Osvir

But can the audience relate to the story if it floats within some sort of societal void? Does it feel convincing, and resonate with people, or is it just another fairy tale in some fantasy paradise? Personally I think the idea of "Oh, this stuff is just going on elsewhere, and you'll never witness it" is quite unimaginative, and could be applied to nearly any thread here. Depends, does the farmer work on a large farm where there's 100's of workers that after their workday go home to Big City 1 where you can meet them and get the explanation of how it all works? Baldur's Gate had 2 areas just outside that had farmlands, Nashkel had farmlands as well, Friendly Arms Inn had some cows. In Might & Magic 1 food is just "Food", with no explanation to it at all. Sometimes you only need to show 5% to immerse the rest of the 95%. How much needs to be explained versus how much do we fill in the blanks?

How and why? EDIT: Motivate.

Yea, that sounds real fun. I can't gauge if you are being sarcastic or not. I'm still curious about that... could "camping" cost some sort of resource? Food or some "wood"/light source. In Might & Magic Food is just a "number", you don't get to choose if you want apples or beef, it is just "Food = 12" and that's that. Simplistic and works for immersion (simple and rocking it). It would make resting less abusing. "Can't rest because I don't have enough resources"~ heck, if you don't have enough resources you could rest as well, but it'd up the ambush encounters by +50% or something (with resources you'd rest with 25% chance of random ambush/encounter or something~conceptual thoughts). What do you guys think? Would it cause more problems than it is worth?

In before the "Knock knock" jokes. Will you be able to barge your way in? Will you be able to "trick" your way in? "I'm a government official and we have heard strange rumors about this house! You need to leave so we can make a full inspection!!" (Lying) Sales pitch? Jehovas witness? (I can see that as a joke, some NPC walking around knocking on doors trying to spread some religious propaganda) What with the written word not being in the game, "door-to-door salesmen" could be running around handling business. Could you send off one character to sell "vendor trash" items like this? *Parties in Cities

Dragons, dragons everywhere! Please, don't include them. Lizards are good, even dragonlings, but not full-sized dragons in yet another game. One single Dragon can really set a tone in any fictional work (Smaug). 13-14 Dragons ruins it and makes Dragons boring (Skyrim). How would the inclusion of one or two dragons (and not more) affect your experience of the game? A Full-Grown Dragon (in whatever way it is) in my opinion needs to be "Epic", Legendary and Rare. Not something you stumble upon in your first dungeon to say the least. Hormalakh brought up this, and although it isn't entirely true for a Dragon (but it could be another monster/object) I can see it being more interesting if some "Ancient Beast of Wisdom & Destruction". Who doesn't want to cook and eat a Dragon's heart and gain an insightful Dragon's Wisdom? More Dragons.

^No, I understood your point but came up with another idea instead of blindly agreeing with you (that doesn't mean I don't agree with you). Did you understand my idea? I'm speaking about running as an "ability". Similar to a Spell, you click to use it then you click in which direction you want to run "Hey! Run that direction!" or "Charge that enemy!". Still keyboard+mouse controlled. Let me try to explain in words: You click the ability, a ring appears around your character (How far range they've got on running) you click at the edge of the ring and your character runs that way and that far. With pausing you have enough control to do it on all of your characters, what I am trying to do is not "Let's do this!" but more like "Hey is this a solution? Is this a solution? Is this a solution?". Poll to take into consideration as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GI8-5CDtdk What's happening in the video? Gragas is the fat man in purple~ throwing what looks like a giant wine bottle. Amumu is the small green guy/mummy guy. The red line and mark on the small guy is Caitlynn's ultimate ability (Shooting a sniper shot). Gragas uses an ability to make him dash and take the damage of the shot (saving Amumu from death). EDIT: In short; Gragas doesn't just dash, he saves a party member because he can dash.

I'm personally on the side that likes the art. I think many of us thought it was going to be more beastial (myself included) but seeing what the concept art is thus far I'm getting a grasp of what kind of world P:E is in conceptual genealogy, and a like-sized grasp of what Obsidian is aiming for. There are going to be Godlike races after all, could beastiality be tied to being some of the Godlike+Race? A Human with the fish skin like Aumaua, a Half-Race to many but really a Human touched by one of the Aumaua Gods. Or an animal God has touched a Dwarf, making him more furry, beastial. How will the Godlike races affect the appearance of the core races?

