BruceVC

True there would be a degree of punitive economic steps against the overall Indiana economy if this bill wasn't clarified, I'm not sure the overall real impact that would have ? But what concerns me more is where if the bill is left as it is I can guarantee you there will be examples of gay couples who want nothing more than to celebrate the fact they are in love and want to get married, this is an example, being denied services in certain businesses. Denied services and humiliated...humiliated quite possibly in front of there cherished partners. So I would rather the bill was unequivocal in its message that it cannot lead to the discrimination of the LGBT community..I wouldn't accept anything less if I was an American

Well for those like me opposed to this bill there has been a continuous and energized backlash from various groups across the USA and that includes many people within Indiana, like the Major of Indianapolis, Greg Ballard. This is very reassuring http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/31/396555062/indianapolis-mayor-religious-laws-backers-missing-the-bigger-trend?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=storiesfromnpr The reality is the USA is making so much progress at moving the country to the point where it really doesn't discriminate against people because of there sexual orientation and legislation like this seems completely anachronistic and unreasonable .....and really out of touch with what the majority of Americans want

He does. But to my understanding the topic has already been discussed to great lengths here and elsewhere, as far as I can tell, and Moderators closed 2 of these threads yesterday (One of them 30 pages long, and I'm pretty sure that TB's soundcloud was probably shared in that thread). Yeah I agree, can we move ? What these types of topics inadvertently do is keep reminding people of this very minor incident and the criticism that was leveled towards Obsidian. Surly there are more important things that need to be discussed about the game than how " a small number of SJW felt the tombstone was inappropriate " ?

Good to see we are on the same side around this debate Volo, even if it is for different reasons Oh and just to be clear, this bill is now official. But what it really means is now being debated as there is huge pressure on the Indiana governor, Mike Pence, to now clarify exactly what it means and how it can and will be implemented

That's my concern, a person could use this bill to discriminate against any group of people that they have some personal issue with and then claim they not discriminating but rather its there "religious right " to do this and they would be protected from being sued due to this bill

I was aware of this development but I have been avoiding commenting because I haven't played PoE yet and I don't want to ruin the narrative or find out too much about the game

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/27/politics/indiana-religous-freedom-explainer/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/mike-pence-religious-freedom-bill-gay-rights/ Indiana governor, Mike Pence, signed into law a "Religious Freedom " bill that has been vociferously criticized by many as people are concerned that this will allow businesses in Indiana to refuse to serve members of the LGBT community and will effectively legitimize discrimination in Indiana against gay people It must be noted that this is not just a case of conservative Republicans trying to enforce there myopic views on society as many Republicans, including Pence, now want to " clarify " this bill There has also been immediate reaction from certain businesses and states who have clearly stated that they wont invest in Indiana in certain ways if this bill is actually enforced in its current form So what do you guys think? What is the reason or justification for this bill outside of the way it can be used to discriminate against the LGBT community? Is there a valid reason for the passing of this bill? Obviously I am opposed to any kind of discrimination so I think its a strange decision for Republican lawmakers in Indiana to want to pass this bill but maybe there is another angle to this I am missing?

This game looks amazing ...I can't wait

That was a very interesting and at the same time a very humorous video I have no sympathy for the older guy, he went to the interview and was lying about his product...it was embarrassing to see him squirm when he realized he had been setup but he deserved it Imagine going for an interview and knowing you will be lying about a product your company sells but you aren't just lying about a minor thing like what goods get sourced from which countries that arent necessarily on the political correct list like NK and Syria. Anyway he is lying about the fact that the drink is safe....its much worse IMO

I am not sure which one Wals is referring to, to be honest. We seem to have an abundance at this time. Always gets his shorts in a knot over oby, so that must be it. Yeah it must be Oby, Wals always use to take him far too seriously and get annoyed.

So your contribution towards this thread is that people should ignore me , thats ironic because thats a comment that isnt relevant to the thread? But I suppose you wanted to say something so that must make it relevant Did it ever occur to you that this thread isnt exactly active anymore and maybe people enjoy discussing the SJ issue I raise, even if it is to disagree with me I assume you are not suggesting that people on this thread can't think for themselves and they need you to tell them the solution is " just to ignore people who try to derail the conversation" Yes I think people on this thread understand what the ignore function means and how to use it but thanks for explaining it....again

Hi Wals "waves "

Oh stop ....its not like you ever cared about what I said when it came to gender issues. In fact I can't remember a time where you ever supported my posts on SJ developments?

