MonkeyLungs

They are already working harder than you could ever imagine. Also just because you like/love your job doesn't mean you love that job so much that 100% of your life should be dedicated to it. And that they should be thankful and not complain when it is. Many Actors/Athletes/Musicians and so on love their job too. Yet their job still can break them down just like everyone else. You don't even remotly know how it is to work hard anyway from your posts. P.S Also like it was said before. These things you like the devs to "add" are maybe uninteresting to other people in favor of other things. You are pretty ******** clueless when it comes to the gaming industry and how awesome it is to work in it. I don't know how going on crunch mode is stimulatin for anyone's mind. Nor how does "work harder" suddenly solve everything when we are talking about the people who work in the gaming industry and not at some part-time "come and go as you please" office job. But keep on trolling. Too bad the ignore function doesn't really work when someone actually replies How are the sales and the post game support going for DS3? You guys getting any DLC? Maybe if some of the people who advocated against all the streamlining prior to DS3 being released were listened to, then this game might have sold more copies. Funny how you say my ideas are unintersting to people yet the reality is that Dungeon Siege 3 is uninteresting to people. It sold horribly, caused tons of fan outrage, got reviewed as OK by game critics, and has basically ZERO online community. Maybe you fanboys and Obsidian don't have very good ideas? EDIT: You 2 little boys can STFU with the personal attacks too. My comments are about Dungeon Siege and Obsidian. I don't think Obsidian need you to defend them and their 'really really tough jobs'.

I listed all kinds of suggestions about what I would want in DS4. My first choice is let the series die, but my second choice 20 suggestions to make the game better. I am far more of a contributor of ideas than you will ever be. Also it isn't my fault this website is full of cry babies that can't handle criticism. And C2B: game devlopers jobs are mentally challenging but also very stimulating for the mind as well. They get to do what they love and they want money for it. I just want them to work harder and add more to their games.

Yes me telling people they aren't starving and have cool jobs so they should strive to do better and make in depth games instead streamlining is so very insulting. Simma down mehbeh?

Fallout: NV is still wildly popular. After I played new vegas I sold my copy of Fallout 3 because I had the collectors edition. I knew if I was going to play gamebryo fallout that it would be New Vegas. -------------- For DS4 ... even though I don't think Mr Chapman up there has the will or the means to do the following, here's what I would want if DS4 was inevitable (I still vote for no more dungeon siege out of protest to the streamlining of DS3 though): 1. Male/Female for each character class/archetype (So you'd have Reinhart and Reilena or something if you stuck with the current predetermined protagonist style) -- I would prefer no set protagonists and customizable appearance with customizable skill and class picks. 2. Persistent character saves and Newgame+ mode. Ability to take your character into any game mode with your friends. 3. Open games and closed server side saves for things like hardcore mode and cheat free gaming. 4. No MF'in shared screen for online play. See my sig, learn the rhyme, sing it to yourself. 5. Each character class/archetype has a unique class quest that spans the length of the game. 6. Interchangeable co-op and solo play like Borderlands. I can play campaign on my own and catch up to friends, join their game and complete the campaign! This kind of stuff is good. 7. Deeper itemization. ---Customizable crafting, rune sockets/magic gems/whateveryouwannacallem ---uses for items beyond just selling, scrapping, or equipping .. ie. everything should also have an alternate crafting use. ---Customizable appearance of armor and weapons. Like the stats but hate the looks? Use your crafting skills to change properties from item to item. ---Crafting should be a skill choice and a sacrifice in other areas. Crafters should be valuable. ---Trading lobbies for players that don't want to craft but want to trade with other players. ---Trading lobbies should host at least 32 players on Xbox Live/PSN .. more on PC. Build a community around your game. ---Epic weapon and armor quests for every character class/archetype. 