BruceVC

I feel like I have been neglecting this thread and not engaging with you guys....sorry for that. I hope you guys don't think I was being rude ?

Come now, lets be honest ....I'm sure you constantly feel that there are smart people around you all the time...this should be normal? I love how Bruce keeps posting links that actually disprove the points he's making. He can't read, he's impervious to facts and logic, and yet, despite taking a sound beating in every topic in which he participates, he's never afraid to remind everyone of how ignorant he is. Trollish regeneration at work, I suppose. Why people keep engaging with him is beyond me... Now now 2133 you aren't doing very well with your new approach to be less condescending and dismissive around your forum etiquette ..I have noticed you making some polite apologies on other topics to people when you felt you were being rude and I was impressed. I always support self-improvement moments. But they were simple debates and its easy to be polite on those types of discussions. Try to be more polite with all people, look at me. You see I don't feel the need to insult you despite your belligerence Also I'll be honest, I don't consider these forum debates something where there is a winner or loser. I set my bar on things I consider to be victory firmly in RL and what I need to achieve...but its good you feel sense of vindication for " winning " a forum discussion . All we do here is engage in debate that hopefully people can learn something from. And obviously there is the more light and entertaining topics like gaming which is always fun Now no more criticism from me, I want to explain a few things. Firstly I'm glad you read the articles, I was hoping you would. All those links were posted for a reason which you have clearly missed . The first two are unequivocal "good news stories " about Spain but the third one I posted exactly because austerity is hard and obviously Spain has to stay the course as there are still economic challengers Why would I not recognize that Spain is not all good news. I look at all this austerity strategically and understand it has different degrees of success. I also specifically mentioned that Spain still has high unemployment and government debt. But your banking system is healthy, that is key and fundamental and your economy is growing. What I find bizarre is how you refuse to recognize this. I don't think you are some zealot, in fact I know you are very intelligent yet you fail to see the success of austerity in your own country? I'm not sure if you are hoping the Greeks will somehow get out of austerity and all those billions of Euros of debt will be removed so then Spain can follow the same route? That's a pipe dream and wont happen so my advice its best to be realistic But go Spain, I think they have done very well considering how difficult austerity is so I want to acknowledge this even if you don't

Not sure 50 people claiming something is really 'proof'. 50 racists in London claim there's a bias against their football team, doesn't make it so. Who was dismissing this, by the way ? Seemed most were adopting a wait and see approach, much like the legal system does (then again, what do you care for that). Which is wise for us, I mean we lose out on our "social justice" cookies by not making posts about him being guilty already. Why do you say I don't care for the legal system...I think he is guilty that's not the same thing as me saying he shouldn't have a fair trial if required Nah...you score more " social justice " cookies when you support the rape victims ...so don't worry about that so 50 people is all it takes to confess someone without trial? I like those odds. Please pass this law LGBT, normals will use it to put all of you directly in to prison. Some people apparently didn't read pass the title which is misinterpretation of what Cosby said. He admit that during buying drugs he though about giving it to a woman. We don't know what woman and we don;t know if she was in to it. It doesn't surprise me that you support Cosby..but you don't have much respect for women anyway so why take there side on any issue right?

What judgement from you about people not taking me seriously .....okay this is something I now need to consider if someone of your view of what is acceptable criticizes me ...its like ISIS lecturing you about human rights abuse In US Legal system, a man is innocent until proven guilty. So far he has not been proven guilty (or even liable in a civil case - I believe he settled the only lawsuit against him). This has nothing to do with my personal opinion of the situation. All I offered was a counter to two things I found troubling - the sensationalistic claims that Cosby admitted to drugging multiple unwilling women (which doesn't appear to be true from his statements I've read, as they only discuss one woman and one incident) and the very concept that an accusation (or even multiple accusations) are proof of guilt without there being a legal trial to assign guilt/liability/culpability. If 50 people accused you of rape, do you want the legal system to assume you are guilty and throw you in jail? Or would you rather the legal system provide you and your accusers equal opportunity to prove with facts the claims or to counter with facts a defense against them? Of course if he can prove that women consented to unconscious sex before they took the drug, then situation is of course different, but I have not seen any such proof from him. I Noooo....you won't mesmerize me this time with your forum voodoo prestidigitation ...you are very convincing as I've said in the past and you have caused me to rethink my views on topics but this time I will be bold and resolute and defy your logic !!!!!

