dunehunter

One question after all the 24 page discussion. So how do we define which talent is a class talent, which is a non-class talent...? I assume we use POE 1 as a reference, so any talent which is a generic talent in POE 1 should be added to the general talent pool right?

... you identify a problem: lack o' penetration enhancers for rogues. the solution you suggest is altering the role o' classes such as the rogue? room is too cold? could find a way to alter ambient temperature (make adjustments to penetration) or maybe wear warmer clothes (provide rogues with similar penetration talents) or 'could do like the folks in jurassic park and genetic engineer some amphibian dna into humans (make fundamental changes to the rogue class). maybe start small 'fore trying to give rogue's antifreeze blood. consensus is extreme elusive on these boards. get a clear majority o' folks to agree 'pon anything is difficult. nevertheless, have seen very little resistance to the notion o' deadfire's penetration mechanic requiring, at the very least, fine tuning. 'fore we throw in the towel on the rogue as striker, might wanna wait more than 1 whole week of beta. am suspecting penetration is gonna be altered more than once. HA! Good Fun! Not Rogue but Barbarian, I think they are more like Striker/Defender than the role they are defined right now based on their abilities both active and passive. Rogue is fine but a little bit lackluster without penetration if played as single class.

Now now, that is the exception not the rule A Soul Assassin (hey, I like this name !) character actually requires some planning, and, for a rogue, it comes with a huge trade-off : you're going to invest heavily into stealth to land those assassinates, instead of mechanics. This means if you want a trapper, and by the looks of things with traps inflicting injuries we'll all want a trapper, you need to have another character dedicated to mechanics. I very much like the assassin/soulblade synergy, and yet it's quite the investment, party-composition wise. I don't agree, with good stealth character u can solo the game. And u don't need very high stealth to do it, 6 stealth is enough so u can invest in mechanics. Wait, you've seen the whole game ? Look at you lucky guy I'm jesting, the point is, you've not seen 5% of the game, so allow me to correct your statement : you can solo 5% of the game Yeah I think I made a careless assumption about soloing the game with stealther when the game is not out. But my point is it's not an exception. I soloed the Titan on PotD with a lot class combos. This mini boss just not feel that powerful.

I feel a bit sad for Rogue because they are labeled as Strikers but they don't have anyway to get bonus penetration other than multi-class (not include assassin here because backstab is a different playstyle). A pure Rogue feels weak comparing with other Strikers. And Barbarians are not even Strikers but they do better here. Maybe Obsidian should reconsider the roles of classes...

Now now, that is the exception not the rule A Soul Assassin (hey, I like this name !) character actually requires some planning, and, for a rogue, it comes with a huge trade-off : you're going to invest heavily into stealth to land those assassinates, instead of mechanics. This means if you want a trapper, and by the looks of things with traps inflicting injuries we'll all want a trapper, you need to have another character dedicated to mechanics. I very much like the assassin/soulblade synergy, and yet it's quite the investment, party-composition wise. I don't agree, with good stealth character u can solo the game. And u don't need very high stealth to do it, 6 stealth is enough so u can invest in mechanics.

I feel this new health system makes Constitution even more useless than it is in POE 1... Since u just need to heal without worry about health.

I feel most subclasses in POE 2 have a good balance between their bonus and penalty but still there are feel bit OP or underpowered, so I wish to extend the Top Tier class thread and mainly talking about the balance of current subclasses. So I made a list of subclasses whose penalty is not enough, and another which is too much. Subclass where Bonus >> Penalty Barbarian Berserker - Bonus: Frenzy got Might/Con Inspiration upgraded to Tier 2, which gives +4 penetration and +4 armour rate, and 50% of hit to crit convert, this is God Mode in current penetration system. Penalty is Hitpoint hide and Confused, confused can be easily overcome by some multi-class combination, like Fighter, Paladin and Monk. Cipher Soul Blade - Penalty is maxed focus and start focus reduced. I personally don't think this is a penalty at all because a Soul Blade will mostly be a melee user and will not or only use these fast cast spells. So this doesn't sounds like penalty at all. Fighter Devoted - With the 3 penetration bonus I doubt u need to change weapon type that much. So the penalty is really not a big deal. Subclass where Penalty >> Bonus Fighter Black Jack - Black Jacks lose their core ability Constant Recovery to trade with another weapon set and reduced swap time. I can accept penalty to Constant Recovery, but totally disable it is too much. Paladin Darcozzi Paladini - All paladin bonus/penalty is not that big. But I feel Darcozzi is the worst of them. Minus one Max Zeal at beginning of the game is a lot. Meanwhile the minor flame shield is weak. Would you waste a LoH to get the minor flame shield effect? I'd rather use two FoD instead. My advice is when the paladins reach Power Lever III, their minor flame shield is upgraded to major one. Priest All subclasses - Glad this will be fixed next patch. Rogue Tricker - Penalty to reduce sneak attack seems too much for me, instead they got some minor illusion spells. Not sure if it's enough to compensate the loss. There are surely something I've not covered yet, but I feel these are the most issued subclasses.

Does the wizard side bring anything of note other than Deleterious Alacrity of Motion ? Because if not, one might be better served using potions (or boots !) or speed... As I wrote, the wizard brings awesome self buffs (esp. defensive ones). The best thing about the new Alacrity is that it gives you immunity to engagement now. The new disengagements really hurt and this way you can completely avoid them while "catching" all enemies with your multiple engagement slots. And also +100% move speed which is good because Unbroken can't move as fast as other characters. But still only a concept. Had no time to test it yet. Yeah catch all enemies while self is immune to disengagement is a smart idea !

