Grimlorn

Yeah we're whiners because we're discussing how much time and resources it takes to create romances and how they tend to feel tacked on in RPGs and ruin them. That's why we want to create another thread/poll so we can get a poll that says we're the majority on the forums. Real rational btw. Adding any type of feature to the game costs resources - you just think that adding romances is a waste of resources because you do not like them. And this is really the only thread where the the fans (here: haters) stubbornly DEMAND something from Obsidian instead of ONLY making a recommendation. You cannout demand anything from Obsidian, it is all up to them; you and I have to accept whatever decision they make. Nice try, but read my posts. I haven't demanded anything from Obsidian. I want them to do their own thing regardless of what I think. But if no one speaks up against this, then Obsidian might have seen a pro romance thread and thought they had to do it. The pro-romance crowd are the ones insisting that they get romances at the expense of other features and character writing. If that's not crazy and entitled, I don't know what is. And this is the difference between us. I'm sure that the people who are against romances will still get the game even if they are in there (as long as they aren't like Bioware's), but quite a few of you that are for romance would cancel your pledges today if they announced there would be no romances because you don't actually like RPGs.

For the umpteenth time, every single Obsidian game that was good except, kind of, FO:NV, has had romances. Y'all's claim that romances ruin RPGs is quite frankly baseless nonsense. You're right ruin is an exaggeration, but those games weren't better for them and they were bad in some of those games. They added nothing and weren't necessary to anyone besides people who can't play RPGs without them and they're the minority. And no I'm not counting Deionarra from PST as a romance. I'm talking about the PC pursuing relationships with his/her companions. With all the time it takes to write these characters and their limited budget, why would you insist that they add romances into the game? Answer: Entitlement

This. By doing that, the only one who truly loses is Obsidian. Do we really want Obsidian to lose? Obsidian doesn't need us. It's not like they lose anything from ignoring this discussion. It's not like the pro-romance crowd has provided any special insight besides, "I need romances or I won't be as immersed in the game."

Yeah we're whiners because we're discussing how much time and resources it takes to create romances and how they tend to feel tacked on in RPGs and ruin them. That's why we want to create another thread/poll so we can get a poll that says we're the majority on the forums. Real rational btw.

There doesn't need to be 2 romance threads. And I see the same 5-6 pro-romance people too, like you.

I didn't even think it took 2-3 months to write a character and that's quick. I definitely don't want them wasting any time on romance, especially if they're not fans of romance and don't want it themselves. Appeasing the romance crowd would make them justified in romance needing to be a part of RPGs, that you can't have a great RPG without one these days.

I always wondered if they uncensored the DVD of those episodes? Did anyone ever check it out? I figured the speech at the end would've explained why they were portraying Muhammad and bring some sense to this Muslim conflict. I always wondered what the episode would have looked like. Anyways, Comedy Central are a bunch pussies for censoring that episode. They're basically saying it's ok for them to profit off of making fun of every other religion, but when it comes to Muslims that's off limits because an American Muslim threatened them. So they gave up their freedom of speech not out of respect for religion but out of fear and cowardice.

If a woman pledges an extra $100, I'll go on a date with her. (money for date not included) Just want to do my part to help the guys at Obsidian.

Hookers and blow cost money. Keep giving it to them.

Don't link to the Bioware forums. Also no one cares what you asked for in DA3. Just because you spent 1 post not talking about romance doesn't vindicate you or that community.

Would you say I'm the best of the worst or the worst of the worst? I'd say you're the worst of the worst of the worst, but I'm a pretty nice guy.

I wasn't making a statement disqualifying romance people - I was just curious to see if the Bioware regulars were the regular pro-romance people.

How many pro-romance people are from Bioware?Maybe we should create a poll.

