BruceVC

When you say things like " very highly trained in the psychological methods of extracting information and getting people to become cooperative", I mean, that's like saying "yes but it sounded like he was very well trained at whatever you need to be trained in, you know". What exactly are the qualifications for torture, and do you get one by being a psychologist, or by being a certain type of psychologist? It's hard to say whether you could label psychologists like Mitchell 'amateurs' who shouldn't have any say, or 'expert consultants'. But I know what people learn in psychology PhDs. His dissertation had nothing to do with learned helplessness or interrogation situations, etc. He did work for the military, which included some scenario training re. interrogations. Whether that means it's reasonable that he comes up with this new Total Torture setup and it gets approved, you'll have to decide. Some interesting points raised, but would it be possible for you to not use the word " torture". Usage of that word immediately sets an uncomfortable precedent when we talk about the advanced interrogation techniques that were used. And as the article mentions the CIA still maintains that very pertinent information was gained through these techniques You read the article in the Spiegel and juxtaposed to that are the Japanese hostages about to be beheaded and yet the CIA have somehow become the " bad guys " in this narrative, food for thought perhaps about how we sometimes pass judgement about institutions tasked to protect us? You think 'advanced interrogation techniques' are a neutral term and 'torture' is a biased one? You don't think the choice of AIT is equally a choice to constantly imply to people that it is not torture? You are free to continue to refer to it as AIT, just as I may refer to it as torture - the word that most people would use if confronted with such a scene without other context. I do not think a conversation about who is 'more' biased or not is productive; we should be able to discuss this knowing that both of us can be biased in various ways. 'Very pertinent information was gathered through techniques' is one of those claims that become particularly meaningless in the current set of wars. Notwithstanding the guy they interviewed for this article, you would have to have data about what kind of information was gathered from suspects throughout a given period; which was gathered through torture, which was not; a judgment on whether torture-gathered data could not have been gained any other way; how valuable that information was; etc. Now, I know you do not have access to sufficient information to make a judgment about whether these techniques produced 'very pertinent information' at a sufficient rate to make this 'worth it' by whatever metric. I know this because most of us do not have access to that information. This is exactly the same as the Snowden problem: quote Dianne Feinstein, "I wish we could tell you all the good this program has done, if only that wasn't classified." (paraphrased) In fact, it is so classified (and voluminous) that even the FISA Court, the court charged with judging the legitimacy of at least some of these activities, has confessed that it has to go by the word of the NSA sometimes. It is the same here. You have to go by the word of the CIA. So, do you trust the CIA to assess its own torture or AIT and then tell you 'it was / was not worth it, now move on'? I would have reasonable expectation that the CIA is probably competent most of the time; that most of its personnel are highly patriotic to the United States; and so on and so forth. I would not have the expectation that the CIA can be trusted to assess the morality of its own operations without any proper external audit. Why? Not because it's the CIA in particular, but because independent, external audit is one of the few things that - despite its problems - works to stop institutions from living in their own bubble and getting carried away with things. It is also, I should mention, a founding principle in how American government is designed. You can't just not trust anybody and assume the worst in everybody, because then your own ability to say you know anything or do anything becomes critically undermined. That's what we call the tin foil man who raves in the street; he might be the wisest of us all, but he certainly doesn't have much of a life. Fine. But you have to have certain standards about what you decide to trust, and also occasionally question those standards. So what standards leads you to trust that the CIA was doing something right with torture? You don't seem to need the pertinent data in front of you, or a proper independent audit. Sure, I agree with some of the points you making. What I think is in times of war certain lines get blurred and years later we tend to look back and scrutinize with a much more critical eye what a particular government did. I do trust the CIA in the sense I firmly believe there intention is to keep the USA safe. Does that mean I deny they used questionable techniques to gain information, no I'm sure they did. Like waterboarding, its irrefutable this was used. But I ask people to remember context, 9/11 had just happened and the Western was angry and scared Now The Spiegel writes these articles and there is a tendency from people to pass judgement and make comments like "typical Western governments, they lecture us on morality and yet they tortured captives....what hypocrites " ( I'm not saying you are saying this but I have had these debates many times ) I find it a little exasperating to be honest, The Spiegel should be exposing and updating us on the real and actual horrors being perpetuated by ISIS for example instead of promoting an almost anti-Western sentiment. The West really aren't the "bad guys " after all but when you read these articles you could almost believe that the USA has no interest in adhering to international laws and that there country is some super police state where people are indiscriminately tortured to gain information. Despite the fact these AIT are now completely outlawed and considered anathema by the current US government For me these types of articles are not new, we know most of this, yet they become talking points and have a tendency to confuse people around who the real threat to global stability is

Is it a permanent impact the slightly impaired hearing loss?

