IndiraLightfoot

Shades, I loved Bubble Bobble, and I was a teenager at that time! :D And the rest of your list is like walking down memory lane, but with one exception, I got tired of DA O very fast: I choked on the Darkspawn and they choked on me. But if we speak favourites I must say Macbeth's list is more or less spot on: Great taste there! And I think I'll side with these two guys as well as far as their arguments go, since there seems to be another divide here: that between opinionated fanatics and relaxed folks with open minds that enjoy playing and discussing good games. For the forum's sake, can those who have an urge to put people with other opinions down at least relax a little bit? There are no wars here, orthodox bigotry seems completely out of place here on Obsidian's doorstep. We'll have to put our faith in these guys making great decisions for this game. They have already told us what the inspiration for it is, so it will not under any circumstances be some weird DA 2/D III-clone. Let's discuss the game and come with suggestions, polls and new ideas instead of mudslinging and digging trenches to hide in. Peace, CRPG-lovers!

I don't know, having a "circus" or "arena" or "fight club" has been done so many times. I've never really liked the idea. As for soloing the game, sure, but be prepared to have some NPC companions now and then that won't leave you NWN2 style. At least if that makes sense to all the stories involved, coz story goes first.

Osvir, I've never played WoW, nor do I intend to, so I wouldn't know. But if for argument's sake some clever fatigue-mechanism is used for spells and stamina and so forth, as has been proposed by others, then I think it becomes a logical step to have a simple binary pair, FATIGUE-REST in an edless tug-of-war in the very game mechanics. This would make sense, however, the label of what you do in the room of an inn or on a cover on a forest floor could be "sleeping". And Lady Evenstar, you are right, a strict 16 h limit seems absurd. But a 6 h or so limit for the game concept of "having slept" could be used.

Perhaps I'm going too far now, but what about scrapping "sleep" and make any rest at inns a high-quality resting with some temporary perk being turned on for like two hours? You know, like all those scattered priests giving the party blessings of all kinds.

An assorted collection, and even the same kind of baddies should be of great diversity. Great numbers of foes, as in endless hordes pouring out of rabbit holes, is not my cup of tea, fewer foes that make for exciting encounters is what makes me tick.

Bendu, Obsidian mob chilling out at the bar (correction: at the studio, it seems) with some suave moves, simply genius!

Partyspoiler!

2.3 reached! Time for a new stretch goal, and guess which name should crown that one? Ziets! Puhretty Puhleez!

Congratz to OE! And yes, a really deep dungeon, so funky and foul that even fungi shrivel up and die in its moist recesses. What horrors will lurk down there? I keep my fingers crossed for some undead abominations.

Pope, that is a splendid idea! I really think you've given Obsidian some food for thought there!

Only 2 000 dollars til godlike races and a load of thumbscrew modes for the masochists! :D I loved the genasi in Mask of the betrayer, especially air genasi, and Anjali the fire archon in DS III was not too bad either, so I do of course hope for elemental godlike races. What do you hope for?

But a brilliant bard with distinct gestures over at Pork & Whistle pronounces it "Da Hood".... And he is rhyming too.

BGS, you're absolutely right about rogues not being main damage dealer as some weird standard, but if you make a particular kind of rogue, it could happen. And bounty hunters in BG2 had a great charm about them.

Funny, I feel the exact opposite, altough I can see where youäre coming from. I loved the surprise of noting that it was a no-rest-area to begin with.

As long as there's diversity I'm a happy camper: And backstabbing abilities for any kind of class is not a bad idea at all. On a similar note, I think thieves, scoundrels, cutpurses, assassins need even more beef to their attacks and stamina. I think it is waste if having a rogue in the party is the same as the sneaky little helper - he/she open locks, disable traps, find secret doors, takes a careful listen and hear that faint fart of the bugbear two corners away.

Hmm, what was my favourite character in MotB? Let me guess... Kaelyn, of course! And Ziets did such a great job on Mask of the Betrayer, which alone would be a reason for me to back this great project! Please bring that excellent writer back for PE!! With Avellone (who wrote the character Kaelyn IIRC) and Fenstermaker (after South Park) and other talents at Obsidian, there will be a legendary game, I just know it! Forget the stretch goal, just announce that he will be involved in structuring some of this world's overarching aspects and dilemmas, and the Kickstarter will break 3 million for sure. Just do it!

The more I read these interesting threads about rasting and fatigue, the more confused I get. Many games in the 80s and 90s gave me resting/sleeping fatigue, hehe. So, I've posted elsewhere that I really don't want to see fatigue, hunger, thirst and so forth. It is too realistic and tedious for a fantasy game with heroes and all. However, resting/sleeping is almost always part of a CRPG-package. However, in NWN2 it got absurd, resting was literally a quick countdown. But, come to think of it, there were certain dungeons where no resting was allowed, and I loved those: You ran out of spells, potions, scrolls and what not. So, perhaps I'm willing to reconsider some of your ideas of fatigue. I mean Runequest was a great game, where mana wasn't just regenerated in a snap. The idea of some kind of economy of heroic resources is perhaps not so bad, after all. It just needs some tweaking and it would be great if it gave another rhythm to resting. Like Adhin wrote, resting a while should be enough, and start to give back some powers etc. But I'd prefer if it takes quite some time and that recuperation is slow in pace. I would hate for some cooldown, and then like at a pling from a microwave you're baked and ready, maxed out for the next encounter. I want to some strategy, shortage of resources and a sense of "stress".

