PrimeJunta

I have nothing against high-INT barbarians. It's great they're viable and benefit from the high INT. It just doesn't sit right with me that all Pillars barbarians have to be smart. I'd like it to be possible to play a dumb brutish barbarian effectively as well.

Many fighters of legend aren't reputed to be angry at all though, and getting angry in a fight can be very dangerous. Consider the Ronda Rousey/Holly Holm match-up. From where I'm at, Rousey looked angry, Holm looked cool and collected, and she won rather handily.

It would still be beneficial, just not vital. Right now a low-INT barbarian just isn't much good: he's just a second-rate fighter. With that change, you could put the points elsewhere, pick your talents and abiltiies accordingly, and it would still be pretty good, just different. Moving it to weapon size would be more intuitive, as bigger weapons do reach further, and would put it somewhere. An alternative would be to make the AoE fixed of course.

That's true, but priests and wizards are kinda expected to be intelligent, and they have a much bigger palette of abilities (=spells) to choose from. But in any case, if you don't feel there's a problem, then I can hardly argue with that, can I now?

Frenzy should definitely still depend on INT. I'm arguing that Carnage shouldn't.

Hmmm... I'm not sure about this. I thought ciphers were a bit OP, as they could effectively open with their highest-level power (on every other level anyway), and racked up enough focus to do it again in a shot or two. This nerf sounds pretty drastic though; it won't be fun if it becomes another chanter who does nothing until it's too late to make a difference. Let's see where it ends up.

True, there is that. It would probably require something like a special barbarian talent that lets them hit even faster (or harder) with fast weapons. Yep, that would work as well.

Overall I think the attribute and class system in Pillars is pretty good at this point. There are a few things that bother me a bit though. One example is the way INT is so crucial for barbarians. Without Carnage, a barbarian is just a kind of a sucky, fragile fighter. Both Accuracy and defences are worse, the only advantage is the x6 health multiplier. Fighters even have comparable self-heals. And if you want Carnage to work, you need INT. If you want to capitalise on it, you need to max INT. So, unlike most other combat classes, there just aren't that many ways to build a barbarian. Max INT, pump MIG, put the rest into to DEX and PER to taste, and don't dump CON so low you'll keel over right away. Then play it has a human fireball. I'm thinking that Carnage shouldn't actually be affected by INT at all. If anything, it should be affected by weapon choice -- bigger weapons (which hit less often) have a larger radius. (Not necessarily weapon reach though, otherwise Tall Grass would be the only reasonable weapon choice for barbs, what with the Prone on Crit and all.) INT would still be highly beneficial as it would determine the duration of Frenzy, Savage Defiance, and others, but it wouldn't be the must-have it is now. It would become possible to dump it and put the points into attack or defence instead, that sort of thing. Thoughts?

Yeah def. look for those low numbers. If you're not doing any damage there are two reasons: either the defence you're targeting is too high and you're not scoring any hits, or the DR for the damage type you're doing is too high so your hits won't get much damage through.

+1 on the display + Prestige bonus idea. Cool out-of-the-box thinking there! -1 on the crafting idea. Crafting is already a bit too easy; making it even moreso would dilute the impact of finding cool items further.

Uh... yes? (That said, I actually dig all the rebalancing that's going on. Forces me to try new classes and approaches.)

Some quickfire thoughts -- (1) Yeah the stronghold sucks. They're addressing some of the problems in it with 3.0, but I doubt it'll be enough to turn it into something that's genuinely enjoyable in its own right. Still, going from "Average Adventure" to "Find the murderer's thumb" is indisputably an improvement. (2) No the shops/upgrades aren't useless. In particular the curio shop and botanical garden are essential if you want to get seriously into crafting, and Azzurro the merchant has some seriously interesting loot for sale. (3) The game you're describing could turn out good, or bad, or middling, but it wouldn't have much to do with Pillars, and wouldn't be much like the games that inspired it either. The best precedents for strongholds done right in the Pillars lineage/family are in Baldur's Gate 2 and NWN 2 OC. In BG2 there were different strongholds with different classes. They didn't have all that much content, after the initial quest that got them for you, but the content that was there was hand-crafted, unique, and interesting. (For the most part, the thieves' guild kind of sucked.) In NWN 2 OC, the latter part of the game revolved around building up and defending the stronghold. All the quests revolved around it. It worked really well and gave a great sense of accomplishment as you progressed in it. That and the trial were IMO the best parts of a highly uneven game. Either of these approaches would work for a Pillars-style game.

