IndiraLightfoot

I'm extremely excited about this game, and honestly, it will surely measure up well against BG1 (without its expansions at release). So many seem to forget that PoE can't be like BG2, since it's a low level campaign in a new IP with new RPG rules and everything. It's virginal, essentially. The story and the companions will most likely be pretty great - probably better than BG1. The big caveat is the combat. Endless threads in the beta forums certainly hint at the possibility of disappointment in all those people who expected IE-like combat, including kill xp (It's hard to guesstimate how many these are). However, for all others, it is actually already beginning to shape up nicely as a low-level spiritual successor to the IE games: party-based, isometric and a world full of adventure and interesting stories, cultures and history. A poll in the general forum showed that were plenty of backers 20-35 years of age - which could mean that they associate Obsidian with NWN2, first and foremost, and this pretty big player base won't be disappointed.

Great news for Obsidian and their baby PoE!

I gave my impressions of it in my Rate Your games of 2014 here-thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68866-rate-your-2014-games-here/?p=1539247 I named it my personal Game of the Year. It got a total score of 91.7 out of 100, so it must be in my top ten list of games made in the 21th century. Having played twice as long now, I'm tempted to raise that score even further. I love it for what it is - it achieves what it set out to do.

Here's a simple idea to achieve a little more char advancement asynchronicity (Gotta love that word!): Whenever a certain character is landing a killing blow, a tiny xp bonus gets added, for no other reason that it's fun - it could even be in that character achievement list: Most kills, most powerful foe vanquished, etc... Kjaamor: I should add, I am speaking of both self-rolled parties and parties consisting of companions picked up along the way.

^That, plus simpler standardized lines and the combat log updating on the bottom will do wonders for it! Nice news!

Really? You like that? Doing "thing" and all party members except one get a big chunk of XP, eternally damning him to trail behind. That'd make my OCD flare up hard. Reload. Redo. I'm a bit crazy like that. All I know, I have always been fond of that - it has even been an indicator, when I am new to a CRPG, if I've built a char that most likely won't pull her weight.

As long as you keep it nasty enough, I'm fine with any such fine-tuning.

This sounds promising, but one big question remains as far as asynchronous char advancement is concerned: Will there be no xp for any downed characters? This is something I always loved about many CRPGs - if one of your characters turn out to be more resilient, it will indeed advance faster, and the reverse of that is also true: Characters that keep keeling over will advance more slowly.

Out of sheer curiosity, since I'm playing DA:I right now, will there be more monsters in PoE like the beetles, with teleport-like abilities? I mean, since that certainly puts the pressure up on any glass cannons or poorly armoured party members hunkering in the back row.

Kjaamor: I have been advocating the same points over and over last year, and so far to no avail. Passionate about asynchronous levelling? You bet!!!

After hours of exciting and often challenging combat on Nightmare difficulty, I stumbled over these words, written by Kirk Hamilton, Kotaku: "There's no healing spell in the game, which is a bold move and in my experience so far, a successful one. The only way to heal mid-combat is by using potions, and you're initially limited to eight among your entire party. That means that buffs, barriers, and guards become extremely important, and you'll no longer have to dedicate one of your four party members to act as healer to the other three. The game encourages a satisfying blend of caution and aggression, and it really works." I couldn't agree more. It's streamlined and rather ARPG-y, but it certainly is great fun and challenging in quite a lot of ways depending on your party composition.

I tend to play with no reloads (I will reload if I push the wrong button or something but I won't reload for failed saving throws or anything like that). I just find the games more fun that way. I certainly know that thrill. It's a bit like going Hardcore in Diablo or Expedition: Conquistador, two kinds of challenges which I enjoyed immensely.

Just because the first IE-game, BG, was based one particular version of one? All I'm convinced of so far is that Sensuki's exploits of the engag/disengage-mechanic is well formulated and they certainly need fixing. But, having played BG and IWD2 recently, I certainly loved the combat, but I didn't play it like Sensuki does. My playstyle is more in line with Shevek's. Some people dismiss it as passive and standing still (Well, I do adore 4Xgames and Civ), but I certainly enjoy it to bits. I had fun playing NWN2, and I am sure I will have fun playing this. However, my guess is that those people really p`**sed off about this (Seari, Hormalakh? Is this how you play?) are quite possibly people that play like Sensuki - lots of pausing, and, paradoxically, moving, whereas I just slack around and position my guys after a plan while I do it mostly live and often take too much damage for my own good. However, it's fast and fun and rather easy and laid back. I'm not playing Ironman mode that way, that's for sure, but it works like a charm. EDIT: I do save scum a lot as well.

Gairnulf: What a lovely post! Thank you. PoE has verything to gain from following your advice, and nothing to lose. The state the combat log is in now is pretty deplorable, especially with the annoying jump to the roof of the window each time it gets updated - which means it just keeps rolling, but never showing the latest info.

*Not reading, not reading* I just pop in here to tell you a little story from Nightmare Difficulty (which I experienced a while back) with a level 7 party deciding to spend 15 points on that "In Hushed Whispers" assignment. Sure, it said "trap" right there on the box, but...

At least, Engag removed means there's one thing less that'll clutter our combat log. And indeed - the look and feel of it is the same (since, weirdly enough, the whole thing is invisible, literally).

