Grimlorn

Sounds great guys.

Unless his wife is a dude. Psyche! Couldn't be bi because those people don't actually exist.

Nice logical fallacy there. How do you know that they aren't? I know that I am. I go to a Lutheran University, and within a months time I'll be delivering a speech on GLBT awareness. Asking for realistic inclusion within the media is also asking for equality. It's the same fight in different theaters of war. Yes because fighting for equal rights and the right to marry in the real world is a lot like fighting for having special characters in a video game that explain their sexuality to the player to pander to gay people. Different theaters of war indeed.

People tend to like seeing characters they can identify with in various ways. If you consider that pandering, much of the game is. True but you don't see those people getting together and petitioning for representation, and furthermore you don't always see those characters always represented in every game. It differs from game to game based around what the devs want, and not what they are pressured into doing by entitled people. Most minorities are represented by default nowadays and do not NEED to get together and petition for representation. There is still major opposition to gay characters in games (or dialogue options that allow players to role-play as gay). So what if there is major opposition to gay people? Go out and fight against the discrimination instead of acting like you're being discriminated in a game if you're not represented in it. I mean why are you wasting your time here asking for gay characters in a video game instead of fighting for gay marriage or to be treated equally. I mean do you see how absurd that is?

Obsidian wouldn't be doing a kickstarter if they just wanted to make the most money by making mainstream games. They'd just make AAA action RPGs that are shallow and pander to all groups while selling 3+ million copies. Of course they might end up like Bioware where DA2 and ME3 weren't well received and TOR is about to go free to play because they tried too hard to pander to their market and made terrible games instead. I think my point went a bit over your head, i even added a quote by Carlin in the end to make sure that people got the joke I got the point of your post and the joke at the end. If you were being sarcastic with the market info then yeah I didn't get that because it sounded like you were trying to make a legitimate point. If you were making a legitimate point then you didn't get the points in my post.

Obsidian wouldn't be doing a kickstarter if they just wanted to make the most money by making mainstream games. They'd just make AAA action RPGs that are shallow and pander to all groups while selling 3+ million copies. Of course they might end up like Bioware where DA2 and ME3 weren't well received and TOR is about to go free to play because they tried too hard to pander to their market and made terrible games instead.

People tend to like seeing characters they can identify with in various ways. If you consider that pandering, much of the game is. True but you don't see those people getting together and petitioning for representation, and furthermore you don't always see those characters always represented in every game. It differs from game to game based around what the devs want, and not what they are pressured into doing by entitled people.

No the game should only feature white Anglo Saxon Protestant heterosexual male characters. Do you not realize how bigoted it is to not want minorities in games? Or they should be but shouldn't ask for it? Let me just get back to the back of the bus with Rosa Parks then. Never said I didn't want minorities. I just think the devs should have the creative freedom to choose what kind of characters they have instead of minorities lobbying for special treatment and demanding it. I mean look at your reaction to my post, people are bigoted for not wanting to give minorities special treatment? If Obsidian doesn't include gays are they homophobes? If they don't include black people or latinos are they racist? It's some kind of sick joke and the LGBT community are just pressuring the devs to include them instead of letting Obsidian do their own thing. Being included in a video game is not special treatment. Do you also think using the same water fountain is special treatment? And yes, making a game without any representation of minorities is pretty bigoted. Its not pressuring, its saying to them "you have gay fans, we'd love to be represented in this new game." Being included isn't special treatment. Getting together and asking to be included is special treatment.I'm just going to ignore the water fountain comment because it's nonsense. My point is you can't represent every minority and you're wrong for considering it bigoted not to include the one you're from while ignoring other minorities that happen to not be included due to design decisions. Gay people aren't special. They're just people.