(1) Priest (2) Paladin .... (3) Druid Priests have far and away the best healing and buff spells -- although note: if you play them right, you'll barely need the healing, as the buffs will stop you from getting damaged in the first place. Paladin abilities are really fast and really punchy: a Lay On Hands will get a wounded party member to full strength, and a Reviving Exhortation will do the same for a knocked-out one. Priest heals and revives can affect multiple party members, but the effect isn't as powerful for each. So on balance and when played right... let me put it this way: I usually end up ditching the priest for the paladin. Druids are fantastic all-rounders, and they have some highly useful healing spells as well, Moonwell for example.

@Boeroer, great advice but the man said he's green. He has no idea what Tidefall, Shod-In-Faith, Berserker's Belt, or Durgan Refinement are. (Not to mention that it's really fun to discover those items, and others, by yourself.) Want a two-hander damager barbarian? Pumping INT is kind of a must, because of carnage. I wouldn't dump any stat below 8 or so to start with. You will want MIG, DEX, and PER in some order. RES and CON are less important. Re talents and abilities, Barbaric Yell is extremely useful early on, later on you might regret not picking Frenzy (although you can always respec, ugh). Savage Defiance is kind of a must, especially if you went with Frenzy. Then go with WF: Soldier (greatswords and pikes, there are excellent ones to be had) or WF: Adventurer (estocs baby, estocs!), Accurate Carnage, Vulnerable Attack (less important if you picked WF: Adventurer, because estocs already have DR reduction), and whatever else you think is cool. Basically: pick any talent that enhances Carnage. Meaning, increases your Accuracy generally or specifically for Carnage, increases damage per hit, increases armor penetration, and so on. Apply the same philosphy to items: wear the lightest armour you can get away with (for maximum attack speed), and stack damage in any way you can. Your deflection will be kinda lousy whatever you do so you might as well neglect it and rely on your self-heals plus buffs from other party members instead. And yeah, you will be keeling over a lot. Luckily you have that naff 6 x health/endurance multiplier.

I dunno really, I've gotten the biggest kicks out of exploring how they work. If I knew all that from day one I would've lost that. If you want one piece of advice, it's this: the game is actually easy. You just have to figure out how to play it.

I have been a staunch supporter of the hats party since day 1. And I want a haberdasher.

(1) Complicated (2) Functionally equivalent to permadeath (i.e., an automatic reload trigger for almost all players) I.e., :thumbsdown: on this. If you want that experience, just get rid of the dual health bar and put in permadeath, it's much simpler.

"Chanter skeleton summons set to 2nd level" -- did the skeletons also receive a buff? Asking because they're rather totally useless compared to Reny Daret's Ghost as it is. I wouldn't take it at 1st level in its current state, never mind 2nd.

Now I'm feeling a twinge of regret at having gone with GoG rather than Steam. Would be quite curious to check out and give feedback on these changes... Oh well, gods-speed to the rest of you!

Yeah it sounds like you're just going in early to some areas. Searing Falls and Pearlwood Bluff are nasty at that level. Come back later and you can properly show them who's boss.

Yeah, partial, but sometimes insufficient IMO. Big AoE spells which do nasty things to the whole party take too long to counter with them and you'll burn through all four pretty quickly for example. Ogre druids with their insects, Cean Gwla with the Paralyzing scream etc. Having a Ring of Unshackling just makes those situations a lot easier and less micro.

