? Kind of like... say this is a fully developed map (for this hypothesis to work, this is from Update #39): But I decide to, you know, modify it a little bit so I... uuh... put a different texture on it and use some of Eternity's props (still an example). And then voila I could transform an in-doors dungeon into an out-doors forest area-thing: It's not meant to be pretty, it's just concepts on concepts. Thoughts? Question of the thread: How would a map making method be handled in the most simplistic way?

Not that I don't understand anyone not noticing them - because they're on-screen for all of about 1 second in a quick camera pan - but they are in the teaser trailer. I feel bad for the party Rogue* (the one with the hood) :/ he's about to get sliced underneath his armpit by his teammate unless he does a downwards or diagonal slash...** * Though I do not see a weapon so... unarmed Monk perhaps? ** I don't expect to see Eternity have that sort of detailed animation or similar though. I would love to see it but yeah ^^ when the Ogre smashes down with his large club it'd be awesome if the character would "react" accordingly instead of just "Oh I'm 0% Health, I'll lie down now". P.S. The ** is just a dream, it's not something I think Obsidian has enough economy to pull off but yeah, a realistic animation reaction to hits and attacks and all that would be awesome. Like, if the Ogre smashes down with his club, and it's a Graze, the character would perhaps take a hit but be knocked back too. If it's a Block, you'd see the character parry or something. If it's a miss, the character would dodge, and if it's a straight on hit you'd see the character get smashed down. I wonder when a studio will attempt something like this.

Good stuff! Impressions?

I use Google Chrome, I right-clicked it and "checked components" (Examine Components = Direct translation from Swedish. The correct option might be called something else, but regardless, it's the option at the bottom). There seems to be some lore-bits~ in case the page is genuine and Obsidians. EDIT: Basically "Show Source" or something like that I think. EDIT EDIT: Also, someone else revealed this on Page 4 too ^^ I just got excited and posted it. Let's call it an update on Page 19

It looks amazing :D

A heads-up what's coming our way is what I presume you're meaning, but I think the Update is a "heads-up" in itself as well. I personally like the mystery of not knowing until it is released. It's not about a heads-up what's coming. It's a heads-up if something's coming. The point of saying "Yes there's an update today" is for people who maybe don't want to stay up until God knows when just to be disappointed. I don't know about you, but I have to get up early in the morning and I don't want to sacrifice a good night's sleep every week. Thus, a heads-up would be nice. Of course it's not mandatory, but it's sure as hell considerate. I also like the mystery but sometimes it's just better to know if something's NOT coming. Disappointment is a choice. Expectation is also your choice, albeit expectation is not entirely your consequence. If I said "I'll be there tomorrow!" it'd be safe to expect that I'd be there tomorrow. And if I would not be there I'd expect, in turn, that you'd be disappointed. The thing is Obsidian never said "I'll be there tomorrow", they more or less said "I might be there tomorrow". I want to note that I haven't followed this thread 100% but I've caught snippets and read some posts out of the 8 pages. I understand, but I don't feel "disappointed", because I chose never to expect anything in particular to begin with.

Yes, but Health acts in a different way. Health is more or less "Life Points". What I am speaking of, and others I believe, is a Dynamic Long-Term "Stamina"/"Resource". Something that determines how long you can run for, how long you can stay up and how tired you are generally. I'd expect a person who stays up for 48 hours (2 days) to be kind of tired. I'd also expect someone who sleeps for 48 hours and stays up for 1 would be generally messed up too. Which is why a Long-Term Stamina is better than a Long-Term Health. Having low Health means you are in great peril, but having low Stamina simply means you are "out of breathe". The latter is still a disadvantage but not as much as the former, and the former is also more crucial in "surviving". Health is like the "pulse", if you have none, then you're gone. But being out of breathe after running for 3 days straight is something you can repair from.

But isn't that the point of the Update? To showcase stuff. If they tell us about the Update before the Update it's like having an Update about the Update. A post-Update about the Update. "Hey guys just here to Update you guys what the next Update is going to be". I am making it sound more silly than what you intend. A heads-up what's coming our way is what I presume you're meaning, but I think the Update is a "heads-up" in itself as well. I personally like the mystery of not knowing until it is released. The "situation" last week was exactly what? Reflect on it. How did you handle it in comparison to how Obsidian handled it?

Gave somewhat up on Terraria and got in on the Early Access of Starbound. It's great fun. Big, enourmous in fact. Has a couple of deeper mechanics, food and hunger, cooking matters more. Enemies hit really hard too, but it is fairly simple to fend off enemies still. Art style is different. It's Terraria but with a couple of added features and a different lore, and some removed too. Space travel and your personal space ship too.