First, there is a difference. Homosexuality is something that has existed in every culture, at every moment, in every place of the world. Sometimes hidden and punished, sometimes openly but it's universal at least in the human species. I have a hard time imagining how something so incredibly important cannot be included if other mature theme (and especially if any sexual theme) is present inside the game, even more when the game itself want to ensure the immersion of the player in a credible world. But the fact is it's a minority that probably only makes up about 2-5% of the population and that doesn't mean there needs to be special considerations for them in video games, or really anything really. When I meet people I don't find out if they are gay or bi or whatever. They're just people. I don't care about their sexuality and different sexualities don't need be represented in every game. A credible world doesn't have people informing you of their sexuality. That's just pandering which is exactly what Bioware does to the gay crowd by including gay characters. I know gay people who are offended by the gay characters that they write because they are so unrealistic and misrepresent them. That's what people are asking for. It's irrelevant. I'm probably not going to know what 99% of the characters' sexuality is in the game. So why is it important that they include gay characters? So a minority feels catered and pandered to?

Your poll isn't very honest Psycho. You wouldn't need 15 weapons. But having different resistances adds depth to combat. It forces you to change tactics and changes up the combat a bit so you can't just smash through everything in the game easily.

No the game should only feature white Anglo Saxon Protestant heterosexual male characters. Do you not realize how bigoted it is to not want minorities in games? Or they should be but shouldn't ask for it? Let me just get back to the back of the bus with Rosa Parks then. Never said I didn't want minorities. I just think the devs should have the creative freedom to choose what kind of characters they have instead of minorities lobbying for special treatment and demanding it. I mean look at your reaction to my post, people are bigoted for not wanting to give minorities special treatment? If Obsidian doesn't include gays are they homophobes? If they don't include black people or latinos are they racist? It's some kind of sick joke and the LGBT community are just pressuring the devs to include them instead of letting Obsidian do their own thing.

No I don't think the LGBT crowd should be petitioning for characters in a game. If Obsidian wants to put them in that's fine. But people shouldn't be asking for special considerations because they're a minority.

That's why I'm letting you know. Some of you don't like RPGs and won't want to play this game without romances so withdraw your money and get it out of the way now. I'm sure Obsidian can do without a few hundred pledges from the hardcore sex simulator crowd from Bioware.

The romances will probably be in, Obsidian will probably try to subvert big heroic cliche ("great life" quote suggest that) so they'll probably implement some romances with tragic endings. Something like Madison romance in AP. No I'm sure Obsidian is just waiting until the kickstarter is over before they announce no romances. Too bad that's Obsidian, not EA games. Better withdraw your money now if romances are so important to you and not playing RPGs, because I don't want to hear a lot of complaining when they announce they don't have the resources to invest in romances. Romances are just a nice addition, not a requirement for me, and if Obisidian didn't want to include romances they would say that they don't see place in the story for them instead of coming up with a pathetic excuse like that. They would also probably announce it either before the kickstarter closes (when they decide to give more details) or during the development (if they haven't decided yet) instead of waiting for kickstarter to close like some shady publishes. I didn't imply shady practices, I just meant they would wait until after the kickstarter to announce there would be no romances. And if that happens the "I gotta have romances" crowd is going to complain about donating money to the kickstarter. ...yeah...just like the (smaller) "No romances ever" crowd is going to complain when the opposite strikes true. Why would we complain? We're the reasonable ones.

I think Obsidian can do without the people who have to have romances and think their money should be put towards them instead of the game and letting Obsidian decide.

The romances will probably be in, Obsidian will probably try to subvert big heroic cliche ("great life" quote suggest that) so they'll probably implement some romances with tragic endings. Something like Madison romance in AP. No I'm sure Obsidian is just waiting until the kickstarter is over before they announce no romances. Too bad that's Obsidian, not EA games. Better withdraw your money now if romances are so important to you and not playing RPGs, because I don't want to hear a lot of complaining when they announce they don't have the resources to invest in romances. Romances are just a nice addition, not a requirement for me, and if Obisidian didn't want to include romances they would say that they don't see place in the story for them instead of coming up with a pathetic excuse like that. They would also probably announce it either before the kickstarter closes (when they decide to give more details) or during the development (if they haven't decided yet) instead of waiting for kickstarter to close like some shady publishes. I didn't imply shady practices, I just meant they would wait until after the kickstarter to announce there would be no romances. And if that happens the "I gotta have romances" crowd is going to complain about donating money to the kickstarter.