Cosby hasn't been convicted of anything, only accused; if you read the information the AP got (rather than some of the sensationalistic news articles) as far as I can tell, Cosby admitted to giving quaaludes to a woman who willingly and knowingly took it. He has continued to deny alligations he gave the drug to unwilling women. From the linked article: So we should take an accusation of crime on face value? Note I didn't believe or disbelieve the victims; I do think that guilt and/or liability is decided in a court of law not by people making accusations, and accusations - in and of themselves - aren't grounds to assume that something is true. Can you imagine a world if a person was considered guilty anytime someone accused them of rape until they could prove they weren't? OMG...please tell me you are not suggesting he is innocent..please tell me that ? So what are you trying to hint at then ? People should not have waited for proof and be like you ? Heck of a surprise seeing you post something along those lines. You didn't need to wait for proof ....there already was proof. When nearly 50 women claim you sexually abused them you just can't dismiss it. Its not like there is this " women pretending to be raped by Cosby " conspiracy movement There have been many celebrities who have had controversial and depraved lifestyles...like Charlie Sheen and his sex and drug addiction. Yet you don't see him getting accused of rape by 50 women. This is real, the charges are real. These women have no need to lie in such a prolific way

I meant to say earlier that your night sky photos are very impressive, the sense of grandeur and panoramic effect reminds me just how insignificant we are in the great scheme of things

But knives are so shiny. And frankly, it's you who misspell your words you dang colonials. Plus the Americans don't say Tomato sauce...they say Ketchup which confuses people when I travel to the USA. " Can you pass the Tomato sauce please " ....." huh... whats that "

I'm going to respond to you on this topic one more time because you clearly don't get it How can you suggest I am being dishonest? There were people that dismissed the allegations but you notice I didn't mention any names. I didn't go back and see who in the thread actually was dismissive because its not relevant to the topic. I am not here on some witch-hunt And once again what is more relevant is this new evidence and you still fail to comment or give your opinion. So if your objective is not to actually discuss the topic but rather to try paint me as disingenuous I'm not interested in that type of childish level of debate. Seriously dude, learn to focus on what is really relevant in a debate and stop trying to undermine the broader point because that is how you are coming across...and I'm sure its unintentional

Whats your point? I don't think Orog needs you to explain or justify his view Also no need to get defensive and try for some unfathomable reason to lessen the point I'm making. Cosby is a habitual predator who raped dozens of women throughout his career It would be nice if you acknowledged this instead of making some inane point about " what I said about what Orog said when he said...." Thats not the issue, this is about a celebrity who for years got away with committing sexual violence. Focus on the issue and stop trying to catch me out and question the semantics around my post My point is pretty self-evident: you misstated Orogun's stance for no real reason, made a generalization about posters earlier in the topic dismissing the accusations against Cosby (which only a very few did), and now are making an assertion about Cosby being "a habitual predator who raped dozens of women throughout his career" as if that counters anything I said (at no point did I comment about Cosby's innocence or lack thereof). If you could stop all that, that would be great. And once again stop focusing on the wrong point, this discussion is about Cosby Its not about what you think or assume I think about what people feel about Cosby, your entire post is a just a lame strawman which once again seems to be some sort of unnecessary defensive mechanism. Did you read Namutree's post ? That would be type of response most rationale people would make about this...but no you are more concerned because " I said some posters dismissed the allegations ". I got it, thanks. So can we now get your comment on the issue if that is at all possible?

Thank you for your honesty and yes I well remember your understandable hesitation around condemning him in the past. The good news is the vast majority of celebrities that we tend to love and respect would never do something like what Cosby did over decades

Whats your point? I don't think Orog needs you to explain or justify his view Also no need to get defensive and try for some unfathomable reason to lessen the point I'm making. Cosby is a habitual predator who raped dozens of women throughout his career It would be nice if you acknowledged this instead of making some inane point about " what I said about what Orog said when he said...." Thats not the issue, this is about a celebrity who for years got away with committing sexual violence. Focus on the issue and stop trying to catch me out and question the semantics around my post

One man hardly a culture makes, so please bring evidence of how the majority of contemporary Hollywood is currently engage in non consensual sex. As that is the only thing that can be called raped and that its the only magnitude that makes a culture. So don't call a glass an ocean. Fair enough, I'll drop the whole "culture of rape that exists in some circles" I don't feel like a debate around semantics when in fact all I'm trying to do is highlight the fact that rape is a problem in most societies and Cosby is looking more and more guilty Interesting that you are more concerned with trying to prove me wrong than the substance of the article? Interesting that every case becomes a soapbox to preach the feminist gospel. Now there is evidence that Cosby did commit those crimes, before he was just being accused and being tried by the public. At this point is probably safe to assume that he's guilty, yet I don't see how that a rape culture makes. Yes as I said I'll drop the whole " rape culture" comment The point I'm making is there is an issue around rape and people dismissing it in certain cases in civil society and more importantly the view " oh here we go again, another example of a celebrity being accused of rape yet he is more than likely innocent ...those annoying feminists always crying wolf " But it seems like you now concur that Cosby is guilty so we seem to be in agreement. The most important consideration is that this is a valid example so maybe we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it next time there is an accusation when it happens to a celebrity or other person

