Ink Blot

And that's fine. I don't even have an issue with combat focused talents/spells/abilities. Hell, as you said, that's part of the IE experience, and I would expect that to be an element of the game. But why can't there also be talents/abilities/spells that are non-combat focused that the player can spend those XP awards on? Best of both worlds. I just don't see why you can't understand this point. But you know what? You win. You've outargued me and I'm done. So enjoy the narrow-focused quest-only XP 'debate', Grom. Have good fun.

Seems to me you're the one lost, Grom. The thread title mentions impressions, not Quest XP. You're the one that insists on bringing everything back to Quest-based XP. I've repeatedly stated I don't have a big issue with that. My point still stands that the game is skewed too heavily towards combat for a game that's supposedly concerned with solving quests in other ways. If you want to continue to stir up some kind of debate about the superiority of Quest-based XP over combat XP, then by all means. Feel free to ignore my posts and have at beating the poor plebs that don't understand the superiority of Quest XP into submission. But you're the one constantly quoting my posts and telling me they're irrelevant. If this were the Quest vs. Combat XP Debate thread, I'd agree with you. But it's not. It's an impression thread. Hope that's clear enough.

I don't know if it's me or the incredibly annoying writing style you've adopted for the forums, but I'm not sure I grasp your point here. Sure, PS:T managed to deliver a kick-ass roleplay experience but it wasn't a kick-ass roleplay experience because of the combat skewed mechanics. It was in spite of it. And Obs wants to make a good roleplay game with choices, consequences, and lots of different way to overcome obstacles other than combat so why in hell did they choose to go with a combat-skewed game mechanic when they had the opportunity to go so much further beyond that? Is that relevant enough? And 'lack o' imagination'? Really? How about this then, Grom: yeah, I know there are ability checks, but the game is skewed to combat. You want to be good at the combat-skewed 'core mechanic' of the game, then you'll build your character appropriately. This means lower scores in the abilities used in checks. Want to pass that 16 Perception check? Good luck with your combat-ready character build. Want to pass that 15 Resolve check? Good luck with that combat-ready character build. Now, you can counter that point with a "Then don't build your character that way" argument, but what's the incentive when every single talent and ability is a combat-enhancer? If Obs decided to toss in abilities,spells, perks, and talents that would help you out in non-combat situations or aid in avoiding combat, then I wouldn't complain. And maybe they plan to add something like that later - and I'll be happy as a pig in a sty. But so far it doesn't seem that way, So sure, you can build a 'pacifist' character if you want (I'll use that term for a character focused on avoiding combat as much as possible for the purposes of this discussion) but that means all the goodies you get from leveling up are hollow and useless to your character concept. Where's the much-vaunted roleplay in that? Where's the player satisfaction of thinking "Great, my character has gained a level and now I can grab this talent that really fleshes out the concept"? Oh yes, let's not forget the 6 skill points you get that you can invest in increasingly expensive skill levels. So fairly early on you'll end up going two, three, or more character levels and gaining maybe one level in a single skill that your character focuses on while the combat focused characters are gaining character-concept useful spell/talents/feats left and right. *edit* Spelling.

Nice!

Binding Web: should not slow down/hold spiders.

You need to host them on a file-hosting site such as upload.ee and link them here. You can post screenies here as well as text files (such as the output_log files)

Some fair points, actually. Re the outdoor scaling, I don't get the same feeling of 'giants', but what I find vastly different are the actual sizes of the outdoor areas. Compared to BG1, they're tiny. I have moments where I worry about the state of the game come year end as well, but I chalk that up to me not being a game dev. I think they have a pretty good grasp of what they can do in what amount of time with the engine they're using. I'm trusting them on this. I think the real test is going to be seeing how much improvement is shown in the first couple beta updates.