You see now I'm disappointed but not surprised, I was hoping you had real some interest apart from a lame attempt to try to prove I'm a hypocrite...which is exactly what Nonek keeps suggesting So there is no need for me to explain because you don't really care and its waste of my time I blame Nonek for your parroting of his views as he makes sense on loads of topics. I just don't agree with his GG stance...well duh !! I know you guys get on well and are forum friends. I respect that but he is wrong about this and now you are as well

Amen brother. Although the warm cloak of familiarity (D&D) makes me very excited. I don't even understand the terminology in PoE. For example, this is an except from the strategy guide on a dagger: What the hell does that Accuracy even mean? Plus 5 out of what, 100? Do those two stack for a total of +13 Accuracy? What would this be analogous to in D&D terms? Wheres my pants? I normally wouldn't have stated this because I also have NO idea how the ruleset works in PoE but I'll apply myself once I start playing the game plus I know there are many people on these forums I could ask who really really understand the PoE ruleset like Sensuki, Stun or Tigranes

I have been only really discussing strippers and strip clubs, not prostitutes. So I would encourage you to try to at least read my posts before you dispute them. And of course an element of prostitution exists in strip clubs but that's not there focus What you guys don't seem to understand, and I tried to explain this, is that what Nonek is pretending to show concern for is the illegal trafficking of women in the sex industry. I am also concerned with that but the places I go to aren't associated with that type of illegal and iniquitous practice You've previously admitted to using the services of prostitutes Bruce. Nonek is calling your frequent attendance of strip clubs hypocritical but stating that it's your choice so he's fine with it, however he finds your use of prostitutes disgusting and hypocritical. Why do you use the services of prostitutes Bruce? I have been only really discussing strippers and strip clubs, not prostitutes. So I would encourage you to try to at least read my posts before you dispute them. And of course an element of prostitution exists in strip clubs but that's not there focus What you guys don't seem to understand, and I tried to explain this, is that what Nonek is pretending to show concern for is the illegal trafficking of women in the sex industry. I am also concerned with that but the places I go to aren't associated with that type of illegal and iniquitous practice You've previously admitted to using the services of prostitutes Bruce. Nonek is calling your frequent attendance of strip clubs hypocritical but stating that it's your choice so he's fine with it, however he finds your use of prostitutes disgusting and hypocritical. Why do you use the services of prostitutes Bruce? Oh so we are making a big deal about something I said in the past and not focusing on my actual current posts ...okay typically this would be where you guys say a person is now debating in bad faith but I don't mind because I sometimes rehash older points people have made I am not prepared to explain how I know and interact with escorts unless you are really interested? I'll happily explain if is this isn't some stratagem to try to catch me out..so do you really want to know?

I can completely understand Tigranes criticism but he is looking at this type of game from a RPGCodex perspective so they generally would be more pedantic and critical around how developers promote there games if they are perceived to be disingenuous I am just looking to be entertained but obviously the game must be good But its important that we get Tigranes view on why he is disappointed with this game because then I have more information about the overall game

Also they do talk about D&D terms like a DM so its not completely dissimilar to D&D ?

I have been only really discussing strippers and strip clubs, not prostitutes. So I would encourage you to try to at least read my posts before you dispute them. And of course an element of prostitution exists in strip clubs but that's not there focus What you guys don't seem to understand, and I tried to explain this, is that what Nonek is pretending to show concern for is the illegal trafficking of women in the sex industry. I am also concerned with that but the places I go to aren't associated with that type of illegal and iniquitous practice

*Depending on where he lives. Though of course I don't believe he resides in a country like the Netherlands or Germany that legalizes and provides support for prostitutes. Both prostitution and the purchasing of services from prostitutes is illegal in South Africa. So Nonek is correct in this case. Circular arguments, which pretty much happens any time we don't have any happenings. Since when did we start discussing the legality of visiting a strip club as if its relevant? If you think the legality of visiting a strip is what should influence your decision then I suggest you get out more KP All the places I visit are legal entertainment venues, see below http://thegrandrivonia.co.za/ http://www.teazers.co.za/menu.php http://www.lollipoplounge.co.za/door.php?return=/&e=3600