Yes because destroying the economy and causing citizens to suffer because you accepted terms to impose austerity on an already depressed economy so you can get a loan you couldn't pay back is a very responsible thing to do. The former finance minister spoke of three ways Greece could pay off its debt in a sustainable manner in the video Messhugger linked, if you don't think he's right feel free to argue why he's wrong. But it's good to know you think democracy is bad when people don't vote how you want them to. Yes, Germany has really been ****ing things up the last few years. Anyways the referendum has plenty to do with self-rule which is a key component of freedom. Which given the posts the last few pages is what people are talking about ITT. Ah yes the famous and fallacious " its Germany's fault and the Troika for insisting on terms and austerity " Yet as usual this argument overlooks the obvious, why did the the Greek government need the initial loans? Because the government was about to go bankrupt...so once you again you cannot avoid the whole mismanagement of state institutions and finances by the previous Greek government Nice perspective KP, lets attack the Germans for having a strong and growing economy and believing that for the EU to succeed its member states have to adhere to certain rules and regulations. And lets also blame them for supporting austerity when needed You are right that Greek was broke, but they were allready broke before and should have never been accepted into the EU by their standarts, didn´t bother germany much back then. I think you are right, that blaming germany is silly, there are way more factors, but germany is one of them. Besides that, your last words...austerity doesn´t work. That is not a new revelation, infact they knew this 2 years ago as IMF documents showed back then: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/03/1176099/-Austerity-doesn-t-work-New-IMF-report-details-the-damage People keep saying "austerity doesn't work, its been proven " This is a fundamental and relevant point and one I disagree with. Lets take Spain, yes they still have a high unemployment and high government debt but there economy is on the rebound despite what people like 2133 will tell you. There banking sector is healthy and they have the one of the fastest growing economies in the EU http://www.brandonsun.com/business/breaking-news/moodys-raises-outlook-for-spains-banks-to-positive-ending-7-year-negative-rating-308123421.html http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07/02/world/europe/ap-eu-spain-economy.html?_r=0 http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/20/spains-improving-economy-is-not-reaching-everyone And then we have Ireland which left the bailout program end of the 2013 and is fastest growing economy in the EU http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/01/07/irelands-post-bailout-bonds-blowout/ http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-to-be-fastest-growing-euro-area-economy-in-2015-1.2062814 Ireland also went through difficult austerity and came through stronger despite issues around social security cuts ....so to keep saying " austerity doesn't work" simply doesn't reflect the reality. I'm not saying its not hard ....but that is not the same thing as saying it doesn't work http://news.yahoo.com/ireland-preparing-lift-austerity-measures-043224486.html;_ylt=A0LEVy9aX5tVqIEABOFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMHZ0NG9yBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM3BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

One man hardly a culture makes, so please bring evidence of how the majority of contemporary Hollywood is currently engage in non consensual sex. As that is the only thing that can be called raped and that its the only magnitude that makes a culture. So don't call a glass an ocean. Fair enough, I'll drop the whole "culture of rape that exists in some circles" I don't feel like a debate around semantics when in fact all I'm trying to do is highlight the fact that rape is a problem in most societies and Cosby is looking more and more guilty Interesting that you are more concerned with trying to prove me wrong than the substance of the article?

http://kdvr.com/2015/07/06/court-documents-show-bill-cosby-got-drugs-to-give-to-women-for-sex/ So are people still going to deny that Cosby is guilty of habitual rape through the decades? I remember getting attacked at the time for suggesting this....well anyway its a good thing as any attention brought to end the culture of rape that exists in some circles in society is a good thing

<joke> Nah, they're not going to make a single clone of Shepard. They're going to make *2* clones of Shepard, one for you to play and one for you to romance. </joke> Seriously though, I liked the series (admittedly decreasingly during each installment) so I'm curious - if they can recapture the best parts of the series for a full game, then the game will be worth playing. I'm very excited about ME4,...... lets be honest Amentep whats better than killing alien scum and Romance in space

Says the guy sitting nicely in his safe, prosperous and comfortable first world country

Referendum also has lot of to do with that Greeks (as society) don't like cuts in their standard of living and their government asked of them do they want make those cuts or do they trust them in their claim that other euro countries will give them more money if they say no for the cuts. Which as seen by many (even by quite lot of euro area's political leaders) that Greece try to vote that other countries should pay their bills, which has seen as anti-freedom and anti-self-rule thing to do. No Elerond...haven't you heard? A Democracy is where you get to vote if you don't want to pay off your loans and then if you do vote this then the people who lent you the money must just adsorb your debt... That's a Democracy because " people voted for this " and if you don't agree with this you are opposed to freedom and self-rule

