MonkeyLungs

You make so many of the same points many others make. Albeit with much vitriol. I don't mind the tone of your post but the ODS is going to have a field day with it. The funny part or not so funny part is that people will be so angry with you they won't realise or admit that your sentiments are shared by tons of gamers and are valid criticisms. People are very sensitve here. I think the game is half baked and lacks in features. The tethered camera is a serious technical limitation that renders the software defective in my opinion. PSP ARPG's have way more robust gameplay elements and features than this title, incuding MP over the interwebs without tethering players to the same camera.

People could use VgChartz (not accurate for real numbers, possible useful for trends) and check retailers that list sales rankings, and check PSN, Xbox Live numbers and Steam numbers and come up with pretty good estimates though.

The gameplay is quite a reboot though. Also peoples concerns/comments/complaints/rants etc. about this title are quite similar, even the folks around here that get labeled as haters and trolls .. the comments share core elements. Cool single player title, though a bit short but ok because each of the 4 characters is really unique, multiplayer is a letdown. Now the wording and tone changes from person to person, I'm a little more gruff for instance, but there is definitely recurring themes and they are easy to recognize.

Did you not read the part that I said I did it on one session... start to finish... I'm not looking at game time or steam time (this is on xbox anyway)... just that I started at 12pm and finished 10.30pm (few 10 min breaks for food etc). I didn't get all the achievements in one run (impossible...) but I did get all quests and all lore etc. Can easily cut 4 hours off that time in a second play through. Well except that you have been very ciritcal of the game and this here is a tiny town and the fellers round these parts don't like crtics coming round! So basically no matter what you say now ODS (Obsidian Defense Squad) will come to try and knock you down. Also you liked the first two DS games and hoped that the htird would be at least a little more like them and apparently that is sacriligious around here.

Except that allowing gamers the freedom to go anywhere they want in the game does not mean that people will run ahead and steal all of your fun. If you play with people that do that you could just remove them from the game. Players can form teams and work together even in a game that allows them to have their own screen and go anywhere.

This has always bugged me with consoles patches ... there should be like a pop up readme that lists the game changes. Some details on what was changed ...

That would be cool but I think they would have to implement persistent character saves to get that kind of stuff to work. Not that I woud be opposed to that in any way though ...

Probably better just check PSN and Xbox Live online activity and any retailers that do sales rankings. You won't have actual figures but you will know how the title is stacking up compared to others.

I support the OP in his quest for helmets. Always make them able to Toggle ON/OFF visibility though. I like helmets in games but many players like to make them invisible.

Paper Doll display from the inventory would be pretty awesome. It would be nice to be able to see all the gear on your character directly from the inventory so that you didn't have to enter and exit the menu jjust to see how a different piece of armor looks. I agree on your second point as well ... this is part 3 there should be MORE armor and weapons, not less.

You can look on Amazon.com for at least an idea of how the title is selling compared to other titles. You can check on most played PSN games and Xbox Live games to gauge its popularity online. I don't know if Steam tracks numbers of players playing games but they might. You can also read the reviews from other websites where opinions differ from those of here and get an idea of the games reception. Ther complaints are very similar. They also happen to be really similar to the complaints people had during development.

It was said in such a vague way because they didn't want to be clear about how the saves for characters worked. People who try to say that statement quoted above is not intentionally vague really aren't being fair. People only make vague statements like that when they are afraid to be direct.

They can probably add a whole lot of zoom to the camera in a patch though. That might help a little bit.

Fair enough. I'm out of this thread I'll leave the last word to the other guys.

The most enthralling ARPG ever. The best ARPG ever. You claim there is a big difference here? I don't see one. Its just a different way of saying the same thing. Maybe you didn't edit your post who cares? If you really didn't and just read the most enthralling arpg ever as the best ever and you don't agree that the two are synonomous then I apologize for not being more specific. It doesn't change one single element of the argument. It doesn't change one single element of the argument. Dungeon Siege 3 is NOT the most enthralling ARPG ever. Keep up the personal insults though guys it shows your true colors.

For me it is about key factors: **Feature list is extremely slim. Too slim for a full retail release. This pertains to but is not limited to: Lack of ---> Free Mode for SP or MP, Trading System, PvP, Persistent Character Saves, Newgame+ **MP is the same whether it is local co-op or online. Online should take advantage of the fact that the gamers are not sharing the same machine. Tethered online camera I consider to be a serious technical deficiency like selling a 10 speed bike that lacks a derailer so you can't actually shift into the other speeds.

Read the previous post where I quoted that exact same line. Again, I ask you: did I call it the "BEST" hack-and-slash ever or the most ENTHRALLING. Pay close attention to the words and where all of this went wrong will dawn on you, I'm sure. You edited your original post. It used to say best. I don't think the edit changes anything though. It isn't the most enthralling ARPG either and my arguments against that point would be exactly the same as my arguments against calling it the best.

Saying "I think this is the best hack n slash ever" is not wrong. The key words, "I think," are important. Obviously there is something about these words that confuses you, whether it is because you are ignorant, not very good at English, or both. You are at best a very persistent crusader against things other people like but you don't and at worst a very sly troll. Why don't you do us all a favour and push the "log out" button right next to your user name towards the top of the page? Well I think he is wrong. Me saying his opinion is wrong is obviously my opinion. Based on your post above I am not wrong either am I? Now I'm supposed to do you a favor by logging out? How's dungeon siege 3 ranking on Amazon? Most played PSN or Xbox Live games? How about the multiplayer community? How have the development decisions made for this game fared as far as public reaction is concerned?

