Osvir

What about items and equipment you wear then? If I use my shoddy shortsword of failure all game, wouldn't that become a signature to my character? "HAH! There goes Shoddy Short-Arm!" (which I have to say, amidst my brainstorming, is a pretty neat little bandit name ). The point remains though. Why would a badge be more "recognizable" than the gear I've been wearing all game? "Signature" items basically. Sounds like high-level stuff, or things you'd only reach at a high-level. We talked about Legendary Items and such previously, what if a Shoddy Shortword becomes "the stuff of legends" because I used it all game? Maybe it becomes a... Rockin' Shortsword or whatever. The more you use a weapon the more you... merge souls with it? That'd be awesome. NPC's suddenly reacting to your passing "Oh noes! It's the devil slayer!!" and thus NPC's project and manifest their own souls into the blade and transforms it into the "Devil Slayer", when in fact it's just a Shoddy Shortsword. This would require lots of work to do I think, but it would be awesome. "X Time Used Weapon = Transform into Legendary or Heroic Weapon, or Weapon of Recognition". As for scripting, well yeah, maybe. But it could also be as simple as: Badge Equipped = Activate NPC Reaction, the hard work isn't in the scripting but in "What happens next?". How exactly does the NPC's react and how substantial would it have to be? Simplistic? Complex? Etc. etc. Oh and sure, unequipping your Doomslayer Amulet or Badge and replace it with a Baron Badge (BB for short) wouldn't be as efficient in-combat but wearing it in a town, or at a marketplace, might bring prices down and people might be more friendly. Maybe a quest-giver that gave you the finger earlier is now more inclined to work with someone who is now the equivalent of a Noble (or whatever).

I just don't like the idea of having all the companions being broken by the PC. Can some people be manipulated/broken/enlightened to the PC's point of view, sure, but you also get people that stand by their view and won't be broken down. No matter how cunning/deceptive/intelligent/brutal the PC is. Yes, most likely. Which is why the fall is so much the more sweeter EDIT: Or the, ya know, rise too

I like all of those! But what if you plant an evil enemy in front of Cadegund, someone she has been tasked to jail or capture, in a non-lethal way basically, but you whisper and bend strings and excite her soul to do the thing she doesn't want to do. Or you simply put a hammer to the evil enemy's face and watch how everything Cadegund had fought for is gone to [null]. Can you play as the Emperor from Star Wars and mess with people on a deeper, soul-mechanic-ish, way? This is what I'm asking. Can I poison someone's Soul and make them corrupt? If you constantly put up a leg in front of your companions own goals, even how nice they might be, they might slowly begin to grow more angry and angry (annoyed really). And you all know what's said about "Anger" right? It leads to suffering~ Companions shouldn't be wishy-washy I 100% agree, but to change someone's mindset or their "will" (Good/Evil) should recquire effort from the Player or even random happenings could change it too, such as "Cool! A wicked sword! Edair, here, take it!" wherein Edair gets cursed and becomes a hellspawn demon in personality after wearing the sword for a long period of time. "The One Ring"-Complex. Narratively, Edair got unlucky, mechanically yeah sure, the Player might've bent him to their will, or they randomly made him possessed on accident, regardless it serves a narrative purpose rather than in DA:O it's a game mechanic. It serves a lot of narrative goodies if done right me thinks. I'd love me some Global Dice Rolls too, example: 1A) Recruit Aloth, get him into your party/stronghold 1B) Don't recruit Aloth 2A) Aloth is in your party and his reputation grows with ou 2B) Aloth goes off on his own Quest, you won't find him standing around if you go back in a couple of days to recruit him later. 3A) You kick Aloth/Aloth leaves 3B) Global Dice Roll: X = Aloth succeeds with his quest by himself. You can find and recruit him later somewhere. Y = Aloth succeeds with his quest by hismelf, but he becomes corrupted by it. You'll face off against Aloth and fight him later. Z = Aloth failed his quest and died. You might find his remains in one of his Quest-Path-Areas

@Ieldra: I'm guessing we're going to get info on that next week (the 8th of January) or on the one after that (15th). It's still holiday season, so dunno if Obsidian is working at full capacity. Even if they are, there's a certain holiday mindset and many people work more casual.