What if it is a "Dash"? Burst speed forward to a location. Then it can be in any direction (like Zelda and friends), if Running/Charging/Dashing is a "ranged" ability. EDIT: Then it could be like you, the player, is telling your character "Run that way" and they'll run for a bit (dice rolls could be included, "slipping on a banana peel" or if their morale is high they could even run faster).

"Oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap!" is always fun just to take a quick breather where you think you are safe for a second or two and then "Oh crap oh crap oh crap!!!". Something that feels like an ordinary dungeon, you go down and defeat the dungeon boss, that either transforms into something or defeating the boss causes something to happen that chases us through the dungeon. That could work. The safe spot could even be getting outdoors and still being chased for a bit before finally getting away.

Wha...? You misunderstand (I made myself misunderstood again? Pfft, it happens, sorry), all I'm saying is: My dream is to see Obsidian succeed. *looks at my post* I'm sorry if I conveyed some sort of doubt in yourself some way that I did not intend for, but I don't see how you think I questioned anything of this. I'm just saying that "expectations = bad". EDIT: (Opinion) The coloring of the Naga like creatures (that you posed) could fit as a skin tone for the presented WIP concept art. http://www.minscandboo.com/quotes.php

Yes, I am controlling 1 character out of 5. Let's play a game of BGEE and invite 3 friends. Same bloody thing in concept (controlling 1 character out of 5). That's all I really wanted to say. I am not suggesting that the pacing of the League should be implemented. Obviously it won't (what with pausing and 6 party members). It makes sense to be able to dodge spells and abilities. No, seriously, it does. Someone is raising his two handed hammer to crush me? Like hell am I going to stand there and take that. Oh snap the enemy is throwing a fireball spell or an eruption from the ground? (Brand) Am I just going to stand there and take it? No. I'll be doing my best to run away from that. Likewise, is the enemy just going to stand there and take it when I throw apocalypse on them? More League parallels: I am also focusing how I can support the team best and where I should stand and position myself so I can aid as many as possible at once. So no, I am not focusing on my champion abilities I am focusing on everyone's abilities. I press tab to be "aware" of what items my team members as well as my opponents choose, I am aware where everyone is on the map and I ping/SS for my team mates etc. etc. but that's all part of the competitive play. I am not lecturing you, I am telling you how I play. Two different things, but I s'pose it could be lecturing as well if you want to see it like that. I am not saying that dodging should be pre-dominant, but that it should definitely be a part of the experience and "How can you make that better?". There are tons of instances in Baldur's Gate where I need to dodge (manually, I have to click one party member to go somewhere else or else everyone gets affected by a group spell/AoE spell). It already is a part of the experience in the old games, am I misunderstanding that you want it to be removed? I just want it to be better (opinion). EDIT: And more active (opinion). Doesn't matter if there are direct aim/homing skills 70%-30%, even if there are 30% skill shots in LoL that's roughly 100 Abilites. Even some of the Direct Hit Spells can be used as a Skill Shot by themselves (Shields mostly). That's not even taking the Items with Activated abilities into considerations. I explain this further down but: Timing = press button at the right time in the right situation for the right moment (once). Button mashing = Press, Press, Press, Press, Press, Press, Press, Press!!! God of War springs to mind. Obviously we are split here. I am using my entire party (manually) without scripts. I have no input on this. *nods* I don't know, button mashing sounds "negative". It is like pressing "X, X, X, X, X" on a PS3 controller when in fact (In LoL) it is more like having the mouse pointer down the lane to escape downwards at the same time as having your finger on "W" with being ready on "E" as well as "2" for an item and "F" for Flash and "D" for Exhaust. Keeping an eye on the minimap at the same time etc. etc. yeah I think you get it but, that's just what I wanted to say: Button mashing = X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X LoL = Q, Q, W, E, R, D, F, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 as hotkeys/buttons/abilities. Might be some more. Whilst I don't want a League of Legends combat to form the P:E one, I'm merely stating that there is lots to be inspired by (that LoL does very good!!). How can you take something from League of Legends and use in and tweak for P:E? Both Fireball and Horror are Skill Shots as well. You don't have to "Target Enemy" (click on enemy), you can "Attack-Ground" (Like Catapults in WC3 or Siege Tanks in SC2). They were skill shots, there are more similar spells like that (Bless is one too). Okay I'm not 100% about Horror but I am 100% about Fireball and Bless and other various spells that you can press "on ground" and not on the enemy. My Druid in IWD has a Tsunami/Wave spell that shoots a wave in the direction I am aiming it (regardless if I aim it on an enemy or if I press on the ground). Haven't really thought about it, excellent rebuttal DotA for WC3 had better AI handling no doubt about it (late DotA Wc3). The bots were actually challenging. But you are correct, can't really think of any. I personally think that Baldur's Gate has a more interesting AI, but in terms of positioning and map travel? Hm nope can't think of one. Doesn't change the fact that the AI in LoL sucks (in terms of skill level. It is a walk in the park, the hardest difficulty in Co-Op vs AI feels like Casual).