Sworn Enemy and Marked Prey doesn't suppress each other, but there is a bug currently that their bonus don't work on ranged weapons, at least not on firearms and crossbows.

Mostly agree your tier list but one thing Soul Blade is at least Top Tier if u just use it for multiclass with a melee class instead of caster.

Yeah not sure if there are other cases, like the mace modal against these - armour rate spells, but I feel they might not stack as well. Well currently not sure if they are designed or bugged But I will post a bug on this.

Sorry just edited my post, take a look for case

For example, dagger modal Blade parrying is suppressed by Mirror Image and Warrior Stance. Rapier Needle Strike suppresses Warrior Stance and Zealot Acuracy. I'm ok if class abilities doesn't not stack with each other. But Imo Weapon Modal is a different source, it's a weapon style so it should stack with all these, otherwise there will be no points to activate them because they are all suppressed by different kind of in battle buff or class stance/auras.

I'd give Berserker a solid 9 for the huge improvement of Frenzy. Devoted a solid 9 too, but the rest 7 because fighters don't have a lot active abilities which make it too passive and not fun to play them. Well Monks have tons of good abilities, a 9 for all Monks is reasonable. Tricker might need a little big tune, perhaps boost sneak attack to +30%. For rangers, sharpshooter 8 the rest 6.

A lot buff doesn't to stack, I feel this is not coincident. One thing make me sad is Weapon modal doesn't stack with buff/spell. For example Dagger parrying blade is suppressed by Mirror Image.

Soul Blade + any melee class is pretty good too.

Btw, carnage damage didn't end dance of death, tho on its document it says ANY damage will end the dance.

Based on so many classes/subclasses I think it's kinda hard to rank all of them, I'd prefer rank different roles, like for strikers ranking strongest to weakest, and defender and etc.

I think he means counter spells in Bg2 like Dispel Magic, Breach against Protection from Magic Weapon, and Spell Immune: Protection against Dispel Magic, or True Sight against Invisibility.

Yeah this is not a Min-Max build, just a pretty fun build on dueling Any ranged attack will of course abort the dance of death sadly But it is really powerful against any melee enemies, and no matter how many enemies u engage, they cannot hurt you, while at the same time u can have lowest defense or naked, it doesn't matter, which is funny.

One of the main fun of PoE is building different type of builds. I agree with OP that it would be nice to have an arena mode that allow us to play/test our builds online against other players.

-------------------------------------------------------------- Class: Rogue/Monk -------------------------------------------------------------- Subclass: Any/Shattered Pillar -------------------------------------------------------------- Race: Death Godlike -------------------------------------------------------------- Background: Old Vailia - Artist -------------------------------------------------------------- Attributes -------------------------------------------------------------- MIG: 18 CON: 6 DEX: 19 - fast action speed help us chaining Blade turning PER: 10 - don't need high perception since we can get really high accuracy from single weapon and dance of death INT: 19 + 1 RES: 5 - We don't need defense because Blade turning will make us dodge any melee damage -------------------------------------------------------------- Proficiency -------------------------------------------------------------- Rapier Any weapon else -------------------------------------------------------------- Talents - Rogue -------------------------------------------------------------- Crippling Strike Defensive Roll Dirty Fighting -------------------------------------------------------------- Talents - Monk -------------------------------------------------------------- Lesser Wounds Modification of Soul Dance of Death + Blade Turning + Swift Furry Soul Mirror -------------------------------------------------------------- Comment: -------------------------------------------------------------- As the name of the build, this is a riposte specialist in dueling any melee enemies. Core concept of the build is to chain Blade Turning to keep us immune from melee attacks. While gaining wounds from Dance of Death. High DEX/INT help us to chain Blade Turning without problem. Synergy nicely with Dance of Death to get us infinite wounds. While provides us nice accuracy bonus, makes us critical a lot with Swift Furry. For rogue subclass, pick Street Fighter if you want to focus more on one to many fights, and pick tricker and raise Resolve if you want to make this work against Ranged enemies. Or pick devoted instead of rogue for more penetration and discipline.

Anyone tried some funny Shadowdancer build? Am thinking about a special build based on Breaking Disengagement attack. We know monk has ability to +defense against disengagement, would be funny to combo with Rogue Riposte for a build who try to trigger as many as disengagement attack as possible, and riposte enemies to death. Seems also synergy with Blade of turning and Dance of death well. Any thought on this build?

I asked if there was an unarmed modal in their live stream beta announcement and the answer I got was that monks bare fists are already OP so they don't have any plans to add one. I can't blame them because in my last playthrough as a monk I was one shotting mobs on PotD by the end of the game. That said, if you want to punch dragons to death (as is my preference ) you have to play as a monk. Ok I'm confused, perhaps the character sheet is just fcked up. Monk fists list 8-13 damage. Sabers list 21-33 damage. Long story short, I ended up playing my monk with sabers -.- Gonna have to double check that I guess... Edit: just to be on the same page here, when you talk about your last playthrough on POTD, you talkin' about DF or POE1 ? It's a bug, check your damage when you first make your monk then compare it to after the first time you load the game. It gets cut in half. Also if this is anything like PoE then fists will have fast attack speed while the sabers will have average attack speed. Right now they both have fast attack speed. Fists will be fast (assumption) and come in somewhere between 20-25 while your saber is average and coming in at 30 or so. Fists will be plenty competitive as long as they have enough penetration, which they probably won't have for every encounter so you'll end up using the sabers sometimes anyways. Yes this makes a lot sense to me, currently single hand weapon bug makes the feeling that fist is not that good, lets see how it goes after the new patch coming.

Yeah but Imo long reach weapon should have more control of battle and get larger engagement range. Thanks for mentioning.