I would actually be quite happy to be a kind of subscriber to Obsidian, paying a monthly fee, getting exclusive "Thanks for supporting us" goodies every so often, DLC, whatever if it helps them stay independent and do what they love. I would be quite happy knowing that I can contribute to a developer I love on a more regular basis if it means they always make games that THEY love to make. Maybe I'm just odd? *shrug* Troika became legends and their games will be remembered forever. When GOG upped their games, I was happy to buy them all over again. I hope that, at some point, they up ol' Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines so that I can once again support it. Unfortunately I believe Activision (the devil incarnate) own that IP and are unlikely to ever allow it to go DRM-free. Troika were a fantastic developer and, as I said, too great for their time. I firmly believe that if they had to come back, it would be as a phoenix rising from the ashes--one helluva sight to behold. Regardless, I do, fully, agree with you--even DS3 with all its consolisation remains a far more enthralling experience than ANY hack-and-slash game ever, because it had a really, incredibly talented developer design it. If I said this anywhere else, I'm sure that I would be royally flamed, but Obsidian is a better RPG developer than BioWare and a VASTLY better RPG developer than Bethesda (seriously, have Bethesda ever actually made a single REAL RPG, or just an action adventure romp with a few hack-and-slash RPG mechanics while offering no tangible choices, consequences, etc? Think about it. The best thing that happened to the Fallout franchise since its revival is when Obsidian worked on New Vegas). BioWare just has better marketing, but they sold their souls to EA and it's been starting to show quite a bit recently. Obsidian needs to remain as independent as they possibly can, and I would love to do anything in my power to keep them that way. Also, if I ever win the lottery (seriously), I'm going to come knocking on Obsidian's door and ask if I can help them make the games they want to make. I honestly wish Obsidian the best and I never, ever, want to have happen to them what happened to Troika. But I truly, honestly wish that they would go back to their roots. Even small developers like Piranha Bytes have their fame and loyal cult followers, even a game as "hardcore" (I hate using that word) as the first Witcher game, made by a completely unknown developer at the time, became famous because it stuck to what it believed in--they didn't try to please ANYONE but themselves. I kind of wish I could just give Obsidian a hug and tell them that they have some really die-hard fans out there, that we love their games but we know that there's the mother of all gems just waiting to be put together that will show the world what a REAL developer can do. Obsidian, the devs who gave me a character like Kreia, none have matched some of the experiences you've given me over the years (Planescape & KotOR2, specifically). Remember what made you GREAT! It's time for a revolution, kids I bolded the line I was referring to. EDIT: It used to say best ever, but you altered it to say most enthralling like that is even a difference. BTW Obsidian are awesome. DS3 is only OK. When an awesome dev makes an OK game the flaws stand out more I guess. BTW I also think that the vast majority of released titles are absolute rubbish (not by Obsiidan lol by games industry as a whole). And by rubbish I mean almost all games made I would not even rent. Gaming is a really fun hobby and RPG's are my favorite but I am highly critical of even games that I like. Most games that I don't even care about aren't worth $5 let alone $60. Dungeon Siege 3 is worth 20 - 30 USD.

How can a subjective truth be wrong? It can be wrong from a different subjective point of view. You think it is the best ARPG ever and I don't. I hope you guys understand almost all of what I post is subjective. I tend to think it is implied ... I do not think my opinions are cold hard facts.

Because I provide you with the lulz, or because I'm an idiot, or is it more romantico than that?

Liking the game and saying its the best ARPG ever are two different things. Im cool with people thinking this is the best hack n slah ever as long as they cool with me saying they are wrong. The whole 'did some have a gun to your head when you said that?' is a really old joke and definitely not original material. Obviously it comes across more harsh to some of you than it does to me. It is definitely a far cry from suicide advocacy. There is plenty of singe player short campaign fun to be had in Dungeon Siege. It's still a half baked, feature slim, unambitious title. The tethered camera in MP is a serious technical deficiency and Obsidian dropped the ball on this title. They should have aimed to make the most legendary ARPG for this generation of consoles and they should have started by making a really in depth and feature rich PC game that respects that platform. They then should have scaled back the game to port to consoles while making sure to take advantage of the consoles control scheme. What they did was make a title that isn't even ambitious for a console title and then ported it to PC. The sales and the longevity of this game will tell their own story.

Sacred 2 is a very full featured game, even on the consoles. PC has some elements that make that version superior (server protected saves for certain MP modes, Hardcore mode, cool expansion, more gear) but the console versions were delivered with very rich feature sets and plenty of gameplay modes. Apparently Ascaron's main cause of demise was a bunch of side investments for other projects or somesuch. Deep Silver made out like bandits buying the Sacred IP. -------------Back OT----------------- Very curious to see if they can untether the camera in a patch. I also wonder if Square will back Obsidian for console cupport even though sales seem very weak on consoles.

You told him to kill himself, which is not a very friendly thing to say and is usually frowned upon in more civilized internet societies. I absolutely did NOT. Read the thread. It isn't very nice to lie about people either. He said DS3 was the best hack n slasher ever. I asked if someone had a gun to his head ... ie is someone forcing you to say this? That's hardly telling the guy to kill himself. I'm very anti suicide and would never recommend such an intense course of action over something so trivial. The OP's original post was very good, he prefers real RPG's to ARPG's, so do I. He just think DS3 is the best ARPG ever and I think that's crazy talk. It doesn't mean I have even the slightest negative inclination towards the individual. So Vilhelm I am going to politely suggest you stop lying about me. You can attack me and call me names, debate my opinions, deride my taste in games all you want but please don't lie about me.

Mr. Chapman's statements there are like vague psuedo politico stuff. He could have just came out and spelled out how the multiplayer works in a way that doesn't leave room for misinterpretation.