Yarr. I also got reminded by another thing: Using pen & paper out of the game (away from the game-screen) takes the Player out of the "game". It's a second task having to be performed outside of the game-space, bordering into reality. Having a digital pen & paper method, such as an Non-Auto-Updating Journal, keeps the Player on the screen, and it becomes a "game feature" rather than extra energy spent on A) Finding paper B) Finding pen C) Periodically pause game and write in out-of-game Journal. I think it's easier to get immersed if that ABC is implemented into the game. Comparatively: Computer = A) Don't need to find paper, use in-game Journal B) Don't need to find pen, use Keyboard (Faster to write on a Keyboard too) C) Periodically update in-game Journal, in-game, during Dialogue/Quest/Campfire/Whenever.

I wonder if I dress up as a certain type of character (Take out a guard, take his clothes) would allow you passage where you could not go earlier? This badge of recognition, for instance, could then be an equippable item. If you are wearing it, people will know who you are, but if you choose to not wear it, people won't know what you did (unless it is blatantly obvious or whatever, i.e. you've got such a high reputation with this or that faction that everyone knows that it was you who got the Badge from the Baron, regardless if you have it equipped or not). You could also do it as simply as just by having the badge equipped in a city, the city will always know (you'd have to go around every village with the badge to get global recognition though). Could give some incentive to get some neat little "recognition specific" random or scripted encounters. Bandits attacking you on the road, a mayor or nobleman who seeks your skill, a job offering as a general or maybe simply a scholar. Sounds like end-game~

I agree Bos, but I think that by fulfilling some requirements could bend any companion to the PC's will, because why not? Allows for more narrative freedom. It shouldn't be easy like DA:O "Here's a gift! Here's a gift! Here's a gift! You like me yet? Here's a gift! Here's a gift!" etc. etc. but should be more similar to a quest-line. Similarly, who is to say that you aren't getting bent by one of the companions? Jaheira kind of has that personality, she wants to control the Main Character in both a motherly and leading type of way. She tries to bend the character to do as she says, and it is very apparent too. You can in most circumstances just put her down if you want to as well in a "No Jaheira, let's do this my way" and she becomes all "Fine" but you can also choose "Sure, let's do it your way" IIRC. I don't see why Eternity companions couldn't try to corrupt the Player character, or some or one might even classify the main character as a saint (Lawful Good-Extremist character, Cadegund thinks that's all good or whatever).

I love this idea. But it shouldn't be a dialogue choice easy. If Cadegund is a devout follower, what is it that makes her switch sides and turn to the dark side? So to speak. Some of these corruptions would need to happen behind your companions backs, some sort of foul play or double-agent styled play. Allow the Player to go down a dark, conspiring, and corrupt path, but does Cadegund have to know about it? Be super kind to Cadegund all game, but keep the dark secrets away from her, and when they are brought to light, Cadegund's loyalty is questioned. Does she hang around this main character who has been nothing but good against her, but has been conducting necromantic arts behind her back? Maybe she'd fight you, but when you beat her down you spare her life and then "something something" and she's corrupt. Allowing the Player to express guile in this fashion brings me to another question which has been discussed in the past. A little bit off-topic but relevant to "corruption". "Party in Cities" was the thread called I think, but being allowed to split your party up (Star Ocean style, but Player controlled) could make this shadowy-double-agent playstyle a possibility. Send your main character towards the corruptive-side-plot-quest-tree, alone, and your companions won't know anything. Furthermore, maybe even send Cadegund herself towards the corruptive-side-plot area and you'll find out that she was a double-agent from the start! Why is it only the Player who gets the "I shall corrupt you!" treatment. What if Aloth, Edair or someone else has that goal in sight from the get-go. What if a companion is working on making you their apprentice, but they do so from their own agenda? So when you try to corrupt them, it is in truth you who are being led straight into their plans. PC: "I shall corrupt you!" Forton: "Good good" Also, I don't know what kind of Global Party controls there are, but I hope there are some. (Such as: - Send characcters not-in-party on scouting missions - Defend Stronghold as "not-in-party" members - Send characters in-party, in-towns, on various missions -- Burglary -- Patrol -- Fetch Items from Nearest Stash/Campsite -- Sell "Flagged As"-Junk Items -- Gather Information/Talk to NPC's Any of these would remove the party member from control for a brief period of time. Kind of like the dog in Torchlight, but would actually fulfill some objective. Furthermore, if you were to send Edair and Forton on a patrol mission in the city, they might encounter some ruffians by themselves that they have to take down) The point I wanted to make was... what if you send an unimportant Adventurer's Hall companion off on some mission out into the wilds and they return corrupt and tainted by some curse or possession. What is to say that any of the important companions could not fall into anything like that? Also, Cursed Items and... Cursed Spells (If there are any Curse Spells) affecting a character for a longer period of time could also affect their personality or "Reputation" values... no?