If you work out for a couple of weeks you'll see results, it's not top of the notch, but definately results. A Level 1 Character would correspond a person who doesn't train or practice much. Level 4 could jog longer, fight longer, stay up longer, beat some baddies or choose to use guile and shadows. etc. etc. but even for a Level 4 character it would still get weary at night. Hypothetically, put yourself in the situation where you have to fight a guy, and you are well-rested and well fed, you'd handle the situation better than if it's late and you've been active all day, you'd be more tired. But when you're Level 8 you'd be more alert and hyper, stronger and more confident, thus have more stamina as well. Having more energy and health, you'd be able to take out baddies both morning and night. But monsters would also eventually get stronger and stronger as the game progresses, perhaps even scale differently day and night, so challenge remains throughout the game. New abilities costing more stamina. Related by reason why the character would be Level 1 to begin with (and have low Stamina): An idea that could explain why the character is weak to begin with psuedo-lore, Soul of the Watcher is sent into a soulless body, or combines souls (Kingdom Hearts-ish*) with some low level character which the player creates? So the Player could be a simple villager or farmer who gains the soul of a Warrior (Watcher). That's a method for origins btw. * For those who doesn't know Kingdom Hearts, Ventus, a boy who fragments his heart, lost in the void, Sora invites him and they join hearts.

You forget that enemies "scale" somehow and somewhat in Eternity, exactly how is unclear. I don't remember all info on this one but level scaling anyways, in some kind of way. Similarly, fatigue and stamina is something you can train and get better at, so by leveling up you get +10 Stamina perhaps because you've worked out and been active and doing stuff. It's how it usually goes. But I agree, there'd be new abilities and ultimately, even at highest level, abilities that cost much more than those initial moves. Which means you'd have to plan how to use them, do you use all of your multi-super strong abilities that costs most right away or do you save them for harder battles later ahead?

I think the opposite. Hardest should limit you to rest less, and easiest should allow you to rest as much as you like. In the former you've got to survive the day, so it progressively gets harder. A goblin or two that you smacked in the face earlier with a good laugh might later towards the night not look very fun when they are three or even four. In the latter it wouldn't matter because you could rest as much as you'd like and smack some goblins around as you please.

Same here. I think stamina is part of the new combat design, tied with per battle abilities and possibly used for those attacks (as I suggested before) In that I don't think Osvir understand the designers goals by creating health and stamina, or at least his suggestion doesn't appear play to either strength. If the intent is to encourage people rest more, then going by BG like system, it should be a timer based drain on max stamina i.e. after several hours start to lower max stamina by % down to 80%. The intent I have is simply to make resting make "sense". In any of the Infinity Engine games it doesn't "Rest for 40000 days if you'd like. Go ahead". In any of the TES games it doesn't either for that matter. What I am proposing is simply a Stamina that lasts for about a day. Realism. Immersion. I also want to get away from the "Rest as much as you like" deal, and have a "Rest Cooldown", that's just my personal opinion. Basically the idea is you can only rest once every in-game day. Now, the mechanics I am proposing would be that you'd have to rest early game, every in-game day. But as the game progresses you'd have to worry less and less about it and perhaps not even rest until every 3rd day, or even 4th day. But you'd only be able to rest once that 3rd or 4th day. As you'd level you'd get more Stamina, or Stamina would last longer and abilities and attacks wouldn't cost as much. Diablo 2 is a prime example, you can barely run at all early game, but later as you progress you never have to worry about Stamina. Another idea that pops up is a sort of "Insomnia" mechanic. Stay up for too many days in a row, you'd get penalties. Did I mention I want challenge and difficulty? Bring it on! Level 1 Character: - Enough Stamina for 1 day AND combat encounters - Rest, can't rest again when getting up Level 3 Character: - Enough Stamina for 2 days AND combat encounters - Rest, can't rest for a full day after getting up - Rest on Day 1, can't rest more on Day 1. - Choose to rest on Day 2 instead, can't rest more on Day 2. Level 8 Character: - Enough Stamina for 4 days AND combat encounters - See Level 3 Character Level 12 Character: - Enough Stamina for 7 days AND combat encounters - See Level 3 Character - Insomnia Penalties kick in after 4 days All numbers are just conceptual~ I also know what the design intention is of Obsidian, but I'm trying to rattle a cage and explore potential harder and more challenging methods. Something to spice up difficulty. Some of these ideas are also something I'm reflecting on myself for potential future mods, and this community is a great ballpark of people to juggle ideas with.