BruceVC

Well, if Capitalism worked as it should then there wouldn't be any need for affirmative action. Capitalism is working how it should, those who control production, distribution, and exchange of money are being enriched while those that don't control must sell labor in order to subsist with any leftover currency being used for entertainment or purchasing capital in the longshot hope they can utilize it to enrich themselves. No, ideally everybody can become a capitalist. You only need to subsist under your means, work hard to increase the value of your labor and purchase capital. It is not rich people's fault that those lower class plebs have no access to the best education, the money required to start your own business or the connections to make it work. They should had just been born into it like they did. The ideal is a nice sales pitch, but it isn't reality. In current practice, Capitalism tends toward concentration of wealth and stagnation of social mobility. I'm sure someone has an all-new all-different Capitalism that doesn't, but that ain't gonna be implemented peacefully any time soon. I have one, its the one where you're allowed to kill the competition and companies die out due to literal infighting. Why are we talking about this again? You right ..it does seem pointless

Well I would like to pay you a compliment, you often spend time explaining a point in more detail than I expect ...and I appreciate that ..

Can I ask you a question, I have to be honest I don't understand how you can live in the USA but not like your country? I am probably misunderstanding you ?Because there is a lot to dislike. Off the top of my head: 1) I don't like being spied on by an increasingly authoritarian state. 2) I don't like the power private corporations wield, such as getting laws made that benefit them at the expense of people such as TPP or PIPA. 3) I don't like having money taken from me to support foreign wars and drone assassination. 4) I don't like the political process being blatantly controlled by corporate powers and billionaires. 5) I don't like the tendency to intervene in other countries, usually leaving them worse off, while abandoning citizens here. Okay fair enough, I may not agree with those points but I can understand how that would influence your view of the USA

Can I ask you a question, I have to be honest I don't understand how you can live in the USA but not like your country? I am probably misunderstanding you ? You mustn't feel too guilty Gfted1 ...I can only imagine what you already live with what with all the " white guilt " that probably keeps you awake at night..its okay to want redemption but I don't think Gromnir expects that

I appreciate your honesty, I have never been to Canada. I must say you guys seem to have a great place. I know South Africans who have immigrated there, they love it Its a bit cold for me

Well, if Capitalism worked as it should then there wouldn't be any need for affirmative action. Not always ..sometimes AA is needed to address historical injustices ...like Apartheid ? Not really, in the idyllic world of Capitalism where the Free Market will fix everything it means that a segregated society will split into two societies. Except that it doesn't because of government regulation. Sure thats the theory but what if the one segmented society is dehumanized and undermined due to a legal system of bigotry to the point where the majority of that society lose there identity and confidence in themselves ?

Gromnir I know you probably don't like these compliments but I find these types of posts you make really interesting You always have so much pertinent information to share and I generally learn something new from you, nice one Doesn't seem like there are many topics made just for that, most of the time it's on some world event - of late if it's political it involves the West ****ing with some people. Fighter and Sakai are Russian, I think, and have seen them criticize their state as much as any of you Americans. As for oby, well, he just trolls people - less so since Walshingham's not around to constantly bite his bait it seems, heh. Around the world, some people can come up with reasons other than envy for having a dim view of the American state - some are justified, others are not. Malc are you proud to be Canadian, would you say you are a patriot?

Well, if Capitalism worked as it should then there wouldn't be any need for affirmative action. Not always ..sometimes AA is needed to address historical injustices ...like Apartheid ?