I wanted a reptile non-humanoid water thing shark owl Aumakua turtle Hawaiian giant dream character but seeing that this Obsidian's concept I'm digging it. Either you follow Obsidian's dream or you follow your own and get disappointed (another form of it is "having expectations") *shrug* Though at first glance I thought they were just humans, upon further inspection they are different... and hey, I like it they seem cool. Can't say too much more as they don't have any fleshed out Lore yet. But for some reasons I think the Samoan/island coastal discussions might play a part in it, with their already vague "revealed-by-Obsidian" Lore. Good job Obsidian

It kind of looks like an arrow. EDIT: I noticed that the ears are funky as well! :D

Ah okay, yep, I pretty much knew I misunderstood the question but went with it anyways. Thanks for explaining First thing: LoL is based on single hero play, and each hero has roughly 4 abilities. And there are 5 heroes at max which you are facing at half an hour time span. So it has completely different gameplay. Next one: even in LoL there is not prevalent amount of abilities that could be really dodged. Direct hit abilities could be negated by becoming temporary invulnerable which is button mashing and bad for D&D inspired stat based game game, imo. The last one: the game would be stat based, so dodging should rely on character stats, not player input. If player-controlled dodge ability would be implemented it would be action-rpg hybrid with dexterity as dump stat. Why ever I need it, if I could do everything manually? Stat based spell dodging = ranged touch attack. The very last one: LoL have one of the most complex bot AI-s in such games, dedicated and attuned to small bunch of maps. But still it's pretty stupid, and deals pretty badly with positioning against unique-mechanics abilities. First: Wrong. It is based of 5v5 gameplay (DotA) and party setup (it is most likely inspired by the IE games) and teamwork is the most important part of it. Sure, I only have control of 1 character, but together we are one unit. Riot games have started with this "Pro-Tip" stuff during the loading screen and one of them is "Do you value individual skill above teamwork?". With the abilities I have as Janna (as an example, she is a support champion) I control whether my team mates take damage, if they are low on health I can save them, heal them and push away the enemies so on and so forth. However, I play League of Legends like it is a sport (not for entertainment only). Pro-Player Second: Wrong. There are tons of skill shot abilities in League of Legends. There are 117 Champions. I do agree that it could mean getting a temporary invurnability, I'm not saying that it'll be "instant casting" and super easy to "time" exactly when you should use the ability. Perhaps it takes 1 second just to "activate" it to enter 1 frame for a millisecond so you negate the damage. The point wasn't to become invulnerable, the point is "timing". Actually being able to Skillfully dodge damage. Would you be able to do it constantly? Probably not. It would require you to stay focused in the battle. And not just "Rook to D-7". Chess is fun though. Don't misunderstand League of Legends with button mashing, because it isn't, it is very tactical. It is more aggressive and more action than the IE games. The IE games are way more passive. Both of these games draw their roots from Chess. Each character in the party serves a function and you have a King and Queen. What do LoL and the IE games have in common? Dodge = Yes both of the game employ manual dodging from manual placed spells Placement = Placement of manual spells (more modernly called: Skill Shots) or thrown potions Positioning = Positioning is super important!! Scouting = Setting up wards and having a fast agile ninja like character (Rogue in the IE games) to scout the jungles in LoL to check for enemies. Focus Fire = Who do you need to focus to win? The enemy Wizard? The enemy Archer? Who do I protect that the enemy likes to focus? Gear = Buying items and Equipment to tactically make your party better, to gain additional effects, to gain additional item specific abilities and so on and so forth Mastery = Skill points, in the IE games this would be equivalent to Proficiency (the IE games are just more simplistic). Teamwork = Teamwork Third: There are some abilities in Baldur's Gate that requires manual dodging. A Horror spell only hits those who are within the radius, so whenever it strikes I always scatter my party members away from it. Likewise when an incoming Fireball comes at me. So this is already in the IE games, I'm talking about innovative and new ways (as well as updated ways) to handle it. It is not about LoL mechanics being applied to P:E, but BG mechanics being updated and applied to P:E. Fourth: Riot games have hardly touched the AI creation and it is soo bad, it is mostly just a "Tutorial" and/or Practice Ground for testing out new builds. Facing the bots is only Ego stroking and nothing else, they suck. Unless there is some fan-made killer AI out there (I haven't looked to be honest). Actually now that I think about it, the AI in League of Legends is utter crap. I could probably win 1 against 5 bots.