Well, there is a fatigue system in the IE games. If you go along to long without resting you'll get some penalties. I guess what I am proposing is a system which gets you to that stage quicker and also limits how much you can rest at the same time.

I don't want to shine like a christmas tree, I don't want to have wings or horns. I'd prefer if armor's didn't glow or swords either. And no aura rainbows either really. EDIT: Reputation: It should be possible to be rather unknown even as a high-level character.

Ranged attacks also work, but I think they give less Focus. So a more careful Cipher works too, perhaps with a one-handed crossbow and a Grimoire? A bit of a Van Helsing Wizard.

I love the idea, but there should also be places where there are just fancy corridors with a little dust maybe, just as deadly as the other levels. Meaning, no one else has gone before. Lower levels of Od Nua should have some of this. Meaning that no one else has ever ventured that deep into it. Imagine, going deeper and deeper, corpses become thinner and thinner, and there, you enter the halls of the depth, where there are no corpses or splatter clues. Perhaps making traps more dynamic and time controlled, slower execution could remove some of that "50/50" chance? I want some traps that are "non-detectable" and they get the "encounter"-treatment, in a way. A poison trap might bubble a little before beginning to leak and then ooze in a moisty green mist. But a quick thinker with a Wizard in their party might have some tricks up his sleeve to avert it. Or a "click" sound for a loading harpoon arrow aimed at your clumsy Fighter, but again, a quick thinker might enter some defensive mode and gaining bonus defense (Maybe "Footman Shield" stance or something as well), and can avert more damage from the trap sprung. The idea: Handle some traps like encounters, "non-detectable" and you have to use skills and combat abilities to avert it in a non-combat kind of way. A simple example: Trap sprung: Arrow is fired from location. Pause. Activate ability. Unpause. Take less damage. Fireball trap? Ice Shield Spell? Some tactical spartan formation? I think, in Baldur's Gate, traps are kind of mundane in that way. It's so very instant and little to do about it when a trap is sprung, save for some very minor movements. It'd be interesting to see if you could get more time to do urgent decisions. So that you could Wild Rush your Barbarian into the trap's trajectory path and in that way also save your mid-health Cipher. Or more trickier, a frost trap that creeps on the ground and accelerating, a torch or fire spells to slow it down or remove. Some magical and permanent traps until taken down. Not just "BOOM BIAt.... MAN!", but giving the Player some moves for Indiana Jones trap dodging.

@Leferd: But maybe a Cipher-styled-Wizard build (Lots of magic stuff). A supportive Cipher build (Buffs/Debuffs~FFXI Red Mage) and an aggressive melee Cipher build could work? Maybe not exactly like I portray them, but does some or all classes have different "builds"? Can other classes learn to "Sing" for instance, at a penalty of course and can only maybe raise it to level 2 or 3 in proficiency? In a similar way of how every class can learn stealth, lockpick and disable traps (did I get that right?). I mean, who wouldn't want a drunken singing pirate dwarf warrior? Does "Soul of the Voice" stuff work for Eternity? Could "Voice" be a weapon type? Anyways, [a Cipher/Chanter oriented build (items, gear, talents) = Cipher/Priest]? Conceptually of course.

That sounds horribly confusing for party management. Where's the overview? Hm, a local minimap could be one solution. Isometric-styled minimap for overview. Soundsets or "pings"/signals ("Your other character is in danger!" red ping, or "I need assisstance!" sound-set). But switching characters... Bindable Hotkeys, default F1-F6 could also function? Integrated tutorial into the story. Menu Management with an individual "Party Control Menu" for inventory, AI-Scripting and switching characters. Pause mechanics to make it less hectic, and/or confusing really (With Pause-Mechanics you allow the Player to take their time to understand mechanics as well). If executed correctly there'd be no confusion. Turn-Based FP RPG with combat like ToEE could also be pretty cool. Albion, an old PC game, has some sort of outdated mechanics like this. The only game I can think of though. But I think a Real-Time environment would be even cooler.