Nor do I, especially given that the devs said something about positioning in combat will be important in PE in the last Kickstarter-update. Positioning the party is something that I always enjoyed immensely in IE-games, and too some extent in NWN1 and NWN2 as well.

I love the lich concept as well! Imagine some possible path in some story of PE, where your greed, necromantic interests or evil tendencies may turn you into a lich. But alas, your phylactery is stolen and taken for ransom! Then if you were intent on doing reasonably good and lawful deeds before, you are forced by the extortionists to do horrible deeds that of course affect the overall campaign, so you have no choice but to take that phylactery back, and if it's not intact at the end of that mission, you're bones will be left to bleach somewhere. And if you succeed, then follows an optional mission of somehow shaking you lichdom like some foul disease. :D

If you've ever played Mask of the Betrayer for NWN2, you would know you can have it all, and that Obsidian can provide that Planescape-feel for you! You have the barbarian hall, for instance, where even a mundane animal like a badger can be a monumental torment in the soul of even a souleater!

This line in the last Kickstarter-update put a smile on my face: "[PE] will have a large number of optional specializations and alterations to give players a high level of flexibility in developing an individual character's particular style." And given all the great input in this thread, we are quite a few who want to see that "large number" proliferate even further. Perhaps the descriptions of the weapons for some of the classes felt a bit too locked up in the traditional classes: I mean, I would love to see a non-tanking mage in no more than a tattered robe frantically pace around with a morning star in each hand. And guess what? He's actually seriously swift and deadly with them. And why? Because he's specialized himself in the absurd art of wielding a morning star in each hand (Perhaps the player put a lot of dex and wpn spec into that character at the expense of other things). With PE, Obsidian has the chance to build something that's free from some of the restraints of RPG-traditions. I adore D&D, but I would be happy if they dared step out of some of those givens too for the sake of character diversity and customization. One of the stretch goals at 2.6 Mill sounds like great fun: the Adventure Hall, where you can design your entire party, eventually. In my manu playthrus of BG I soon left behind the classic companions and built my entire party, just like did when NWN2 got the Storm of Zehir-expansion. I just can't get enough of making motley adventure crews that take on games with great stories and choices.

By "interesting" you mean awful, right? My memory of NWN2 OC is thankfully hazy, but from what I remember it took much of the challenge from the game - just click a button and suddenly everyone is healed and all spells and abilities are restored. Compare that to the MoTB where resting actually advances time 8 hours, something that is a problem because of the spirit hunger - now that is what I call interesting. :D Yes, I meant awful, coz it filled no real purpose. But, mind you, I'm a huge fan of NWN2 OC too. It has nothing on MotB, though.

I don't worry too much if the classes are relatively few. But I do worry about the diversity of feats and skills available to us when we make a character and then level them up. Here's my thoughts on this: For the love of god, no skill trees married with a lack of real abilities! Just look how much people love them in games like WoW, Diablo 3 or Kingdoms of Amalur. Loads of players are disappointed, because the choices are few and the valid choices are even more rare. I really do think abilities of the sort: STR, INT, WIS, DEX, CON, CHA, really work. And I love to distribute points in them. And I would like to have levels that do come with plenty of choices for new feats and skills that weave into choices you make with the abilities. Please, Obsidian, I'd much rather you go overtop with feats and skills, so the number of possible combinations are hard to keep count of. And dont worry too much about balance. I have no problem with someone finding some OP-combo that is a bit extreme and far-fetched, coz the game shouldn't be about number-crunching and effective characters, it is the adventure and the stories that count. Then again, I love that dreaming in front of juicy character creation screen, where I get overwhelmed by all the whimsical choices and twists and turns. It can even be a bit obscure as long as the diversity and variety is there. All in all, you've got the system right when ten people make ten human fighters and they can be quite different from one another already at the outset. I think there are many people who long for a complexity and richness of builds that simple isn't there anymore in CRPGs. I want character choice-dependent "builds" (pretty bad word, but better than the dreaded "toons"), and not loot-n-gold dependent ones.

Well spoken, DCParry! For all of us who have played these computer games since the 80s soon realized that "resting" in a digital game context was nothing like resting in a session of pen-n-paper role playing. Just think of NWN2, there resting was just a countdown, which certainly gives the countdown-discussion an interesting twist. It has played out its role, and so has a lot of tedious clicking and other boring chores that were part and parcel of many pen-n-paper ports to the digital arena of games. There must be loads of better ways to address RPG adventuring in a computer game today. And countdowns and passives can be made into whatever new Obsidian wants to do with them. I certainly do not like many ARPGs and MMOs of late, and wouldn't want those systems for a party RPG inspired by, say, BG2, Planescape and MotB. But if something takes some enjoyment out of a game, making it meaningless, tedious or even absurd, then those systems should be replaced with new systems, and that is not the same as click-fest-streamlining, it's just common sense.

I just realized: How much action shall this PE-combat have? What pace? I'm rather old school, and given the party-based IE-feel to it so far, I would have the party-strategy aspect as the priority, and action and colourful spells and explosions as something I wouldn't prioritize. In many ways I think NWN2 was a good compromise in that regard. Something that received some criticism was the slightly stiff combat sequences (but those complaining did so on grounds of animation and available weapon models animated IIRC). Ideally, I could live without tapping a mouse-button like a madman or going all out combat, like God of War or Kingdoms of Amalur. I want the party RPG aspect to shine and stand out.