8. Endgame content 9. Free mode Single Player/ Free Mode Multi Player \\ Campaign Single Player/ Campaign Multiplayer \\ Free Mode PVP \\ Trading Lobbies \\ Separate Difficulty levels for each mode )(Bronze, Silver ... Nightmare, Hell etc.)<--- This is the bare minimum of game modes you should have available. If you can't bring this to the table you should cancel your project because you are going to keep disappointing your publishers. 10. Customizable controls right out of the box, for PC's for sure but for consoles also. 11. Pack mule for carrying loot. Secret mule jousting level. 12. Way bigger maps. corridor maps are an insult to gamers everywhere. Better has been done, is being done, and should be done. There should be some cramped dungeons and some massive wide open underground valuts, some claustrophic forests and some awe inspiring fields and plains and everything in between. build a real gameworld if you can instead of just little interconnected maps. If you have to do small maps because of an inefficient engine then you need to build tons and tons of maps. Gamers are tired of getting shortchanged with small games. 13. More non combat content. Social aspects like interracting with townspeople. Temples, mage towers to visit, secret societies, taverns. NPC's with shcedules. 14. Emergent gameplay experiences the player can get involved. Like villagers wandering too far form their farms and being attacked by hostile NPC's ... 15. Multuiple pathways through the main quest. 16. Factions the player can befriend or betray. NPC's are not just enemies or friends, they can be either. Faction resets after completion of campaign so players can try new factions when they replay on harder difficulties. Factions start at default during free mode so players can experiment with the faction system to their heart's content in free mode. 17. A retirement feature for venerable characters ... integrate a social element into this like a hall of legends for players to share/show off their retired legendary characters. Bonuses for retring characters are gained for subsequent characters. Build replay, build sharing, build community. Build a real game not a streamlined tech demo. 18. Extensive options for hosting. Allow the host to really tailor the hosting options to the experience they and their friends want to have. 19. Paper Doll inventory ... people want to see how the gear looks on their toons without having to go in and out of inventory over and over. This is really elementary and I find the lack of it in DS3 is really lazy. 20. If you are going to make a console game learn how to use controller feedback like a professional developer. When I play Borderlands I can tell what direction I am being shot from just by the controller feedback alone. Controller feedback is also one of the primary sources for visceral feedback and satisfying gaming feedback for hearing impaired gamers. It is important to them and just makes your game that much better. It also shows you pay attention to detail. Controller feedback should always be on a TOGGLE in OPTIONS so that people who don't like it can turn it off. I can think of more because you guys left so much out of Dungeon Siege 3 but this is a good starting point. Streamlining is horrible and removes value from a product for gamers. Streamlining is done to cut corners and cut costs and then marketed to gamers as a sleeker more focussed experience. Nice 1984 double speak but I'm not buying it. Like I'm really not buying it and I hope gamers start to demand more quality from developers for their money. You game developers make a living wage, work in air conditioned offices, and get to make games for a living. Consumers don't need to hear about your limited budgets or short dev cycles. We don't care unless you care enough about our money to charge less for a title with a smaller budget and short development time.