An idea: Imagine a game like Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity or Tides of Numenera as a First-Person cRPG. Built with the same mechanics, either in TB (with AP like Fallout, or ToEE), or RTwP. Real-Time with Pause would be most interesting, in my opinion. Fight enemies like Skyrim, but more important with parry + block rules. Adaptable AI, if you block correctly more, they will block correctly more when you play another class/character. Pause mid-swing, switch to your Wizard, cast or chant some spells, switch character. A little bit more "actiony" than Baldur's Gate but still tactical and similar. Be directly in control of one character at a time, yet control your entire party as well. Adaptable AI positioning. Basically recording Player moves and adapting itself to it. If you cast a certain spell against a certain enemy a number of times, the AI will begin to do the same on creatures bearing similar traits. Could this work for PoE by the way? Adaptable AI that is.

Or people are forming an idea of wanting a Baldur's Gate-ish world and atmosphere but in first-person. A tactical real-time First-Person cRPG with pause & slow-motion and companion controls/management. Strict Class-Based System. Some sort of adaptable AI (copying how you play with a class/character and play as such when you play another class/character). Could work.

I am curious as to how much Obsidian has accumulated now. Or an estimate, during the Kickstarter we could see how much funds Obsidian got, but now we're kind of in the dark. I trust Obsidian, but I kind of feel it'd be nice to get a number as well. Maybe they could do a Backer Site stretch goal thingy meter showing how it's moving along.

Again, from the Endurance wiki page, link is above: "Endurance may also refer to an ability to keep going through a tough situation involving hardship, stress, etc. (see patience)" The latter part, "(see patience)", is also part of the idea I am proposing for a Hardcore difficulty (regarding Stamina), as you'd require more patience to make the "right" decisions in combat or in the world (I.E. lose as little Stamina during encounters and during general gameplay). You'd have to plan and prepare, probably pause a lot more as well as be careful how you position yourself. Now, I've tweaked the idea somewhat during the course of this thread. But originally I did think about it something like this: For every 10% Stamina lost in combat, -3% of your current Stamina would regenerate. - Lose 30% Stamina in one fight, you'd regenerate to 91% - Lose 50% Stamina in one fight, you'd regenerate to 85% etc. etc. - Let's say you have 91% after one fight. - You make a bad move in the second fight, losing 50%. Stamina only regenerates to 76%. Numbers are, as always, only conceptual. But what this would do would make Stamina as a resource way more important, as you would really want to lose as little as possible over the course of a day. With more levels, you'd have to worry less about Stamina though, as you'd be able to stay up for longer periods of time, but instead start to worry more about the actual Hardcore difficulty encounters. Regardless, I will be looking into the files of Eternity after I've felt the rules first-hand (one or two playthroughs) and see if I am capable of tweaking/modding the rules (and if it is even necessary to do so) for a harder difficulty. In another thread (or was it this one? Too lazy to look) I say that some of these ideas I am discussing here nowadays are also somewhat a curiosity for post-release fan content that I want to attempt to take on or create. I am getting loads of inspiration and being confronted by you, PrimeJunta or others, helps me improve & think through the concept (admittedly for my own preferences, but it also spurrs me on in a "Challenge Accepted" kind of way to provide for others)

IRMA you aren't getting the point. You can make a Wizard and put that Wizard in the stead of your Fighter's role. It's not going to be better than the Fighter at doing what the Fighter does best, but you'd conceptually have a Wizard/Fighter. Just equip your Wizard with Sword & Shield and Full Plate Armor, maybe even gain some Talents that make your Wizard better at Melee Engagement as well. If you play League of Legends... what Obsidian "seems"* to be doing is kind of... Zyra is a good example: - Zyra is a great Mid-Lane Champion, high AP (Ability Power) damage. A Wizard in a sense. - Zyra can also play the Support role, due to her Spells/Abilities. She can lock down enemies really good. Support, comparatively, could be the same thing as a "Chanter" or a "Priest" I presume. In other words, Zyra can play 2 different roles. She can potentially be a "Dual-Role" Champion in one and the same game as well if she's played well (Both Supportive and Wizard-y). In a sense that's the same thing as a Dual-Class. In a sense. * I admit, I have no bloody clue but I am just speculating based on the information I have read on classes, and it's also easier for me to explain what "different roles" means.

