BruceVC

You seem almost offended by my suggestion your niece may work in the sex industry. I'm not sure why, it was some of you guys who said being a hooker is a normal job like a hotdog salesman. It was some of you guys who said hookers don't need special consideration when it comes to there job and lifestyle...so I would think you should see my questions as asking if your niece has a normal job...that's the sex industry according to you? Now me I see it differently, I think the sex industry for many girls is degrading and exploitive. I think many of the ladies are victims of terrible circumstances and they do it for survival. And I wouldn't want to add to that misery in anyway

Perhaps I've missed something, but I'm under the impression that Hatred isn't finished, hasn't been released (or else why would it be up for voting on Greenlight?) so how would you know that Hatred is none of those things you list? BTW, Lolita was turned down by 6 major US publishers for content concerns before Nobokov turned to France where the publisher ended up being one that mostly did pornographic novels. France banned it a year after its publication after the UK customs started seizing shipments into the country of the book. It took 4 years for US and 5 for UK publication. The UK publication ended the political career of the publisher. So pardon me if I fail to see how "merit" somehow makes something censor/ban proof... You far too clever to make such a fatuous argument that Hatred may reach the intellectual and emotional heights of Lolita, its just a violent FPS....that's it It would be silly to even entertain this notion, so let not waste each others by discussing this impossible outcome

Fair enough, it probably may appear to undermine the purpose of Greenlight. But there should be terms and conditions that allows Valve that under certain circumstances to remove games. And more importantly its not like they do this often

You keep asking me about your niece and you still haven't explained why my suggestion to remove hookers from the game is somehow responsible for her not playing it? Unless I'm missing something...like does your niece work in the sex industry and now there is some kind of reason hookers effects her emotionally ?

Actually the truth is " the customer is king, but not always right "

Well I'm glad you recognise Valve has this right. Because you guys espouse freedom of expression and freedom of speech but you don't seem to accept Valves right to not distribute a game? Unfortunately this is an example where the customer isn't always right, Valve received complaints and they made a perfectly understandable decision to ban this game. Lets not read too much into it, its not like Valves core business will be impacted so neither will our Steam gaming experience

No. We can decide for our selves what's appropriate for us and what's not. We absolutely should not support this. Steam is too big and too important to let the moral police decide what choices an individual is permitted to have. Explain to me why is it necessary that your opinion gets to decide for other people? Look the reality is are you the best person to decide what games Steam distributes? You guys have no filters and I doubt anything would be considered inappropriate Also when it comes to real censorship you right it can be very subjective and hard to manage. But this is not this type of example, you just need to accept that Valve does know more about these things than most of us and they made the right decision

Would you agree that the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The Catcher in the Rye, Lolita, Sweeney Todd, The Color Purple, Heart of Darkness, and Otto Dix's "The Trench Warfare" are also controversial? (Fun fact: the last of that list was banned by the Nazis for being too gruesome) Not trying to compare this game to famous works of art, but I am trying to say that art is about pushing limits. Not purposefully pushing limits and attempting to be edgy, per se, but art knows no boundaries. Any comedian would tell you a comedian's job is to cross the line. Are jokes about the holocaust off limits? No, actually, no they're not. The ends justifies the means with comedy, so if you can make em laugh with a joke like that, by all means, but if it falls flat and offends, you f***ed up. It's simply a notoriously troublesome subject matter where the odds of pulling that laugh off are clearly stacked against you, but does it happen? Kindly look up any Epic Rap Battle video with Hitler vs. Darth Vader, I think you'll find the videos are outrageously popular despite Hitler very clearly cracking jokes about the holocaust. But comedy is not an exception here. No, comedy is just one art form, and it's not that there are no limits exclusively to comedy, it's that there are no limits to art in it's entirety. You can make art about ANYTHING. Just today, I came across that Youtube video of Egoraptor doing a "Did you Know Gaming" on No More Heroes. The video sparked GamerGate discussion because apparently EgoRaptor is anti-GG and the video provided trigger warnings for the game. And you know what...? I caught myself thinking about how No More Heroes (both 1 & 2) was a game(s) that absolutely surprised me by making some profound statements within it's brief little story. It comes across as some gruesomely violent hack-n-slash that's trying to be edgy, but no, it actually executes it's look very very well. That was a game I WOULD consider art, and you know what that game has? -Depictions of violence against women. Beautiful women, ugly women, young women, old women. -Depictions of violence against the disabled. One of those beautiful women is missing a leg. -Stories of incest and rape -Discussion of violence against women as a real-life hot-button topic. -High levels of violence in general, sometimes to very gruesome degrees. -A degree of sexualization of some of the female opponents Travis (the protagonist) must face and kill Don't believe me? My point is that if you censor art, you potentially miss out on the gems. Yes, games like Call of Duty are absolute ****. They're contrived storylines of glory in a setting where....****ing South America wages war against the USA by hijacking our high-tech orbital missles...those clearly are not art and those clearly aren't winning any awards. But we need those to exist. We need to allow for the bad so that the good can exist also. The moment we start trying to pick and choose what can and can't be, all we are doing is limiting art based on our own subjective beliefs. All we are doing is holding art back and stagnating it. No, you will not like or understand every song or every book you read, but that doesn't mean they deserve to be burned. It means you just need to leave those books to the people who enjoy them and go find something else you yourself would enjoy reading instead, and then read it. It's the same exact thing with video games. All those examples you guys mentioned, like Lolita, are considered great works of literature. They are multi-levelled and nuanced and discuss real societal themes and issues. They encourage debate and it would be a travesty to see them banned Hatred is none of this, its just game with a deeply flawed design where the developers want to be controversial and appeal to people like you guys who will buy there product " in the interest of freedom of expression". Its a con..don't fall for it. Also we aren't even talking about censorship here, Valve has every right to not distribute any game for whatever reason. They not saying you shouldn't play Hatred or it should be censored by others. This is there business decision and its something we should accept as its not like Valve doesn't distribute many games, this is really the first time I have heard about it ?