Dungeon Siege 3 was overall reviewed as an OK game. Unambitious is a common critique made of DS3.

You are not alone. I also was surprised when I found no NG+ options after beating the game. IMO it's an industry standard for RPGs now, has been since ChronoTrigger IMO. It's probably the second most requested addition to the game. The first being new camera angles and zooms. New Game+ is not a standard feature in the genre. At all. For Action RPG's it is a standard feature and every game that doesn't support said feature is SUB-standard.

I am here because Obsidian is one of the last of the AAA RPG developers but they are slippin' down the slippery slope of streamline. I get tired of reading how people like the game and feel a need to counterbalance.

A pro tip for you: I speak directly and plainly. I don't need nor want subtlety. Obsidian ignored fans during the development of this game and it hurt them. It isn't really up for debate that this game was not well received. People might argue that they like it or not and personally I think its OK. But OK games are not worth my money or time. Some of the decisions made by the developers of this game are so WTF? inducing that I can scarcely believe they actually went through to final release.

Hey Flouride ... so you are saying that there is a non disclosure agreement between Obsidian/Square and Microsoft to NOT explain to owners of the game what alterations were made to the software? That sounds really weird and highly unlikely but I'm wondering if you have anything to substantiate that claim?

I'm not mad you said that, I just honestly wish it weren't true. It's one of the coolest games I've ever played. WTF is wrong with people. GRRR!!! The developers refused to heed the fans concerns during development and completely ignored all the features that make ARPG's great and gain some of them huge followings and big online communities. Dungeon Siege 3's online community has never exceeded Diablo 2's community size ... Diablo 2 is 11 years old. And it isn't like people weren't addressing their concerns before the game came out, because people were. Obsidian just thinks they know what fans want better than the fans. RPG fans want MORE complexity and depth. And PC gamers want a game that is developed with their platform in mind ... shared screen online co-op is an insult to gamers and shows Obsidian's lack of ambition and talent. They simply ported the console couch co-op experience to all MP and it hurt them. It's an ARPG that doesn't want to take on the real features of ARPG's but doesn't give us the real meat of an RPG. The game stands in limbo where it doesn't give you the best of either approach and the fans reaction across the web and ther sales of the game confirm this. This message board is the only place left where the last 7 or 8 people that love this game hang out. And they hear the bells ringing loud, the bells of doom for Dungeon Siege 3. These developers work in Air Conditioned high tech offices and make a living wage doing someingth amazing and fun for a living and they disrespect their opportunity and their fans by releasing such a streamlined game. And the fans of the Dungeon Siege series, as well as fans of ARPG all across the internet have spoken. Sales rankings for Dungeon Siege 3 tell their own grim tale. The lack of activity on this message board for the game (that was released druing a gaming drought) tells another story. The failure of this game is a vindication for gamers that want complexity in their games and demand value for money. When Obsidian made Fallout New vegas they continued in the spirit of Fallout 3 but also tried to bring back the lost and trampled on spirit of the old Fallouts. I think they succeeded quite well and I traded in my copy of Fallout 3 and just keep New Vegas because I love their take on the new style of Fallout. But what thjey didn't do was completely trample on what came before and ignore what gamers liked about fallout 3. AND AND AND they added complexity to the game. I'll say that again: When they made Fallout New Vegas they built on what gamers already were loving about the series and improved upon the formula and added complexity. Pretty smart and as it just so happens it is their highest selling title to date. Imagine if they would have built on the awesome foundation Chris Taylor and Gas Powered games had already established and just added layers of complexity and game improvements. Maybe there would actually be people playing this game online a month or two after release. As it stands online activity is dead, sales are low, and fan outrage over this title was significant.

I'm absolutely convinced Diablo 3 will have way more builds, and way more skills available to the player and therefore way more to do in combat which absolutely convinces me absolutely that Diablo3 will absolutely have better combat. Ninja Gaiden has a cool combat system that require active player skill. Don't take my word for it though, just watch the numbers of players online playing Diablo 3 in comparison to Dungeon Siege 3. Heck, Diablo 2 has more people playing online than Dungeon Siege 3 (and it like 11 years old) and personally I feel Diablo combat system is lightyears ahead of Dungeon Siege 3. So yeah, shoutout to the devs!

I don't play PS3 or PC (until I get a new rig) so I'm not really the best to comment on those platforms. Also PC appears to have some documentation for their patches and plenty of developer feedback on what they planned/did fix on PC. Another point ... 4MB is a sizeable patch for Xbox 360, Microsoft has rules about file size for patches and 4 Mb used to be the limit (the rule is because patches were generally stored in Cache instead of the harddrive because not all versions of the Xbox 360 shipped with a HD). This has been pushed up in quite recent times though and I believe the latest F:NV patch holds the Xbox 360 record with 16 MB. If customers ask what changes were made with a patch to their software I think its common courtesy to answer that question even if the patch just fixed spelling errors.

There is a reason not to have them ... if you don't like AI companions following you around in an ARPG as the OP stated. He doesn't need a better reason than that. There should be an option to go solo, more options are good. Streamlining out options is not good.

I think anything substantial, ie story based with quests is very unlikely. Maybe some items packs though ... I mean the forums are very sparsely populated, there is not much activity for this game on Xbox Live and interest has seemed to wane. Post game support for Xbox 360 is almost non existant. there was a patch but nobody will post a patch log of what it fixed and the developers refused to answer another forum members question of what the patch fixed for Xbox 360. This doesn't suggest much respect for the Xbox 360 consumer and I'm just extrapolating that due to low sales, lack of Live activity, and the devlopers apparent scorn for the Xbox 360 crowd we won't be seeing another Title Update nor any DLC. I could be wrong and we shall see.

You don't have to be 21 to drink in most places. Mainly "the land of the free" ... edit: This game will get you pretty drunk but you might never want to hear the JK repeated again.

My post went a little off topic. I agree. I had to respond to Talon though. My point stands I don't want to see anything in Dungeon Siege 4 because DS3 is far too streamlined. You asked what people want to see in DS4. I'm a person. I don't want to see anything in DS4. I don't want to see a Dungeon Siege 4 because the developers don't value the same kind of features and gameplay I value in an ARPG. My point is clear and succinct. Nothing needs to be deleted. You guys want features in DS4, I want the DS franchise to just go away and never return. Our opinions are different and who cares, that's how it goes.

Obsidan doesn't even have the common courtesy to answer people when they ask what the first Xbox patch fixed I highly doubt they are going to entirely fix the camera for Xbox.