This is nice, very nice. Lots of great suggestions in this thread. I'll toss out a couple more for those that want non-combat options: Mutual Cooperation: Skill values all NPCs members are combined and divided by the number of NPCs in the party. The result can be added to the PC for a single skill check. Limited use, of course (once per rest). To illustrate, let's say there's a Lore check that you want your PC to pass, but you have a low score. Combined, your 4 NPCs have a score of 21 in Lore. 21/4 = 5 (round down). You can add 5 to your Lore check. Beast Whisperer: the character can use this spell/talent to automatically subdue a group of critters (number would perhaps depend on level or an attribute?) making them docile so they won't attack. Once per rest. Smokescreen: the character can cast an AoE smoke screen, which reduces the field of perception of all creatures in the AoE (possibly allowing you to sneak past them). Couple times per day. Mass Illusion: the character can cast an illusion that creates a perfect simulation of the party, thus drawing monsters away to attack the illusions. Medium to long range (when the mobs attack the illusion, this would not count as the party actually being in combat. The party could then sneak by without engaging). Bend the Will: the character can dominate the will of one opponent, making them docile and non-aggressive. (useful if you want to get past that one guard at the door) When the spell wears off, the affected character is not hostile (they have no memory of the event), unless the party is within sight. Once per day.

Sorry, Grom, but 'relevant question'? I was under the impression that this was a forum for discussion, which means one can question, comment, and/or offer observations. I wasn't aware it was a question and answer forum. I realize you want to beat anything that even remotely looks like a dissenting view of quest-based XP into utter abasement, but you'll note I said I don't actually have an issue with quest-based XP. I have an issue with the way the game is designed, given there is only quest-based XP. My first impressions so far with this game are that it has potential be very good and a lot of fun. But with respect to the discussion at hand of quest/combat XP, the way the game presents so far to me is jarringly odd. To give an analogy, it seems Obs is telling you you can get from point A to point B and you can get there any way you choose. You don't have to take a car on the paved road. You can go overland, climb that mountain, go through the cave complex, take a canoe down the river, charter a flight, or any combination of those if you want. But hey, every few miles, we're going to also give you something to help you along: jumper cables, a map showing all the gas stations on the paved route, instructions on how to change a tire, a GPS device for the car, a gas card, windshield wiper fluid, a course on auto mechanics, a car repair kit... [sarcasm]Great stuff for the guy that's choosing to spelunk, or climb that mountain, or paddle down the river.[/sarcasm] Oh sure, there's a couple skills thrown in. So yeah, here's a flashlight for you spelunkers (batteries not included), a pair of rubber boots for you canoeists, and a chalk bag for you mountain climbers.

This is a good post, IMO. The problem I personally have with the game as presented so far isn't so much that I think there's an inherent flaw with quest-only XP. In fact, I kind of like the idea of quest-only XP. But to me, the game is sending mixed signals with the design and mechanics. I still can't grasp the thinking behind giving no reward for combat kills, while every ability, spell, and talent in the game that I've seen so far is oriented toward making the character better at... killing and combat. If the whole idea is to give you alternate methods of solving quests and no matter how you do it, you get the same XP award, then why are there no talents, spells, abilities or even racial and class perks that will help you build a character that can be more effective at solving quests without combat? ***Thank you for you attention while I beat this dead nag to a fine paste.***

This is almost exactly what I proposed in one of the other threads. There were some dissenting opinions though. Can't recall exactly what the issues were that they pointed out, but I'm sure you'll hear some of them.

A suggestion about picking locks: I had the BB Rogue attempt to pick a lock tonight, and her skill was too low (Mechanics of 7) and I got the message: Lockpicks Needed: 8. Now, I know it should be obvious that you don't need 8 lockpicks, but this could easily be a little confusing (I admit I at first thought "What the hell, I need 8 lockpicks?"). Maybe change the message to say "Mechanics skill (7) too low. Needed: 8", and then it will be obvious you need a certain number of lockpicks to open the container. A small change, but I feel it would be less confusing.

Ah, my bad. I wasn't aware they had set colors. Is this also true of the hair styles?