Yes that is correct, I have mentioned this several times but the Russian economy's free fall is due to the falling oil price and sanctions You don't always need military intervention to get countries to change there actions and political decisions. Sanctions can and do work, they just work slower There are of course examples where you have no choice but military intervention to prevent mass killings and genocide. Like in Libya, Serbia and the airstrikes against ISIS And the Putin internal propaganda machine has convinced most Russians that the interference in Ukraine is legitimate and in fact is basically a Russian right to protect its borders from the encroaching EU and Western ideology Its a massive exaggeration of course but Putins popularity is still very high But yes the state of the Russian economy is a direct cause of Putins policies so I don't have too much sympathy

Its a public holiday today in South Africa, Day of Reconciliation We are going for awesome spare ribs for lunch...and trust me they are utterly delicious

They want to remove the problematic games. Of course, the fact that Steam has such huge market percentage is more problematic than a distributor not selling a game, but that's been covered on other places to death. We should be supporting Steam in this decision, its the right thing to do. Why should Steam want to be associated with a game like Hatred? They can find another distribution mechanism for there game. They want to make a game with such controversial themes, this is the price you pay Well done Steam

Thanks for the feedback Barti, I appreciate the constructive criticism. I just don't believe it, you are misunderstanding my intentions and I always accept I may be wrong in debates, it just doesn't often happen...so you can't blame me for simplifying my opponents argument when its wrong

I can't speak for other countries but in South Africa the CIA actions are still regularly discussed and condemned Especially when we have now been told that South Africa agreed to be used for a black site. I have been very busy on this radio station defending and trying to explain context and the American justification on this at the time. But there is a lot of general ignorance and anti-American sentiment at the moment. This is emboldening those that dislike the West and giving them a platform for Western diatribe. Its quite annoying

One is a gross invasion into my physical privacy and property - the other into my private thoughts and communications. There's so much you might want to keep private, even if not illegal, that could be used against you. An out of context joke, sensitive photos, crazy ideas on an off day that might get you labeled as a nutter - or even insane thoughts that you know to usually keep to yourself that you mentioned to a friend in private one time, half-seriously. There's good reason I don't post all the thoughts that pop into my head for all the world to see - the situation is precisely the same in regards to what I communicate privately instead of publicly. I value my privacy greatly, but I am at the mercy of the people I trust and fraternize with - a risk that I personally risk and accept, as it's more or less directly within my control - and, unfortunately in this internet age, additionally the powers that be...and I would rather everyone remain in control of their own privacy as much as possible, not some government agency run by actors beyond my and everyone else's influence. Both transgressions can easily outstrip the other, depending on the person and circumstances. I doubt nudists, for example, would be bothered as much by having their hobby or occupation (or whatever - does it look like I know anything about nudists? ) recorded. It would, of course, depend upon the person in question...but I'm sure there are at least a few - on the other hand, they might consider their personaly diary absolutely sacred. None of it is any business except to those explicitly privy. P.S. The way you framed your "question" feels rather insulting - probably because you loaded your end of the argument while downplaying mine, and made it into more of a statement than a question. Can't say I particularly care for it. Ouch, so my question was loaded...sorry Barti...that wasn't my intention I feel sometimes my posts are misunderstood on these forums, I wonder how I can get my point more clear? I would assume my perspective is obvious, I'm not malicious by nature yet sometimes that seems to be response I get ?

You right of course, she shouldn't play any game unless Volo endorses it !!! But isn't this fundamentally sexist ......