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I also can't believe you're using Kotor as an example. You contradict yourself saying you don't want an endless stream of XP but then complain that you were level capped at the end of Kotor and weren't getting XP for the last area. If there is a leveling system, level caps are good because it makes it easier to balance combat and make it challenging towards the end of the game. If you have a lot of side quests/content and no level cap, then you have to make the game easy enough for someone to skip all of that and still beat the game. Meanwhile, someone that does most or all of the side quests levels up much more and makes the end game trivial.

Who cares?

No one is bashing Bioware. They're main feature in their games is romances. While Obsidian's strengths are usually towards characters, dialogue and story. Bioware lately is all about the romance and action combat. It's not bashing when it's true or it's your opinion about their games. It's about being anti both since Bioware is always pro-romance.

I need "me" time, so no multiplayer.

Has anyone who says Kotor 2 had good romances actually played Kotor 2 recently? I played and beat it last month when the restored content mod was finished. Visas is hitting on you right away for no reason. And as soon as Visas joins your party the Handmaiden is jealous of her. These romances were pretty Biowarian in that they only required about 2-3 conversations with them before they were in love with you. And both pursue/want you.

No, in RPGs there are choices. In books you're being told a story. In RPGs you're role playing the character in the story. You can't make every game story about the romance with the romance being a main theme of the game. It makes no sense to do this. And even if you do it, it's one character of one sex. That means people who aren't attracted to that sex, which is about half, won't have a romance, so what happens they petition for their option for romance, and then their favorite characters they can't romance. It's a dumb, slippery slope where romance is the main theme of the game instead of the role playing elements.

I think the real question is: Are polls of polls helpful to Obsidian?

Why is that sad? I'm an adult and feel completely comfortable calling videogames one of my guilty juvenile pleasures. I don't look to them to fulfil me the same way an Ingmar Bergman film or T.S. Eliot poem would. I play videogames to play games. To have fun using strategy, solving puzzles and hopefully get entertained with some fresh, interesting and well-implemented stories and ideas. But even the most well-written games (PS:T for instance) do not come anywhere near the most well-written films, books or poems. It is what it is. UH OH CUE VIDEOGAMES VS ART CONVERSATION IN 3...2...1... Video games are art, in that they are a creative product of human mind. They are not art by definition in terms of conveying some deeper meaning, evoking thoughts and feelings. But nontheless, I would count a few games in there. Yes, PS:T included. Now, you do realise that having so hostile attitude towards differing opinions as yours is quite impolite, do you? You're the one getting hostile. You're the one acting like Obsidian owes you something because you donated to the kickstarter and anyone that doesn't agree with you is "hostile".

That's the thing. Everyone that's pro romance has played a lot if not all of Bioware's recent games. They obviously are doing something right for you to still want them in RPGs and think they're a good thing. They've made it popular by inserting it into every game they make for their fans and they love them for it.

Oh I know they enjoy them, but they also want more of the game about them, and they admit the ones from Bioware no longer satisfy them and aren't as good looking back. If the shoe fits...I've actually seen people on the Bioware forums ask for the same stuff. It's not really insulting or mocking if it's true. I don't know what you mean by this, but Obsidian owes you nothing just because you want a romance and donated. It's a donation not an investment.

I think this may be a reason why romances in games you've mentioned well, sucked (KOTOR had some good parts, but far from being significantly better). BioWare treats romance as fanservice, they literally throw it into their games because, well, it sells. Their fanbase largely likes it, but they do feel stupid, rushed, unnatural and forced because they do not consist an actual part of the plot. Good romances in other types of media are always parts of the story itself, and should be treated as such. So it's writing quality we are talking about here. You're talking about different forms of media. It's not in every movie or book btw, not even the majority. But in every RPG it's asked for and it's in almost all mainstream RPGs being released. I don't want to play a 30+ hour game that is about a romance because people want a romance integrated into the story. I hate soap operas and that's what it would be. Movies are only 1.5-2 hours long. You can avoid romance novels by not reading them.

There was a mod released recently for NWN2 that converted IWD to the NWN2 engine. You made that point about iso games like IWD being better to play in engines like NWN2, go try that and tell me it's better in the NWN2 engine than the IE.