I think the words 'sane' (as used to imply that the person isn't) and 'pathetic' are enough to be considered 'personal attacks'. The way I used sane was in the context of "sane and logical" which is not an insult but a course of action that someone who isn't projecting nonsensical reasoning would follow. Sorry, but, saying "I don't like Obsidian because the people who like them, like them." It doesn't make sense and it is not a sane or logical statement. Reality is not an insult no matter how harsh it may be. And as for the word pathetic, I used it in a metaphorical sense. If you have nothing better to do then hang around hating on a company and their products for no other reason than to provoke people who do like the company and enjoy their products. Well, then that is pathetic. That course of action is a pathetic attempt to self-inflate an online ego and persona. Nothing more. I didn't call him pathetic I said his chosen course of actions are. Again reality, no matter how harsh is not an insult. Don't want to be pathetic? Don't pursue pathetic actions. I just have a problem with streamlined games that cut features from a genre I consider essential. And fans congratulating the devs for doing so is just irksome. I hate streamlining and I can't stand it when people allow themselves to believe the marketing hype. Streamlining is done to make the development easier and cut corners and it doesn't help fans/consumers of video games in any way. If a great team like Obsidian is going to keep producing streamlined corner cutting games then I would rather see them not make games at all. --------- Also, I don't care if any of you insult me, as long as its fair and I can fight back. Up to now it hasn't been and I have had posts deleted with far less offensive stances than what you took towards me Talon. I'm not saying I want Talon censored or his posts removed because I don't, he can say whatever he feels like saying. It just doesn't work both ways around here. --------- These boards are pretty dead anyway, as is apparently interest in Dungeon Siege 3 so good luck on a sequel ... good luck even getting any kind of content rich DLC (maybe you will get some item packs). ----------- You guys can say whatever you want about my opinion but Dungeon Siege 3 was NOT a hit and rubbed many gamers the wrong way and the major ciritcisms not only were shared all around the net but alos were big concerns before the game went Gold. Obsidian chose the path of ignorance and chose to not heed fan requests and warnings about the mechanics of the game and they did so at their own peril. ---------- I will sit and argue with all of you and you can insult me all day long. I just want the same treatment.

The problem with people's acceptance of lack of persistent character saves is simple: If there were persistent character saves I could have the same co-op experience that anyone here describes. That feeling of starting your characters together, only levelling them together, playing at the same level, sharing loot, etc. etc. etc. ... ALL of those things can be done in a game like Borderlands AND you can also have your very own saves of your versions of the characters that you can continue to play and hunt loot even after you have finished the campaign with your firend/girlfriend/gamer buddies.

Nothing. I hope there is no Dungeon Siege 4. The limited feature set, the streamlining, the shared screen, the lack of persistent character saves has shown me that Obsidian just wants to skate by, not make a legendary ARPG. I'm guessing there probably won't be a Dungeon Siege 4, at least not until the next reboot, but maybe you guys will get another ds game. Or they could just just streamline it even more and make it into a cellphone game. The gang up bunch that relentlessly insults anyone who makes a critical comment towards this game have soured me towards Obsidian in general and that was something I didn't think would happen. Obsidian has produced some amazing titles and used to stand for ambition in RPG development but it seems like streamlining all day long and the fans who enjoy streamlining are what is accepted around here ... opposing viewpoints are not really welcome.

No its not. Its not the same. Whethever your DSIII complain bias wants to see it or not. Of course it not "THE SAME". They are different games. However both: 1. 3rd person ARPG 2. Looter dungeon crawlers with emphasis on story 3. More actiony approach to combat to attemtp to alleviate the feelings of passivity in gamepay for the cosnole crowd It's fully valid to compare the two. If we can't compare games from the same genre what kind of games can be compared? Or must they be evaluated in a gaming vacuum?

Players get attacked by enemies off screen all the time. Its one of the complaints with the shared screen and limited view. This is not a 2D top down game, and it doesn't even have a proper fully zoomed out top down view. Try again.

Less is more sometimes, not always. Works for BB King(or even white stripes for modern reference), completely changes the feel of an Orchestra. 'They' don't teach me anything brah, I teach them. EDIT: in the case of cameras angles, more options for the players is always better I think. Even if one view is not as optimal, at least the players gets the choice. (Unless it is just unplayable of course)

5th playthough is pretty enthusiastic though, that's more what I would hope to see. "decent amount of fun" sounds like what I felt about DA2 (basically crap but some decent amount of fun to be had because I liked the characters). I just interpret decent as pretty run of the mill and frankly when games are run of the mill it doesn't get me very excited to play them.

No, actually I think if Dungeon Siege 3 supported a wider variety of camera views/angles and didn't force gamers to share a screen when they are on separate machines it would go a long ways to improving the experience. I want Obsidian to do better, much better, in every aspect of their games. I was hoping DS3 might be a legendary dungeon crawler but Obsidian, like many of you fans, settled for less and it's sad.