"It doesn't make sense/logically" followed by "It makes sense/logically". Why even include "it doesn't make sense"? Like you say, their species are probably not born and evolved in the Dyrwood area of the world. If they are anything like the fan-imagined Samoan tribal Aumaua that has been discussed earlier, they probably come from a series of islands in the middle of the ocean (Like the Philippines/New Zealand). "Personally I don't see much connection..." the concept art isn't colored yet, they seem to have on their foreheads and down the side of their faces some sort of "darker" shading as well as on their forehands stomach, legs etc. etc.. What about that shark-fin on the Barbarian (the one with the axe) on the head? If you show me a banana that we call an orange (if we call it "orange" there is obviously something about it that makes us call it "orange"), most likely it is a different type of banana with its own set of rules and digestion in the Eco-System. Doing some coloring.... Dreads = Algea hair Looking with a zooming glass it looks as if this guy got a Shark fin on the head. So these are Shorcs (Sharks), so their mentality might be closer related/inspired to that predator rather than Orc mentality. Short fuses and snaps/bites easily and quickly (like a Shark).

Well, Fast Traveling like TES and Fallout 3/NV is in concept like the IE fast traveling. When you find [Location] you can fast travel to it. I thought P:E would have a fast traveling system from point A to point B but I might be wrong? (Update #15-#16) Where in any of the posts in the thread is anyone talking about removing the Fast Travel feature? Regardless, I'm on the same page. I think it would make excellent sense, "it makes no sense because it logically and realistically does make sense" is what I read from this quote (hence the S). Yep.

It depends on the coloring. They could be "human" colored, looks like they will have "blight" (don't know a better way to explain it), one certain color. I hope turtle-ish. And like someone else said, more like Aumaua and less like Orcs (which looks what we are getting). *looks at Hormalakh quote, looks at underline* Because they are Aumauas, and not Orcs. EDIT: Don't mean to be rude but I think it's important to say: deal with it.

The color of the incantation, the symbols that appear on the Wizard as he is preparing to cast could be different depending on what type of spell, both technically and in gameplay this could be an easy solution. You'll know that the spell being cast is an offensive spell before it is being cast and will be able to prepare with it. It is self-rewarding when you manage to dodge that difficult ability. Blitzcrank in League of Legends, he has a powerful hook ability (he throws a hook forward, and if he grabs you he'll pull you too him where all his friends are standing). It is so rewarding to be able to dodge that ability, then counter-attack whilst this ability is on Cooldown. That's really the only reason why dodging is awesome. Likewise there is a character called Vayne who can tumble (in League of Legends) and whilst doing so becomes "invisible" and you can't damage her, a Magic Missile being shot at her and she does the "tumble" thing right when it is needed to negate all the damage would be an awful lot of cool as well. With the Pause, however, dodging might be very easy. How do you make the AI using the same dodging techniques as you can without making encounters tedious or way too challenging? Same thing with Disconnecting from the spell, how does the enemy use it?