Yes because destroying the economy and causing citizens to suffer because you accepted terms to impose austerity on an already depressed economy so you can get a loan you couldn't pay back is a very responsible thing to do. The former finance minister spoke of three ways Greece could pay off its debt in a sustainable manner in the video Messhugger linked, if you don't think he's right feel free to argue why he's wrong. But it's good to know you think democracy is bad when people don't vote how you want them to. Yes, Germany has really been ****ing things up the last few years. Anyways the referendum has plenty to do with self-rule which is a key component of freedom. Which given the posts the last few pages is what people are talking about ITT. Ah yes the famous and fallacious " its Germany's fault and the Troika for insisting on terms and austerity " Yet as usual this argument overlooks the obvious, why did the the Greek government need the initial loans? Because the government was about to go bankrupt...so once you again you cannot avoid the whole mismanagement of state institutions and finances by the previous Greek government Nice perspective KP, lets attack the Germans for having a strong and growing economy and believing that for the EU to succeed its member states have to adhere to certain rules and regulations. And lets also blame them for supporting austerity when needed

I've found that it's harder to take sides if you stop treating countries as individuals and applying the same logic. "Greece" cannot renege on or pay its debts because it's an abstract entity, not a person, and it cannot act or make decisions. And once you begin digging into what is owed, to whom, why, and under what circumstances were those debts contracted, the issue becomes very muddled. Hell, even considering "Greeks" as a whole is silly, because you are lumping together an unskilled burger flipper that puts in 60 hours a week in two jobs for a pittance, an old lady that has to make do with a 400€ pension, and Papandreou. Should the debt be repaid in full? Does it matter? It's all make-believe anyway... that's the real issue IMO. Bottom line - Greece, the country, made up of voters and politicians, happily accepted truckloads of EU cash from Northern Europe. They squandered it. They don't want to pay it back. As there is no shared European demos, not unnaturally the creditors are pissed off. Why are so many people on this thread battling to grasp or accept such simple and irrefutable truths about this Greek crisis...it truly stupefies me

Well if freedom and self-rule means you destroy your economy and cause your citizens to suffer, due to malfeasance and corruption, for years if not decades under economic hardship then I am opposed it ...you right KP But we both know its more complicated than that since the root causes of this Greek crisis have nothing to do with freedom but more to do with mismanagement, intransigence and demagoguery

There seems to be a lot of tension in this thread and I can guarantee you I know the reason. Very few of you have accepted and embraced Bioware Romance like us Promancers have If you did that I'm sure you will find yourselves more content with life and just a lot less grumpy

we watched the women's world cup and were incredible disappointed. based on our limited viewing o' japanese anime, we expected the USA team to be a bunch o' racist amazons with enormous b00bs who would insult the plucky japanese players by calling 'em "monkeys" and then cheat horribly. the japanese team, by comparison, would do their best and through the power o' friendship they would create a world where nobody would have to cry. the event did not unfold at all the way we expected. even worse, the japanese girls were not particular attractive, and none o' them had bunny or cat ears. no maid outfits neither... and we didn't see one freaking robot on the japanese team. am so disillusioned. HA! Good Fun!

Okay I'm impressed....I assume you mean "steak tartar " ....most people won't touch it because its " raw meat...waaaaaaaaaaaaaah " Its incredible ....truly delectable. And you can have so many things that you can add to it like capers or a tot of cognac. I always have the raw egg and parsley among my base ingredients

Well, I suppose one's perspective on the likelihood of that occurrence hinges on to the extent to which one believes the EU decision making process to be subservient to financial interests. We'll have to wait and see. Also, pretty funny to see Bruce defend "democracy" right up to the point where it is put into practice (cf. Crimea, Greece). Then it's all propaganda, manipulation, etc. Or, should I say, it would be funny if people recognized him for the poe that he is. No 2133, you are mistaking my criticism of Crimea and this Greek crisis with me someone contradicting the values of a Democracy Crimea was/is a legitimate part of Ukraine so even though the citizens of Crimea wanted to join Russia thats just not the way the world works. There are legal and political realities where citizens of a region just can't have there own state or just breakaway and join another. Its not just the fact the Crimean referendum was a farce, its the fact the Ukraine government (you know the people who actually govern Ukraine ) have no desire to give Crimea to Russia. How do you feel about the Basque separatists getting there own nation in Northern Spain, I assume you are supportive of there objectives ? And Greece..no idea why you think I am criticizing there NO decision based on the principles of Democracy. I know this was a Democratic vote, that's obvious. But it was an egregious mistake because I fail to see how this decision is going to get more funding from the European Troika or somehow get the current Greek government to implement the necessary austerity measures needed that will start there economy moving forward