When you say things like " very highly trained in the psychological methods of extracting information and getting people to become cooperative", I mean, that's like saying "yes but it sounded like he was very well trained at whatever you need to be trained in, you know". What exactly are the qualifications for torture, and do you get one by being a psychologist, or by being a certain type of psychologist? It's hard to say whether you could label psychologists like Mitchell 'amateurs' who shouldn't have any say, or 'expert consultants'. But I know what people learn in psychology PhDs. His dissertation had nothing to do with learned helplessness or interrogation situations, etc. He did work for the military, which included some scenario training re. interrogations. Whether that means it's reasonable that he comes up with this new Total Torture setup and it gets approved, you'll have to decide. Some interesting points raised, but would it be possible for you to not use the word " torture". Usage of that word immediately sets an uncomfortable precedent when we talk about the advanced interrogation techniques that were used. And as the article mentions the CIA still maintains that very pertinent information was gained through these techniques You read the article in the Spiegel and juxtaposed to that are the Japanese hostages about to be beheaded and yet the CIA have somehow become the " bad guys " in this narrative, food for thought perhaps about how we sometimes pass judgement about institutions tasked to protect us?

But on a serious note if you don't vote for Republicans, and I know you won't vote for Democrats, then who would you vote for? This last election, I wrote in Micky Mouse, Daffy Duck, Yosemite Sam (for Sheriff), Goofy, and Bugs Bunny. I had considered Marvin the Martian but he didn't meet the residency requirements. It's too early to tell for certain, but right now it's looking like I'll be voting for them again next election. " Mickey Mouse " Typos happen. And 'Micky' wasn't auto-corrected. Thanks. No I didn't mean your incorrect spelling, I never correct spelling or grammar because my own grammar is atrocious. I just found it funny that you pretended to vote for Disney characters

That's pretty cool. I'm assuming it will be a for realsies Bard's Tale rather than the parody game they released a while back (which I kinda liked), right? As for Dying Light, I have to admit this game has me kinda interested after watching some Let's Play videos despite the fact that I'm pretty burned out on zombies. It looks like it might be Dead Island minus the crap that eventually made me hate Dead Island. Plus the whole idea of having to scramble to a safe house before it gets dark or you're totally ****ed seems like it will add much needed tension to the game. I'll be interested to hear how this game does once it releases in a few days. I agree, I am also suffering from a certain degree of "zombie killing fatigue " But Dying Light seems to be attempting to shake up the genre nicely

But on a serious note if you don't vote for Republicans, and I know you won't vote for Democrats, then who would you vote for? This last election, I wrote in Micky Mouse, Daffy Duck, Yosemite Sam (for Sheriff), Goofy, and Bugs Bunny. I had considered Marvin the Martian but he didn't meet the residency requirements. It's too early to tell for certain, but right now it's looking like I'll be voting for them again next election. " Mickey Mouse "

Yeah the report is interesting, its not new information but interesting nonetheless The thing about the article I'm not understanding is they talk about " untrained professionals " But that psychologist, James Mitchell, who was involved in the advanced interrogation techniques was very highly trained in the psychological methods of extracting information and getting people to become cooperative it sounds like. So why do they say he untrained? Because he failed to get new information if that article is to be believed ? But Guantanamo Bay has been a blight in the American consciousness for ages, its a real problem that Obama inherited from Bush. And what stupifies me is despite all his efforts to close it down he is still getting blocked by certain Republicans and Democrats. Why not transfer all the prisoners to a supermax prison, I don't understand why this can't be done or why people are blocking this? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/02/obama-plan-to-shut-down-guantanamo-bay-suffers-major-setback/

But on a serious note if you don't vote for Republicans, and I know you won't vote for Democrats, then who would you vote for?

Get a pizza with Tuna, its almost like catching a live fish?

Sweeeeeeeeet...day 1 pledge for sure

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/23/dying-light-be-the-zombie-mode-free/#more-265291 Here is something different, the upcoming game Dying Light and being able to play as a Zombie...looks fun

Happy Australia Day 2015 "Sent to me from a Australian friend " After having dug to a depth of 10 feet last year, British scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 200 years and came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network more than 150 years ago. Not to be outdone by the British, in the weeks that followed, an American archaeologist dug to a depth of 20 feet, and shortly after, a story published in the New York Times: “American archaeologists, finding traces of 250-year-old copper wire, have concluded that their ancestors already had an advanced high-tech communications network 50 years earlier than the British”. One week later, Australia’s Northern Territory Times, reported the following: “After digging as deep as 30 feet in his backyard in Tennant Creek, Northern Territory, aboriginal Billi Bunji, a self-taught archaeologist, reported that he found absolutely ****-all. Billi has therefore concluded that 250 years ago Australia had already gone wireless.”… Makes me bloody proud to be Australian!