Did a search to see if this had been reported and got nothing. Not sure if this is known missing assets or not, but thought I should toss out a report. [DESCRIPTION] Created a Cipher and when it got to the appearance customization, I could choose the primary and secondary colors for the character but could not choose skin or hair color. Those two options I was completely unable to interact with. As well, I could not choose any different hair styles. [DETAILS] Not sure if it's specific to a particular gender, but I chose female, Nature Godlike, with the Human body type. Tried again with the same choices and got the same result. [EXPECTED BEHAVIOR] As with other characters, I expect to be able to change skin/hair tones and hair styles. *EDIT* Bah! This probably has more to do with the race than the class. *facepalm*

Cool. Maybe I'll dig around the game files and see if that's a possible scripted outcome.

Yeah, I've had piglet wander off only to start a fight. So when I'm in stealth mode, I tuck him into the backpack.

I think of Bobby from King of the Hill...

Just chiming in to confirm I've seen this as well.

NCarver, could BB Fighter have died from a fall during that descent? Maybe that's why he didn't appear with my party when they got to the bottom? I may have missed that in the log or during the story boards. If this is the case, then it would explain the issue, given the bug with dead characters.

Cool, thanks! I've not run into it yet, so thank you for confirming this is the case.

Posting in this thread because I have a similar issue. When going down the stairs after defeating the Pwgra, at the bottom is a hole on the left that you can descend if you have a grappling hook. I did so, but on getting to the bottom of that, my BB Fighter disappeared. I decided to keep exploring, assuming perhaps this was intentional and he'd be found somewhere later in that area. Soon thereafter my game crashed. Now, upon loading my save from before I descended the stairway, my BB Fighter is with the party (as he should be), but there's no portrait for him at the bottom left. I can interact with him (select and move him). Screenie attached to illustrate, and save game can be found here: http://www.upload.ee/files/4231731/88fdf92d55d54e1097342b16c97f00be_StormwallGorge_7798877.savegame.html

Exactly. Throw a couple corpses in there and for loot maybe a bundle of camping supplies (the party encountered the tragic demise of travelers who thought they'd found a good site to make camp. After defeating the wolves, they manage to salvage enough camping supplies for one night's camp).

My only beef with this in regards to PoE is it seems Obs is saying "We're rewarding you for goals, and when you accomlish them, we'll pay you", which is great. But when you look at it they're paying you with pens and pads of paper to write things down properly, a watch so you can show up on time, a punch clock to keep track of your hours, and a daytimer to plan your meetings. All the things you get from leveling only do one thing: make you better at combat. Why not throw in a shedload of talents/spells/abilities that allow you to build a character that can more easily avoid combat if the goal of quest completion is all that's important? Why gear all these things toward combat if, in the end, they want you to be able to 'play it however you want'? Well, i want to be able to play it in a manner where I don't have to fight much. But they're giving me nothing to build my character towards that end.

Ah yes, quest item. Give it to your main, and it will automatically go into the quest bag. Not sure if it has to be there to work, but I'm finding a few quirky things like that, so it's best to take anything that remotely looks like it could be a quest item and give it to your main. If it disappears, it's either an ingredient or a quest item and will have been automatically shifted to the appropriate container (assuming no glitches, of course).

I'd like to see talents that don't focus on combat. How about something like a 'beguiler' that gives you a bonus in convo checks to persuade someone to do something/give info/accept a bribe, etc. Or Dungeoneering, which would give you a bonus at spotting a different way to get over an obstacle/avoid an encounter, or a bonus to spotting hidden doors/traps/loot in dungeons. Or a talent that helps you in caves or wilderness areas. Or a 'whisperer' talent that lets you peacefully bypass wild animals instead of having to slaughter them. Anything to help you create a character that isn't just focused on being a more efficient killer. Hell, with the way the game's set up with regards to gaining XP, let's look at talents/spells/abilities that allow you to solve quests without combat.