BruceVC

Thank you for finally defining it. At least now I understand your point of reference and the basis for your comments. As for accepting your views as "proof", ah sorry but no. I'll respect your right to express your opinion but I won't accept your views as proof based solely on your say so. But you would force me to prove you wrong? Why not just avoid all that and agree with me ? Also I am still not clear on what Barti definition of polarization is? You good at deciphering things ...what is he saying ? No. I would force you to prove your point if you expect to be taken seriously. It's your call - it makes no difference to me if you want to get into a serious debate or simply present unsupported opinions as facts. And I see that Barti has already answered your question about polarizing. No point in beating that to death. No I want an honest and serious debate but not unreasonable criticism .....its a fine line but it can be done

Great games, very brutal and unforgiving. Especially the first one where you really learn the importance of saving ammunition

I don't like tourists. Don't want to transform Russia into some sort of bordello as Thailand/Baltic states/Cuba/Other touristic countries is. http://youtu.be/bdfaGDnYTDo Oby I don't know why you are complaining about people seeing Russia as a giant brothel? Putin's political decisions like his actions in Ukraine have led to sanctions and with the falling commodity prices the Russian economy is now under serious pressure The Russian people support Putin and his policies. his approval rating is very high. Now these are consequences ...Russia should actually use this to there advantage. I would legalize prostitution and open brothels all over Moscow ....it makes sense if you think about all the hot Russian women?

There is no irony. It's deliberate on his part and it's not new either. He's playing you like a fiddle. Don't bother. Barti ignore him, he is Spanish. They dont understand cultured arts like debating. Lets not stoop to his level

Here: Now that makes sense, I get that 100 % and its interesting Put it all together, Bruce... It's just English, after all.

Thank you for finally defining it. At least now I understand your point of reference and the basis for your comments. As for accepting your views as "proof", ah sorry but no. I'll respect your right to express your opinion but I won't accept your views as proof based solely on your say so. But you would force me to prove you wrong? Why not just avoid all that and agree with me ? Also I am still not clear on what Barti definition of polarization is? You good at deciphering things ...what is he saying ?

There's lots of Mexicans moving here legally, the question is stopping those aliens (not just Mexicans btw) who are coming here illegally. The politilie article is a completely ridiculous piece of propaganda. Immigrants living here legally aren't considered foreign nationals for one thing, they're US residents. Moreover legal immigrant crime rate is very low. So what exactly did politilie prove? There no question DPS caught 3000 alien murderers over 6 years. Yeah I can see your concern, of course its an alarming number if its accurate In South Africa we have about 30-45 murders a day....you actually become desensitized to it and it just becomes something normal, this doesn't make you any less patriotic But I understand you don't want to get to a point where the murder rate is a non-issue like me

I don't think I much left anything I wanted to say unstated. Okay so based on this equivocation I have to assume you have no idea how seriously these issues will impact the USA. And that's fine there is no way to accurately predict what this means for the USA But I am more confident...none of these will lead to the crashing of the economy or an utter failure of congress. So you really just having some controversial and heated debates that seem worse then they are So our definitions are completely different therefore we were having a pointless debate

Yes but you need to be more specific in terms of how harmful this is to the USA overall....is it to be expected so its normal? Are we talking about states wanting to secede..or this is just robust debate and anger but there is no suggestion the USA economy will collapse ? You cant say "this is splitting the USA into different ideologies " as the USA has always had vastly different views on topics like immigration and gay marriage so all that is different now is some things have been decided by the Supreme Court ? So what are you worried may happen ?

I want to respond but I dont want to be called condescending ? Then I would feel I haven't beaten that bad habit..granted you may be exaggerating but kgambit also said I was being rude so I am going to agree I probably was condescending I would prefer if you just accepted my views as the proof instead of a long protracted debate with various links where you eventually concede that the USA is not a polarized society ...but as kgambit said we haven't actually defined what polarization means? For me it means issues that could rip the country and society apart for years and this would destroy its economy like Zim Whats your definition?