I don't know to be honest haven't experienced it myself, but from reading comments and looking it up it seems that this necromancer will follow you around (it seems to be a bug/glitch thing, might be a part of design as well.. I read something that you have to take down this guy in some special way because he respawns even if you kill him). Probably like this (I edited in "grizzly" and did the S thing over average in the quote). Though, this is Hollywood: Most bears (animals) are rather docile, shy, and friendly (towards us, they can be pretty nervous around us as well, which is totally legit considering how we treat many other species), but like all primitive animals if you tick them off or go too close to their cubs they are going to be mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xo21L0ybE

I'm hoping for lots of skill shots, and skill dodging. I'm hoping I will be able to pause and put up a barrier or a "root" that blocks the passage and obstructs the incoming fireball. Hence why Magic Missile is important (because it curves around obstacles like that). Perhaps even wash the fireball spell away mid-air with a tsunami spell, or even cast a tornado spell that catches the fireball in mid-air and dependent on a dice roll it'll either continue (and go towards the enemies) or backlash and you'll have a fire tornado coming at you. I'm hoping for "Directed" spells as well (no skill shots, click on enemy and the spell will be homing in on the enemy). I would also love to be able to run away from slow moving spells:

And even if they don't run away I wouldn't like to see something like this :S (important imo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI7olEfavHE EDIT: The author of this video tried to be funny with the title, complain about in the YouTube comments, not here please.

Sweet! I really like the Monk "Jump"/"Leap". Would Wizards be able to harness their powers so much that at a point in the game they'll begin to float? (or as an activated duration spell) That should up their movement speed. Regarding "Floating" (seen it somewhere in some other post), it'd be tactical for dungeon crawling as well (avoiding some traps/pitfalls). Off-Topic: What happens if 1 of my party members fall down a pitfall whilst the 5 other party members did not. Will the 6th party member be on a different map? Will I be able to throw down a rope? Will I have to try and gather the group separately at some "yet unknown" rendevouz point? Will I be forced to jump down with all of my party members through the pitfall or will I have a choice? Has this been discussed before? (basically "Party getting separated/split up in a cave-in")

I'm a total coward, really, but I fight to the death. In previous games there hasn't been much impact in "running away", it is time consuming to run away. "Damn I walked down this entire dungeon just to fail, hard, and now I have to go out of it and run away from it til I'm stronger..... nah, I'll just keep saving/reloading til I win". However, if mechanically there was some sort of "reward" (a "reward" can be that everyone is laughing at you because you failed or whatever, or become really angry because the Necromancer is still creating skeletons that are exterminating the villagers on a day to day basis). Something happening and reacting because you ran away. Though these should be limited and not for every single encounter. You enter a hallway through a door, walk down the hallway and face a group of bandits. IF engaged [bandit] Walk on trigger [Entrance]: Bandit says "Coward!" (Activate once) ^^^this is a "reward" as well. Something "happening". It could also "trigger" you, the player, to turn around and decide to fight the battle instead of running from it. More of that stuff please