Yesterday we did an amazing pub walk through London So a pub walk is not what you think, you actually spend more time walking and less time drinking. We spent the entire day, 8 hours or so, walking from Chelsea-Hyde Park-St James Park( Buckingham Palace)- Whitehall-St Pauls Cathedral and from there onto Spitalfields Market. Where we started drinking at some historic pubs. One pub was 500 years old !!! Check this out http://www.yeoldemitreholborn.co.uk/ Really quaint, we ended up at the Viaduct Tavern which specialises in Gin, I had one of the best Gin mixes I have ever had in my life. I never knew Gin could be so versatile http://viaducttavern.co.uk/ And then we headed back feeling warm and cozy ...which was probably the best way to feel considering how the temperature dropped in the late evening

Yeah, I'm not sure who you think is suggesting killing people is okay? All I said is I doubt there will be riots based on a " racist police force is killing African Americans " ?

It looks excellent, as I expect it to look

So BlackLivesMatter should be WhitePeopleareRacist instead? Either you care that cops are killing people; black people in particular, because otherwise if you're just bothered when its a white guy then you're a racist. I don't think the other incidents are irrefutable incidents of police brutality and cops using deadly force for no reason, there were extenuating circumstances . I made this clear in the various discussions we had. This is different, the guy is unarmed and gets out the car with his hands up and he gets shot..very different story don't you think ?

Guys this is a MUST pledge effort Here is the website for those interested http://www.othersideentertainment.com/

I am and was a huge fan of LOST, I was satisfied with the final season. I think they answered most of the important questions that we were asking during the seasons, like "what was the purpose of the island " And I agree, you can't create another season...it would seem a little pointless ?

What really annoys me about the article is where he says "I love gaming, but slowly and surely, gaming has stopped loving me. The industry I grew up with has slowly eroded, leaving a wasteland of bitterness spewed by those society left behind as companies once driven by inclusiveness and innovation now peddle anger. Gaming is my "Old Yeller," but where Travis could mercifully lay to rest his beloved companion, I have no idea how we are going to fix this. Instead, I watch in horror as the thing I love writhes and squirms, becoming a twisted, pained, unrecognizable creature. And as I look around, I realize this toxin is keeping its bitter users going, trying to hold back the natural progress of society" He makes it out like GG is somehow destroying the entire gaming industry...wow...what a drama queen He can just ignore GG and stop feeding the hyperbole, no need to turn it into " end of the world and all things we know " discussion

Yeah it appears to be pretty damning evidence against the police in this example...not like the other cases like Michael Brown The only positive consideration is that it was a black cop shooting a black person so there shouldn't be race riots as this shouldn't be seen in racial light ?

I definitely don't begrudge people who have faith, I have an issue when that faith leads to a person suffering in this world because of the belief in that faith. Like Manifested's mom and g-mom. Why can't she get married again and have company? Why can't his gran know the truth about her condition? I battle to see how these are examples when faith is good in the real world because to me this seems be about suffering and misery?

Sorry Malc, I was just joking with Zora...hence the . Of course I respect the right of people to comment in the GG thread...I comment there myself. I see everyone is a little serious today.....amazing how we get mass killings in Nigeria, brutal beheadings by ISIS, Russian troops crossing into Ukraine and that barely gets an emotional reaction. But the Pretty Women thread gets closed down and suddenly no one has a sense of humour

Ouch...Malc ...that hurts...I would almost be offended if I really cared

utterly unconstructive and wastes everyone's time) Now you know how many of us feel about the GG thread, welcome to our world

It might be an irrational fear of overmoderation, what with what its going on on the web right now. The fact is that it wasn't technically against the rules otherwise it wouldn't have had enough thread titles to go through the entire Star Wars saga and Pretty woman and post where moderated on a case basis. So it has to be questioned, why now and why over complaints? Is complaining now enough to get stuff banned, or is this just a preventive measure to avoid moralist rage? So I guess that I would feel more comfortable with the decision if I knew what the actual cause of it is an not a vague response. Not sure why you are still confused Orog? The thread was closed because of the photo's of scantily dressed women....not that hard to understand if we are honest with ourselves wouldn't you say?