Yes this supports my post...there is a degree of hyperbole and rhetoric when it comes to Mexican immigrants

So it means in GTAV context you enable everything in the GTAV graphic and advanced graphics settings within the game ..not the AMD control panel

Okay I'll try not to say you are wrong...but I'm not sure how I would disagree with you then? I dont mind the odd link...I'll read this

When has our huge border with Mexico been 99% secure? When have we ever tried to make it 99% secure? And it's not so huge compared to the size of the country. You don't get it, these people are here illegally. They are not supposed to be here in the first place. If they weren't, the 100's of thousands of crimes they commit simply wouldn't happen. http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2015/07/22/alien-crime-wave-in-texas-611234-crimes-2993-murders/ Not really. You can make it more secure with a chunk of money that the US doesn't have right now. You'd need to hire more border patrol agents and provide more resources to that, but the current trend is to instead just slash funding all over the place (including to the IRS... where 1 dollar of funding usually cuts to about 5 in revenue). And it's not that we don't have jobs. Right now illegals are doing jobs that most americans throw up their hands and declare "beneath" them. Border patrol budget has been increased significantly actually. But it won't do any good until a proper secure fence is build, and they can do that just with all the money they're spending on illegal alien children they refuse to send back. And dealing with the government is hard for everyone, not just immigrants. You think it's fun for me to spend half a year just doing my taxes? WOD, I respect your view is not based on some bigoted view of Mexicans but rather a real concern for things like crime. I get you are being sincere But come on buddy, the whole "lets build a bigger wall to keep Mexicans out " is exactly one of the real factors that keep hurting the GOP voting numbers. There are people in the USA that do see this as some sort of "Texas Republican Right Wing rhetoric " that is incongruous in modern US politics It just seems like a strange way to address a SJ issue ....you guys need to learn to think of solutions that people don't find offensive even though it has its practical objective I can see that

Actually thats not accurate..I agreed you were right about your circles ? It sounds like you think I am being condescending again...I hope not because I have really working hard on not doing that But I can't retract the whole " asking for evidence " ....this is not how we debate as it creates a distraction and suddenly people " win " a debate because they can post the most links...also suddenly I am expected to read all these webpages and I get criticized for " not debating in good faith " if I don't read long articles No lets just keep this debate normal and not use links unless really necessary

Very valid points and yes I do RP in game in similar ways to how I am in RL So I never play an evil character and always think about my options in a SJ context where applicable. For example in Witcher 2 when I found out the king raped that women I killed him despite the political consequences ...as in RL I am very opposed to violence against women But I basically agree with everything you said ....good points girlfriend

Yes of course no hard feelings,I do like Romance but I was just joking with the Op because he really thinks the discussion should end because his question was answered? To be honest this debate has evolved to a point when I couldn't even remember the original question And thats normal with these forums ...we don't restrict our views to " stinking topic criteria " ...we always evolve the debate with our prodigious intellects...now back to the point about my worrying attraction to pixel generated female characters

Barti I can't seem to win with you ...I get attacked for disagreeing with you and then attacked for agreeing....maybe tell me next time how I should respond ? Also I am not dismissing your point as much as just disagreeing....which is the purpose of a debate isn't it ? I don't think you should worry about grace in a debate surly ..lets just discuss the issue and stop worrying about the PC element ?

And how is that any different than you expressing your view based on your perceptions and experiences? I honestly do not understand what makes your point of view special Bruce. For all you know, Bartimaeus' close circle MIGHT in fact be extremely polarized in their opinions. You might at least afford him the respect that his opinion deserves instead of being dismissive of it. Fair enough, I accept that Barti is correct about the polarization in his town or circles he moves in. I admit there are dysfunctional groups in the USA ....we all watch Jerry Springer But this doens't apply to the whole USA ....and you guys think I am being dismissive and arrogant, I have no issue admitting I am wrong...lets at least give me some credit ?