I've had the best overall experience with my Tiny Thunder From Down Under party. It's low-micro, robust, powerful, and versatile. Not no-micro, mind, but low-micro. I used "little people" as the theme for aesthetic reasons, but you could substitute other story companions or do it differently. Here's what I did: Front line -- 1. PC paladin (Goldpact Knights). Build as pure tank/support. Ignore all offensive abilities; instead, give two auras (Zealous Charge and Zealous Endurance), and Bond of Duty (gives bonuses against Charm and such when applying Liberating Exhortation.) Equip in heavy armour, big shield, Marking weapon as soon as you find one. 2. Hiravias. Build defensively: Cautious Attack, Sword and Shield style. Heavy armour, big shield. Most of the time he'll just be standing there stopping movement, but in the tougher fights you will want to use his fantastic CC spells. The cone-shaped ones become extremely powerful and easy because he's in the front line where people won't get in the way. Give him a Marking weapon as soon as you get one. 3. Hireling paladin (Darcozzi). Give him Flames of Devotion, but otherwise build as tank/support. Be sure to give Liberating Exhortation with Inspiring Liberation (long-term +10 ACC to an ally), Marking weapon as soon as you find one. (Substitute Pallegina if you want, you'll miss out on Inspiring Liberation though.) Back line: 1. Sagani 2. Hireling Ranger 3. Hireling Ranger Build the back line for squishy or semi-squishy damage dealing. Weapon Focus Soldier, arquebus or arbalest, Swift Aim, Swift and Steady, the rest into talents boosting pet damage. Have one of the rangers take Faithful Companion, and remember which pet is the one affected. Front line gets any ol' one-handed weapon for a main (won't be doing much damage anyway), and pistols/blunderbusses for a second weapon. Use a party formation with the beasts up front, then the front line, then the second line. In open areas, re-form to have the beasts protect the flanks. Keep Zealous Rush active. Most trash fights will go just by select-all and auto-attack, then fall back and regroup if getting mobbed. Or you can park the group in a choke point, switch on Zelous Endurance, have your paladins Lay On Hands on the beasts to keep them up, while the back row does the damage. For tougher fights, once you have Marking weapons on your tanks, group them in threes: beast + front-line + beast's owner, and have each group for three target an enemy at a time. The beast will get +10 ACC from marking (and another +10 if you've given the paladin Coordinated Attacks, and another +10 if the Darcozzi uses Liberating Exhortation on them), the ranger will get +10 from coordinating with the pet (Stalker's Link), and you will see them explode into giblets pretty quickly. For the really tough ones, have Hiravias/the druid fire Returning Storm or any other CC spells to taste, otherwise as above. For fampyrs, spores, and other Charm/Dominate-spamming enemies, apply Goldpact Liberation on the Faithful Companion, and have it run around soaking the Charm attempts (it'll be as good as immune). Then fight as usual. And, of course, you can further even the odds with an alpha strike -- have the front row fire off a shot from the blunderbusses or pistols (with Flames of Devotion from the paladin(s) that have it), then switch to shields. The rangers will keep a steady hail of bolts/balls though, which with the pet abilities will wreck things pretty quick even without it. Oh, and, do try to get a Ring of Unshackling as soon as possible; that's the one priest spell that really has no substitute.

I minmax and I don't solo (much). If you do it right, it does make things a little easier. OTOH if done wrong it can make things a lot harder! It's by no means crucial though, so if you have an aesthetic aversion to it then by all means go with a somewhat more even stat distribution. It's not necessarily even any weaker, you might just want to play it a little differently. (I've only played solo builds very little, but my limited experience with it is actually the opposite -- I've had more luck with well-rounded builds because there are no other party members to compensate for the holes dumping something leaves.)

Yeah, there is too much filler. Same with the lagufaeth -- the first group you encounter is an exciting challenge, the second is a chance to prove that you now know how to beat them, and from there on out it's just a drag. There's too much of that kind of thing in Pillars. (Pearlwood Bluff and those endless groups of drakes is the worst offender IMO though.)

I wonder what the next step up from Legendary is, for Pillars 2. "Fabulous?"