Yeah, and if they do i will agree with that. And do you know why? Because the people at Obsidian use their brains, and dont dismiss their fans and customers because they "dont like romances". When they deside that no romances should be in PE, so its a desicion made with heart and brain. Two thinks most of you lack... kind regards, Jira P.S.: I hope no one gets this the wrong way. I dont want to abuse anyone... You can't just say most people who don't agree with you are heartless and stupid and then say I don't mean to abuse anyone. It doesn't make sense. Of course you meant to insult people.

The romances will probably be in, Obsidian will probably try to subvert big heroic cliche ("great life" quote suggest that) so they'll probably implement some romances with tragic endings. Something like Madison romance in AP. No I'm sure Obsidian is just waiting until the kickstarter is over before they announce no romances. Too bad that's Obsidian, not EA games. Better withdraw your money now if romances are so important to you and not playing RPGs, because I don't want to hear a lot of complaining when they announce they don't have the resources to invest in romances.

Yes definitely hardcore.

The romances will probably be in, Obsidian will probably try to subvert big heroic cliche ("great life" quote suggest that) so they'll probably implement some romances with tragic endings. Something like Madison romance in AP. No I'm sure Obsidian is just waiting until the kickstarter is over before they announce no romances.

My girlfriend confessed her love for me on our first date after drinking contest in bar without any real conversations, so I agree that if you need to have one or two meaningful conversation before NPCs are falling over you is very unrealistic requirement. Let me get this straight. Your gf was drunk and desperate and told you she loved you, so that means it's realistic for normal people to have 1 or 2 conversations before being in love and having sex? Is that what you're saying?

I don't think anybody is trying to. All I see are people rallying against another lame BioWare/Bethesda relationship-o-matic simulator for people who'd rather larp than play an old school pc game. But nobody here is railing for Bioware/Bethesda-like romances. Those people would be playing Skyrim waiting DA3, we want quality romances Obsidian is known for. Like the ones in MoTB, Planescape Torment and KoTOR 2. Yes those people are. They're saying the same thing they say over at those forums, is they want more romance. Here people are asking for romances that last throughout the entire game and are focused on throughout the entire story. Romances in PST and Kotor 2 weren't really good. I recently played Kotor 2. They were the exact same thing you see in present day Bioware romances, with there being 1 or 2 conversations before they're in love with you and want to have sex with you. Just there was no sex in Kotor 2. Just them being in love with you after 1 or 2 conversations. Could you please provide quotes for both of that statements. The ones for people asking for Bioware-like romances and the ones where people are asking for romances that are the focus of the story. I'll wait. Keep waiting because it's been discussed to death here. Specifically, people have said they want romances that are apart of the storyline and integrated into it. You can read the thread if you want to find those statements. I won't do it for you. People have stated they want romances that are a part of the story and more "mature" which is the exact same stuff that people at the Bioware forums ask for. The only problem is Bioware is so busy making it so you can romance every character in your party and making sure the LGBT crowd can also romance every character that they can't put a romance into the storyline of the game.

Yeah we have a problem with love, lust and passion because we'd rather experience those in the real world with real people instead of virtual characters that are falling over you after 1 or 2 conversations. So realistic.

I don't think anybody is trying to. All I see are people rallying against another lame BioWare/Bethesda relationship-o-matic simulator for people who'd rather larp than play an old school pc game. But nobody here is railing for Bioware/Bethesda-like romances. Those people would be playing Skyrim waiting DA3, we want quality romances Obsidian is known for. Like the ones in MoTB, Planescape Torment and KoTOR 2. Yes those people are. They're saying the same thing they say over at those forums, is they want more romance. Here people are asking for romances that last throughout the entire game and are focused on throughout the entire story. Romances in PST and Kotor 2 weren't really good. I recently played Kotor 2. They were the exact same thing you see in present day Bioware romances, with there being 1 or 2 conversations before they're in love with you and want to have sex with you. Just there was no sex in Kotor 2. Just them being in love with you after 1 or 2 conversations.

If you saw the Bioware forums around the DA2 release, there were people clamoring for incest by romancing your sister or mother. These are the kinds of people that want romances in games and can't live without them.