But Pipyui, if you had arrived at Ostagar in different fashion then? Sure, you're going to get on the rail eventually, but Ostagar truly is the "hub" point in the game where you are put on the rails instantly. What if you had arrived as Wynne's apprentice? Or arrived instead of Feargus? (Human Noble) Or if you arrive in a jail cell and you are the prisoner in the cage at Ostagar Camp? What if you had arrived as a Dwarven Slave, or as a Dwarven Noble overlooking your investments? My only main gripe with Ostagar is how it doesn't matter where you come from, when you come to Ostagar it's all the same. The very moment the loading screen ends and the game picks up again, there's the King, and there's Duncan, and there's you. It's like you just have a different costume every time. I think what Dragon Age: Inquisition is doing is right in this sense, if you do "A", you'll be locked out of "B". But in DA:O you always get the same results no matter what Origin you pick. Regardless, I am not suggesting anything as substantial as DA:I, cus that'd be a lot of work for Obsidian. But instead, envision the game Baldur's Gate, and the ability to start off somewhere else than the Location Candlekeep in the world and go from there. Say, Beregost maybe, or the Friendly Arms Inn, maybe even in Nashkel. I think it'd be a great execution of having a sense of "Different Origins", and also a sense of having more freedom.

Yes. I only presume it would, but reading up on Vitality on the PE Wiki (again, btw, to jog my memory) it seems it doesn't. And it also dawns on me that Stamina (<- click me, I'm part of the [Endurance] link) is more akin to Endurance*. I always presumed that Stamina was a sort of "Swinging a blade around takes energy, just as it takes energy to get hit by a blade". But it seems that in Eternity you don't spend energy by running around, you only seem to spend energy when you get hit by an enemy or a source "other than you". This is my misunderstanding: Stamina = An internal & external form of how much punishment you can take (How many hits you can do to a source "other than you" or how many hits you can take from a source "other than you" before passing out). - Swinging a hit at an enemy = -2 Stamina - Taking a hit from an enemy = -5 Stamina Health = An external form of how much punishment you can take (How many hits you can take from a source "other than you" before dying). * Endurance (also related to sufferance and resilience) is the ability of an organism to exert itself and remain active for a long period of time, as well as its ability to resist, withstand, recover from, and have immunity to trauma, wounds, or fatigue. Strike-through cus that's not part of Eternity's design.

I'm actually only seeing "it would be too much work." It would. There have been pretty good explanations of why it would be too much work. I'm not seeing the "pro" camp address these objections much. Seems they prefer to ascribe all kinds of unrelated motives to the "con" camp instead. I know, less work that way. But what's the difference? If Obsidian finds someone with: A) Good gear and good voice B) Ability to record for free C) Takes time to record/It would be much work Versus professional: A) Good gear and good voice B) Costs a ton of money C) Takes time to record/It would be much work As for copyright issues or suing, like someone else mentioned, just make a written and vocal understanding that the work is volunteer *shrug* otherwise, as I said earlier, if the game is shipped with the "allowance" (in code and in dialogues)* for fans to add their voice to the game~ that's pretty much the same thing but post-release ofc. And I'm satisfied with that too, but I can't help but feel that a volunteer or two could cost Obsidian less money, if organized in a good way. And yes, I meant to say that a volunteer would replace a professional. * Kind of like the discussion about Portraits, having placeholders for factions and such, and then allowing fans or modders to replace those placeholders. In a dialogue or VO kind of way, it could simply be "silent", i.e. no recorded voice at all, then fans could insert a recorded voice in the empty slots.

I did not know that attacks or abilities use stamina. Could you provide a reference for this? Yes. And you should only introduce new mechanics for that purpose if they add meaningful dimensions to the gameplay, like the hardcore mode in FO:NV. Yours doesn't. A resource cost for resting would, for example. Why not advocate for that? 1. I did not say or state that attacks cost Stamina, I was asking you. 2. I have advocated for Rest Resources (a long time ago now). I also think that adding a Stamina that degenerates post-encounters and with time adds a meaningful dimension. Fragility, a sense of weakness and a sense of immersion. Not to mention that it'd be more difficult too.

The existing mechanics with a ratio of 1:2 ofc. But truthfully? Both combined together Actually, you'd only have 40% stamina to spend. Looks like you don't quite understand how Obsidian's mechanics even work. So if I use an attack or an ability that costs 4% Stamina I'd take 1% Health damage from it because I... acted? And no, I don't fully understand Obsidians Health/Stamina system, I've only caught up on some things about it. Didn't quite understand it back then either to be honest and left the discussion alone because I felt "I'll let others discuss this matter, it'll probably come out great in the end". Which it probably will. But you can always make it more difficult

Yes neo6874, which is why I am not suggesting anything like DA, I'm just stating and discussing what I think DA did wrong and how to avoid it. It's one of those "Compare DA's concept with this concept I am discussing/suggesting, it's not the same".