Thats not a bad assessment, I'm impressed with how you have identified some of the issues but each one you mentioned is actually more complex which only adds to the nuances For example as you said Zimbabwe tried the much threatened African diatribe " lets take the land from the whites and nationalize the economy. We are black Africans and we don't need whites or colonialists " and they did it .....could it work? African countries gave it tacit support as the perceived influence and ownership of resources that whites have in some African countries is a contentious point as you can understand But what happened? It didn't just fail...it was an epic fail. They don't use there currency anymore, they have an 80 % unemployment rate , they have very little productive land, they lost most foreign investment and 30 % of there population has become economic migrants and is forced to work in neighboring countries ....and they send money back to support the unemployed family members stuck in Zim This was a terrible lesson to learn for Zim but an important one for the region... " don't underestimate the value of white people...they do contribute " , So now in South Africa the ANC is aware of this and is understandably very nervous to do anything that will impact the economy. Our government run parastatals like the national airline and electricity provider are suppose to be profitable yet every single year they require billions of rands of bailouts to keep them afloat. So the ANC are well aware that they are not really good at running profitable businesses. So the public sector is a mess...yet the private sector where I work is very profitable and honestly keeps the country going due to the taxes and employment And now you understand some of the background this next point will make sense. Many black South Africans are unemployed and feel disenfranchised and disillusioned in the new South Africa...20 years after Apartheid they are not only unemployed but also the whites still own 65 % of the land And the ANC will not legislate to change this as everyone knows what happened to Zim. But the main reason for the high unemployment, about 30 % , is the fact they are unemployable ..the education system in the public sector is so bad that people are pushed through to grade 12 and " pass " yet they can't speak English. So they won't get a job in the private sector so they end up on social grants and basically never ever work But we accept this reality, we help the blacks we can. Anyway you can understand how some blacks feel upset and also feel whites are " privileged " even though Apartheid ended 21 years ago.

It doesn't matter where I live, human nature in a country as large and opinionated as the USA doesn't change. I don't need to live in the USA to have an opinion on its culture considering how accessible and transparent everything in the USA is. I can read blogs, go to websites and actually chat online to people in the USA at anytime who study the nature of discourse in the USA ...and I can promise you many people see the polarization as robust debate You made an original point that the USA is a polarized culture ...I said its probably just your view based on your perception And Barti please stop asking me to provide evidence to support my view ...you sound like KP, its annoying . Its irrelevant to my point when what I am saying is obvious. If I say " Obama is president of the USA " you won't ask me to produce evidence There is this new way of debating from some people on these forums where a standard response is " can you produce evidence " instead of just disputing the point intellectually Lets not be lazy, you notice I don't ask you for evidence

Thats the funny thing, I'm not trolling but I am teasing you a little and showing you the inherent contradiction in your guys logic...but you need someone to point it out You don't agree with me because you have your own opinion and I expect you to be honest? So we end up debating...someone who doesn't know us ends up thinking this " thread is polarized " ...yet it just us debating. So the word polarized is very subjective

Thanks for supporting my post, at the very least. I didn't like posting that, because it seemed very dismissive of Bruce's perspective - which wasn't my intention - but the fact remained that he was directly contradicting me (and on multiple points) without providing any actual sort of logical counterpoint or evidence while saying I was wrong and that he knew better. C'mon, Bruce: didn't we just have a discussion not too long ago about condescension? No it was nasty as you were directly disagreeing with me which many would say is you polarizing the debate...why not just agree with me?

Barti does live here after all and you don't, so I am more inclined to accept his first hand perspective than yours. Or at the very least to accept his viewpoint as being uniquely his. Your response (which is pretty dismissive if you want to know the truth) fails to recognize the possibility (actually likelihood would be more apt) that the circles you both engage in would have entirely different demographics that would make the internal dynamics substantially different and result in complete polar opposites in viewpoint. I would not even attempt to answer you unless you define what you mean by "the place they live"? Are you talking about your immediate neighborhood? your city? county? state? or the country as a whole? or perhaps your circle of school friends? or all of them? Edit: And it seems that I got ninja'ed. lol Yes since you guys suggested it appears I do know more about American society than you guys if you are seriously suggesting that US society is polarized Why do I have to point out the obvious? The type of polarization you guys seem to have an issue with is just a sign of an intelligent and robust society where people actually want to debate issues and are passionate I'm sorry you guys have an issue with free speech ....but its important to many Americans

But you see thats part of the fun of Romance, it has to be a challenge where you need to consider what you say to prospective partners If it was too easy it would lose its exciting unknown appeal ....where you are not sure of the next Romantic dialogue option I also use to give the best equipment to my Romance ladies ...so Viconia and Isabella were always very well equipped. For me I do tend to spoil my girlfriends in RL so this just seems normal