Eh, sometimes I feel like I do live there. Whatever dumb **** the US of A does, the EU is likely going to follow. Because they're idjits. TN are you proud of the Netherlands...would you say you are a patriot ? But Hurl lets be honest,,,you can't take criticism from Oby seriously, he isn't a real person. He is vaporware

You right, you guys have an amazing country. I love visiting the USA,...it just seems at times you Americans dont seem to appreciate what you have as sometimes you seem to complain about things that aren't that bad for an outsider

Well CNN International is very objective, they feature the Republicans and Trump quite regularly CNN is objective? I laughed so hard I spit up my coffee! They are not as bad as MSNBC (they make no pretense of objectivity) but I'd hardly call them objective. You know what news source it completely politically neutral in the US? None of them. That's correct. Not a f-----g one of them. All of them tilt to one political philosophy or another either subtly of overtly. But I wouldn't worry about it overmuch. That isn't new. It's been that way since before the last civil war. You sure you weren't watching the local USA CNN....thats very different to CNN International ? Sorry Bruce, I didn't notice you said "international" CNN. I have seldom paid it much attention but since it is a Turner enterprise and he is a big democrat supporter I'd be surprised if it really were "fair". But I don't know. Yeah you will be surprised but there is a difference, I have seen the local USA CNN and I found it a little ...cringe worthy..the presenters and anchors annoyed me for some reason The International CNN is really good and they often interview Trump as he likes this one anchor, Chris Cuomo, so Trump always gives him time and responds to his questions

Sure, but you guys musn't assume I am talking about criticism only. On this forum we normally discuss American developments, like the elections and things like the gay marriage bill I would say there is more constructive debate about the USA than negative?

Its strange but I get very annoyed and amused with some of the spurious and patently absurd views people have about the USA when I have debates on these South African radio stations....you guys wont believe what some people think about the USA

But people dont always criticize ...sometimes its just "advice '" about the USA generally Its an interesting social phenomena

That sounds like something you read in a Chinese fortune cookie But yes you need those things and you have to work hard

Its an interesting point you make, in the past I would have disputed that But I have seen evidence of this in South Africa...its complicated but its not all good, you right

How is any sane person not a Capitalist under that broad definition? They weren't blessed with ownership of production or distribution. Thats just an excuse to not work hard and achieve something meaningful....yes KP no one is going to give you wealth or success , you will have to do it yourself I'm glad to know that working 40 hours a week while taking care of my sick mother and going to university isn't working hard. Okay, I apologize. I didn't mean it like that, besides I am very confident you will become very successful if thats what you want But yes I do understand your RL commitments and I respect what you are doing, I was not working as hard as you at your age and I do realize you are very busy

Something interesting occurred a while ago and it made me think about something I wanted to ask Ros was having a debate with Monte about the UK system of government and as usual Ros was making a very interesting and compelling point and Monte got annoyed and basically said " I don't need advice about my country from someone who lives in Sweden " , it was a complete overreaction but it made me realize how most of us don't like foreigners giving us advice about our country or highlighting issues Yet it seems on a daily basis most of us give advice or criticize or scrutinize the USA and its policies and culture...and yet you guys never seem to get annoyed? Why is that? Are you use to it...do you ignore it..I'm interested in how our American members feel about non-Americas often discussing the USA

How is any sane person not a Capitalist under that broad definition? They weren't blessed with ownership of production or distribution. Thats just an excuse to not work hard and achieve something meaningful....yes KP no one is going to give you wealth or success , you will have to do it yourself

Well thats one thing I have noticed, some people that were discriminated against during Apartheid have no issue demonstrating bigotry ...it can be a little annoying

You cant possibly believe that, it works for almost all countries who understand the principles of the private sector managing the growth of the economy and the free markets Yes there are some failures but I have come to accept that and not let that detract from the overall value that it adds

How is any sane person not a Capitalist under that broad definition? Yeah why not embrace an economic system that despite its flaws does work

Fixed it for you. If we're defining capitalism as "an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth." how is Hillary not a Capitalist? They are all Capitalists, they just have different views on the type of Capitalism Sanders is probably the furthest?

Nah, there is nothing weird about that. He is one of the most respected Political commentators in mainstream US media What's even more funny is that i never said that it was weird, rather that it was funny. Kinda weird that you read my post wrongly. Oh okay.....well next time don't be so confusing