No it doesn't, to be truly disgusted you would have to actually care about what happens to strippers and escorts and we both know you are just feigning " disgust " at the fact that I " say I care about womens rights and go to strip clubs " because you think it proves I'm a hypocrite " which would be a good way to dismiss what I say....I mean who would listen to a hypocrite ? Sorry to disappoint you Nonek but I am not embarrassed or see any hypocrisy by the fact I know strippers..back to he drawing board for you or at least stop bringing it up because I believe I have adequately answered the question

I have travelled and lived in several other countries Bruce, and have over three decades of experience travelling all over the world, your insinuation is factually incorrect as always. I have views on the Ukraine crisis, but they are not simplistic and so I do not air them, there are startling similarities to previous cold war conflicts that do not automatically mean I favour one side excessively. This is an international argument I have seen before, that has born bitter fruit and only harmed the nation caught between ideologies. Only the simplistic believe that this is simple. In terms of your buying women for your amusement Bruce if you insist on discussing it then I shall, paying for strippers to perform for you is hypocritical and in no way contributes to any kind of social justice, but that is your choice and you are free to excuse this in any way you choose. However your admission that you use prostitutes is disgusting, you are aiding a repressive, illegal industry that is extremely harmful to women and is involved in the international drug and human trafficking trade. To then preach to others and say you believe in social justice is hypocritical and downright despicable. Better dead than red Nonek ...better dead than red Sometimes the reasons for political and military conflicts are nuanced and nebulous and it becomes difficult to comment as a person doesn't want to be seen to be unfairly criticizing a particular country But Russian interference in Ukraine is not one of those examples and because it is relevant to the UK and the EU I'm surprised you suddenly don't have a opinion, I mean you have an opinion on basically everything else But I am more concerned with your view that you may favor Russia in this development ? Considering the fact you are a proud Brit who also is informed about world events I find this view most incongruous? Now back to the strippers discussion, I consider the girls I know in the industry to be friends in the party scene. So I have a real relationship with them that I can imagine is difficult to believe or understand. And you right Nonek, I dont go to strip clubs to discuss SJ issues with the strippers. They would get annoyed with me and think I was being patronizing if I said to them " do you girls know that you aren't helping the greater cause of reducing the objectification of women in society by working in a strip club " Sorry Nonek I'm not perfect and can't always raise and enforce SJ issues. Sometimes its just not feasible and in the case of strip clubs its not necessary to raise it when you there

Australia. Why? Interesting, well the main reason being often a persons views on politics is influenced by where he comes from and where he lives. And you are a bit of an enigma because you support equality (SJ issues) but seem critical of the West..and I'm not saying these two points are automatically interchangeable but you think you would be less critical of Western historical injustice, like Colonialism, and more complementary to all the benefits and values a person gets with living in a first world country like Australia? But I know we also haven't gone into great detail about your view on the West but from past discussion it doesn't seem that great ?

Its funny Nonek but when someone says things like " I'd prefer to live here than in the west, but I will not take the moral high ground over Russia, even if they are trying to do so through political maneuvering " this usually comes from someone who lives in a first world country and doesn't really know any other lifestyle. And I'm not judging you, I love the UK and think you are very fortunate to be a citizen of such a progressive and important country. And the UK is also part of the West for purposes of this discussion But you being a citizen of a first world country has obviously blinded you in some areas if you think Putins actions in Ukraine shouldn't be criticized. They must and should be condemned because you need to understand why the West is passing sanctions on Russia as this could have an impact on the UK on some level in the future so you should at least understand the motivation behind the sanctions Also can you stop trying to suggest I am a hypocrite because I say I care about womens rights and also go to strip clubs. I am well aware of your constant attempts to get a reaction from me. You actually tend to repeat this point, using innuendo or course, but you have never bothered to actually ask me if I see the "contradiction ". Also I have always considered this flawed criticism from you to be really petulant and really should be below you intellectually ...at least until you know my official stance But since you asked me in a more polite way I will answer you so you don't have to keep repeating yourself in the hope I will respond I am going to assume you don't go to strip clubs or have friends that are strippers or escorts ?. Because if you did you would know your average strip club doesn't need to use girls that are victims of human trafficking. The girls that come into countries like the UK through cartels and smuggling rings don't work legally, they normally don't have access to there passports and almost all money they make goes to the cartel or there pimp. Its a terrible life and I absolutely reject it The girls I know who work in the industry are there of there own free will, no one controls them and they do that type of work for money to live on I don't judge them at all and there lifestyle choice is completely different to the seedy world of human enslavement you are referring to