From Update #44, OE seemed clearly quite intent on having Engagement and "sticky" combat as a central feature in PoE: Josh: "gameplay: engagement -- specifically, melee engagement. Melee engagement is a solution to two common problems in the Infinity Engine games: melee characters' inability to control an area and ranged characters' ability to "kite" melee characters. In the Infinity Engine games, melee characters could be quite powerful in toe-to-toe combat, but many opponents found ways to foil those characters with little difficulty. Fast characters could easily rush around a slower melee character with impunity and ranged characters could backpedal perpetually out of reach. If you're familiar with D&D 3E/3.5/4E/Pathfinder's attack of opportunity mechanics, Project Eternity's melee engagement fills a similar role by making melee combatants "sticky". Coming near a melee combatant means being drawn into Engagement with him or her, a state that can be risky to get out of. Here's how it works: when two opposed combatants come near each other and one of them a) has a melee weapon equipped b) is not moving and c) is not currently at his or her maximum limit of engagement targets (the standard is 1), the other character will be Engaged. When an opponent is Engaged by an attacker, moving any significant distance away from the attacker will provoke a Disengagement Attack. A Disengagement Attack has an inherent Accuracy bonus, does significantly more damage than a standard attack, and will call a hit reaction animation while momentarily stopping the character's movement. When it's initiated, a Disengagement Attack automatically breaks Engagement on the target, but if the target is also the attacker's current melee target, the attacker will typically be able to re-establish Engagement before the target can move farther away. In this manner, melee combatants, especially ones that have high Accuracy and damage per hit, have a solid mechanic for keeping enemies close to them -- or making the cost of escape extremely expensive. Of course, there are other ways to end Engagement. If the attacker switches to a non-melee weapon or performs a non-melee-based action, Engagement immediately ends. If the attacker moves away from their Engagement targets, is paralyzed, knocked down, or otherwise prevented from maintaining a threat, Engagement will also immediately end. If the attacker has a limited number of Engagement targets (as most do) and switches his or her attack focus to a different character, Engagement immediately ends. We believe that Engagement can give AI a clear "decision point" where they can evaluate the threat of their new status and choose the appropriate course of action. For player-controlled characters, it makes melee enemies more potent threats and presents players with tactical challenges to solve. We want Engagement to be a mechanic that players and enemies can mess with using a variety of class Abilities and general Talents, so we will be experimenting with a variety of elements to that end: Fighters' Defender mode allows them to engage two additional targets and increases the range at which they engage targets. This gives fighters much greater capability to control the area around them. The limited-use Escape ability lets rogues break Engagement without provoking a Disengagement Attack. It is generally best used when the rogue's enemy is preoccupied with another target. Barbarians can use Wild Rush to temporarily ignore the movement stop and hit reactions from Engagement and Disengagement Attacks, respectively -- though they can still suffer massive damage while powering through. The wizards' Grimoire Slam allows them to attack an enemy in melee with their magically-charged grimoires, unleashing a concussive wave of energy on contact. If it hits, the attack knocks the target back, usually far enough to break Engagement in the process. Additionally, creatures may have their own special abilities related to Engagement and Disengagement Attacks. We hope that the system itself is easy to understand but allows for increasingly complex tactical considerations over the course of the game." There seem to be quite a lot of stuff built around this combat feature. Sensuki, if you would devote your research to making Engagement as perfect as possible, how would such an Engagement and Disengagement mechanic look like?

Obsidian, just a humble suggestion: Do a few mini-patches for the pc, where rudimentary versions of various Disengagement solutions have been applied to the PoE BB - then use the community to see which seem to work best as far as gameplay and combat pacing go. If you do take this step, please act on this opportunity with haste, since X-Mas is coming up fast. Use your community - we love to serve.

Obsidian, just a humble suggestion: Do a few mini-patches for the pc, where rudimentary versions of various Disengagement solutions have been applied to the PoE BB - then use the community to see which seem to work best as far as gameplay and combat pacing go. If you do take this step, please act on this opportunity with haste, since X-Mas is coming up fast. Use your community - we love to serve. EDIT: Oops! Wrong thread.

It's so neat that it deserves a bump. Also, why can't some kind mod sticky this Dev Tracker on this very forum? Please, dearest moderators?

Doppelschwert: In part, you misunderstand his idea. There will never be any cycling going on in any easy manner. Also, with such a system in this pretty quick RTwP-CRPG with a full party, all members doing their stuff (some may even be blocked out, knocked out or wiped out), good luck even trying to achieve such easy shifts. In fact, even pulling them off would be more or less fringe behaviour, worthy of an achievement, almost (perhaps on some boss, it could work).

I agree with your criticism of #3, Doppelschwert. However, I reckon, Raz is right in his ambition of including some player agency into it all. On #2, I disagree. Raz's solution there wouldn't make Disengagement pointless in any manner or form. In fact, it would work beautifully and would vary baddies in interesting ways, including "bosses" and strategic ambushes etc.

Lovely thread! I just thought I'd drop this link here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69582-razs-perspective-a-dissertation-on-engagement-mechanics/ It's a link to Razsius' great thread on how Disengagement works and not works at the moment in the PoE BB. For any casual players, his OP is a great read, because you'll get one or two Eureka-moments from reading it, I promise you.

rjshae & Enoch: Yeah. I'd better stay away from any replays soon. In that way, I'll get to keep my "mind filled in the gaps"-version intact.

A great write-up, Raz! I agree 100% on everything, but especially with #5 you manage to very clearly show that engagement targeting clauses never should affect the player. It's bizarre and confusing for the player during combat - it's one of them hidden culprits that makes you feel helpless during combat in PoE. A ZoC, where you get slowed (very reasonable in a RTwP-game), and improved visual feedback on this engagement attacks (which Josh has hinted at is in the works), I really think Disengagement would work.