You remember WW1 and WW2? I don't claim to be a expert in all history but even I know that both those wars weren't about the West vs Russia So Volos point is valid, we have seen this whole " Russia vs West" and it indeed was called the Cold War and yes, Russia lost. Sorry Sarex but history doesn't lie

I am sure you know what is my motivation, i hate Bioware, with passion, there's history between me and Bioware. I hate their attitude. so that what drive me to post everything bad about DA:I. It's not just about the game, it's about Bioware. The game show what they really are, a mirror of themselves and what they have become. Everything bad about the game is everything bad about Bioware. They are not nice people. Jus remind me again why you don't like Bioware? I just need a summary, not too many details plz Is it because in your opinion they have a campaign to undermine Muslims? They permanent banned me on their forum, not before banned me many times. They never address an issue, they just banned and locking threads. They blame their fans, always. They even spit on their fans. Remember David Gaider said the forum is toxic? They can't handle critics from their fans. They also feel they are high and mighty, "end of line!!!", that what they wrote when locking threads. They also favor their fan boys/girls too much, they become like the elites, they troll every threads critisizing Bioware to make the mods locking the threads and ban the owner posts. The fan boys.girls harrasing me each time, the mods also stalking on me, they even ban me for status i made at my own profile, imagine that. They never apologize for their mistakes, in fact they justify every mistakes they make and hope everyone forget about it. Such for example about the horn headed devilish looking Qunari is "Millitant Islamic Borg", they never apologize for David Gaider stupidity. They cover it up and later adding more petrol on the fire. They move on saying Qunari is Ottoman Turk. WTF? Everybody claim "free speech" when they talk about Muslim and Islam. When i answer them, thread get locked and i got banned, "end of line!!!". I don't get "free speech". I ask them why Blood Mages look similar to Muslim women where main character and co end up smashing them all? I ask why Mages look like Muslim women and cut scene showing Templars slaying them all? I ask them why male most Mages look like Arabs? I ask why the Qunari converts wear turban? I don't get answers, but i got banned. group of "Mages" Okay, thanks for explaining. It does seem like you have your own reasons to dislike Bioware

Yes. Different, but at very least potentially equal, and possibly worse. So you boys are telling me that if there was a hidden camera in your house that was filming surreptitiously everything you did, including intimacy with a partner, you would consider this the same type of invasion of your privacy as someone reading your emails ?

I am sure you know what is my motivation, i hate Bioware, with passion, there's history between me and Bioware. I hate their attitude. so that what drive me to post everything bad about DA:I. It's not just about the game, it's about Bioware. The game show what they really are, a mirror of themselves and what they have become. Everything bad about the game is everything bad about Bioware. They are not nice people. Jus remind me again why you don't like Bioware? I just need a summary, not too many details plz Is it because in your opinion they have a campaign to undermine Muslims?

Just to be clear, because I'm obviously not American, now that the US government can monitor your communications why is this such a contentious point? Are you worried people will suddenly just get arrested for no reason? What are you worried about ? Well, let's see Bruce. In the last 6 years this administration has asked local police to take particular notice of people with pro-life or other religious freedom message bumper stickers. They have marked out veterans, the people who I'd argue love the country the most as likely terrorists, all while refusing benefits to victims of actual terrorism. They have "weaponized" the IRS into their own private thought police by using them to persecute people who participate in unapproved political activity. They asserted it would be ok for the President to order the summary execution of American citizens using drones. They set up a website where citizens could report people who were speaking ill of the affordable care act. They have admitted they are already monitoring every e-mail and phone conversation. Now they want a peek in our private internet use. What could possibly go wrong with that huh? Fat chance Obama will veto this. The words freedom and liberty do not exist in that despicable little man's vocabulary. I don't know what kind of country these people want to turn us into but it will look nothing like the one I served and lived my whole life in. The best we can hope for is this trend continues will be benevolent despotism. But I think Americans will wake up one day in the years ahead and realize they are living in Orwell's Oceania. But I won't be here to see it. They will have to kill me . But GB wasn't the support for this bill bipartisan? So you have even been betrayed by your own side....also if Republicans supported it as well can it really be so bad ?

So you won't answer my question and you won't post those links you mentioned, that's a new level of laziness that surprises even me....and I've met lots of lazy people in my life

This is a very interesting and relevant post I have never really thought about it like that, so you saying there is so much pressure on developers to write the " correct socially acceptable " minority character that's it easier to not create any. So is the criticism that bad around minority characters that people feel aren't done correctly ? This would be a major problem if it was widespread because then you are right and certain SJ initiatives and people are not helping with transformation

I really doubt the sanctions would be lifted no matter what happened. Your cynicism towards the West blinds your logic Sarex Of course the West wants Russia back as a contributing member of the global economy. They are an important player, but we can't have them back at the expense of Russia drawing new geographical borders to suit its growing hegemony. I am confident Russia will chose economic imperative over nationalistic fervour over the next few years and stop interfering in sovereign countries, like Ukraine

It's more about than just the principle. Do I have anything illegal to hide when I change clothes within my own home? No, but that doesn't mean I don't highly value my right to privacy in doing so for other reasons. This is a very good point but I could possibly counter it by asking you if you really consider someone observing your nudity in the space of your own home, which is an egregious invasion of a persons privacy IMO, to someone being able to read your emails? Are they really the same thing....for me the obvious difference is that one is a physical invasion of privacy and the other is more electronic invasion of your thoughts and communication ?