No Health Potions, what about Torches for those minor cuts and bleeding? Can Torches also be used as a "closing wounds" type of thing? Not putting too much weight on how much you can use the "Torch" though, as it should really be a low level item before getting the ultimate "light" spell. If Torches could be a Camping Resource cost, then all of the Light spells would have to be as well (which pretty much pours my "Torch = Camping Resource" idea down the drain in my own opinion). One of the things about Resting in Baldur's Gate was that there was no real threat about it. We've been discussing "Food" in another thread (and several threads) and following this paragraph: Making Resting better: Costing resources, must have a light source and some food in your backpack, apart from the threat of being ambushed by monsters/bandits or whatnot. Maybe you could even loose some gold because some petty "guided-by-a-God" thief came and robbed you during the night (and your guard dozed off). These are some ways to mitigate Rest abusing. Making it less accessible, and "Should I keep these torches to close wounds, light up dungeons or for resting?" also plays a big tactical role (Decisions, decisions). Like I said in another post, torches capping at "12" or something like that in an inventory for 1 character (or they'd weigh too much~can't carry more). They wouldn't heal Stamina, but specifically Health, though then it is excluding some designs for those who don't play Mortality Mode. So I don't know if that's good or bad. I feel that the inventory, or what your character can carry, is going to be fairly limited. Reading on the Wizards descriptions (wikia) they speak about "anvil heavy tomes". Now, a Grimoire or a Tome doesn't weigh as much as an anvil (that's just vivid/creative writing). But it implies that the Wizard can't carry 2 Tomes because carrying 1 under your arm is heavy as it is, e.g., limited inventory space/capacity/weight. The Torch idea I have, regarding a "limited" amount that you can carry on one member (or because they weigh too much stacked) would only work for all of its intended purposes if the inventory management is "realistic". Having 12 torches sticking out of your backpack is imo realistic, and you'd still have room for 2-3 books, some potions, herbs and similar. Of course, there's probably other solutions to it as well.

Smoke on the water. The old school games have always appealed to me, personally, because of this. They were not just "first" but they were designed simplistic and rocking it. Good interview Eh maybe. Talk is cheap as they say, you should be based on your actions in and of themselves for the most part. Talk is just a very easy low risk form of action after all. If you say "I will save the orphans!" then do it, well that really shouldn't factor in. If you say "I will save the orhpans!" then you fail, or worse, purposefully botch it then if anything your reputation loss should be worse. But if they don't bake that in through some means I will live. The "Planscape" method was considerably too specific. We don't need five different versions of "Yes I will do it." I multi-quoted this for some reason.... right. There is also the question of "I will save the orphans!", and even though you tried you best you failed. Your reputation should be effected in some ways that, you tried at least. Maybe you managed to make it worse by some stupid decision that you did (a mistake) but how would the villager's know that? They'd only know that you come back worn, torn and in shame for not being able to save them. Likewise, the villager's could blame our group for not being able to save the children even if our "goodness" group tried their best. "The Whining Villager": -Save our children because we aren't strong enough!- Us: -Okay we'll try our best- *fail* Us: -We tried our best- The Whining Villager: -Trying isn't good enough- Or something. I don't think we necessarily need 5 different ways for "I'll do it" but 5 different ways to reach the end-goal/reward~ what I was also trying to say is that there shouldn't be just "Either you gain lots of reputation for saving orphans or you loose a ton of reputation". There should be some middle "safe" ground where you don't get too much (playing evil) or where you don't loose too much (playing good). Though, perhaps this could be adjusted by some "game notices you are playing a very good character, thus every bad decision you do/make will lower your reputation relative to what your reputation is currently". A good character doing bad things should get some slack. Likewise, an evil character doing some good things should get some slack from the evil factions/companions. I still want to march into a city with a evil party and see everyone scurry away, close their windows in fright as my character passes through (End-game reputation). I agree, but it also depends on how Stamina is thought out. I am curious as to what the "goal" is with Stamina. How Obsidian wants it to function in concept... that way it'd be easier to discuss the tactical aspects of it. It seems it'll be fairly tactical though and something to think about in most major fights (whilst fodder enemies are fodder enemies regardless and you'll barely break a sweat). To be fair, they can't heal stamina. Possibly spells that heals some 2-5 Health points. I'd like to see potions that heal stamina though (an average~ amount). Perhaps even some potions that give +40 Stamina, but at the "end" of it you loose -50 Stamina (Because of over-exerting). Then there's the word and definition of "Reinvigorate" which I feel resonates with "Monk". Perhaps a Cipher could pay his/her Stamina to heal someone else's with an "energy" loss (Cipher giving the Fighter +20 Stamina, looses an additional -10 Stamina, so the Fighter got +20 Stamina at the cost of -30 Stamina for the Cipher).