BruceVC

I see you have lots of money to spend on frivolous things like TV series ...do you realize that the majority of African people have never ever seen Netflix...dont you feel guilty? CraveTV, Bell's streaming service is $4 a month and has all the Star Trek series. I would cancel the cable and just have the streaming services but the wife gives me the death stare if I bring that up. Well my friend the international poverty line is $1.25 a day so you are basically spending 4 days of people salary on entertainment ...end of the day I wont presume to tell you what to do because I'm working hard to not be condescending and my g-friend told me it can be condescending to lecture people on a forum about SJ issues even if you right. So I will just leave you and your wife to make a decision you can live with or rather feel comfortable with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_threshold

Sure, I get your concern. You are genuinely worried about the president overreaching But he is gone next year and I can promise you nothing more serious will happen, I admit I don't really understand most of your guys concern with the president making good laws. But thats because where I live people would just be grateful for these types of SJ changes like Obamacare ...but I respect this is important to you but I just can't identify with it But lets see if other presidents do the same because obviously that would be an issue But GD what you may not realize is the USA gets to make a difference in peoples life's ..doesn't that make you feel good that your country makes a difference even if it doesn't feel like it?

You guys seem to have extreme weather ? Do you have things like electricity and running water...I imagine you live in a tent village somewhere in the bad lands of San Diego...just you and the elements....man and nature ...the way its suppose to be ....thats how real men do it....oh and your cheese and PC of course

So you get to talk about it but you cannot ACT on it. Therein lies the problem. The 1st Amendment guarantees the right of "Free Exercise". This sets a nasty precedent that can have consequences elsewhere including compulsory military service exemptions based on religious convictions, "conscientious objector" status, etc. I could go on but this is just two problems I have with it. I have never seen the problem with gay marriage. As I've said before if you object, don't marry a gay person. Don't attend their wedding, don't bake them a cake. That should all be ok. But don't try to stop them from doing their thing because what is it to you if two consenting adults wish to marry? Those who object because of religious reasons, particularly Christians should probably try reading the bible a little closer. Jesus did not instruct us to compel others to follow Him. He asked US to follow Him and lead others by example. Jesus did not believe in forcing anyone to do anything. Gay marriage was coming no matter what. More an more people were wondering what the big deal was. But by ramming it down our throats the SCOTUs may have done more harm than good by damaging the democratic process, undermining the constitution and creating animosity towards gays where they might have been none before. This is a good post and accurately and reasonably positions the general objection. Its interesting but most people on these forums made a similar argument. Even Gromnir who has a gay sister and is a lawyer and not at all homophobic objected to it for similar reasons and he used a very technical response So I know its not about homophobia but real objections to perceived interference by the federal government . I have been thinking of how I can explain why this was necessary in way that makes sense To be honest what I am about to say may sound strange and you probably will be thinking WTF but hear me out. So firstly the Western world considers the USA the foundation of Western ideology...now I can hear our Europeans members saying " excuse me...I don't think that " but they misunderstand the broader point In the world we have this system of government which is basically based on Democracy\Capitalism\Free Markets that despite its challengers actually offers its citizens the best quality of life. Now I know all you guys live in first world countries so this may not resonate with you but for someone like me who lives in Africa and sees the how people really believe in this word Democracy it is relevant. Now the interesting part is for many African people they don't really understand what a Democracy is because in some cases they had an " election '" but then there leaders basically ruled the country as a private fiefdom and they saw no economic benefit so I sometimes hear things like " this Democracy concept is a Western thing ...its not African" because for them they see no benefit due to corruption So there is a basic humanitarian obligation and or responsibility for many of us to try to uplift Africa out of poverty and actually let its citizens see that life is not about suffering. Now this is not your responsibility but the reality is the West is used as the example of how good life should be and the USA is the foundation of that. And the USA was the only country in the West where gay marriage was still not allowed Secondly as you probably know there is a movement in some countries of people who basically dislike the USA...I mean really dislike the USA. Its normally fringe elements of the Muslim community, in South Africa they are particularly antagonistic and really exaggerate what the USA has done, they think that the USA is on some real crusade to annihilate Islam and when 9/11 happened there were cheers heard from the mosques in South Africa .....seriously disgusting and misinformed Now you may think " well thats not my problem " but the thing is these people don't only dislike the USA they actually dislike all Western and European culture. They just are careful to hide it because on popular radio talk shows in South Africa you can't be racist. But its very annoying ..,oh and they all Sunni Muslims and think ISIS is creation of the USA so the USA could bomb Iraq again and that the Arab Spring was arranged by the CIA to.....disrupt the Middle East because " Arab people couldn't possibly want a better life for themselves ...no...they are all happy living under dictatorships like Gaddafi and Assad " Now you may think " but let France and the UK fight the good fight where required " but the reality of the world is despite all the criticism we all know when it comes to military action if the USA doesn't get involved its unlikely the other Western countries will act. And then there is this view " the USA just should say no to all external conflicts....we aren't the worlds policeman" and this may seem reasonable but the USA is a country of extreme generosity. When Ebola was ravaging Africa the African Union did nothing as usual ....imagine not even trying to stop a virus that was destroying 3 countries in your own continent.This was the final straw for me and since then I am critic of the AU So in summary you guys may not see it but many countries rely on the USA to act in crisis, this may sound unfair but the USA also has global interests so it makes sense to intervene in relevant world affairs. And of course you cant have something like no gay marriage in some states ...it was like a contradiction. So this whole gay rights thing was really about the global symbolism and relevance. You don't want to be compared to Russia and trust me people were doing this as a way to undermine the USA So please dont think this was about federal interference but rather a support for Western ideology which is a good thing for all of us

Guys I know not many of you are into electro but try to listen to this , go to minute 21 and listen for 10 minutes But I warn you it is Dance music and genre called Minimal

Shady I never mentioned this before but I also own the new 3 series BWM but mine is 3 years old, anyway I am buying the new shape next month and the nice thing is for the first time in my life I am actually making some money on the trade-in. I did keep the KM fairly low 76,000 km but the point is BMW do retain value. So I did 22,000 KM each year which is good for Johannesburg standards

If you're still talking about America, there wasn't any bill that was passed, it was decided by one man. And you can come up with any right you want using his logic. As far as Socialism, it means the government has a monopoly on the means of production, so there can be no free market in a monopoly. The government decides what's to be produced and how much it will cost. There can be no freedom either, because everyone works for the government and is completely dependent on the government, so no one can go against it. As far as our system of government, yes it is more of an plutocracy/oligarchy than a democracy, but that's entirely because of the ignorant and apathetic voters who are easily swayed by any commercial they see instead of thinking for themselves. The Founders of the Republic said democracy wasn't possible without educated voters, and they were right. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/26/supreme-court-gay-marriage_n_7470036.html WOD I meant this ruling in the supreme court where gay marriage is legal in all states. Now I know you are more conservative on these matters and I respect that. But what is interesting is even people on these forums who support gay rights like me thought this was a step too far by the US Supreme court, what did you think?

How exactly and on what basis? Volo is right Sharp_one ...you need to accept this as the truth. Even if you don't believe Volo I am vouching for him and you know I'm never wrong Ofc it wouldn't hold. I can't tell you about any country, but here in Germany if you bought smth you bought it, except if you bougt it on loan.Since you don't loan a video game There is no way steam could bend these rules in a country whith actual laws. Actually no. WHen you use Steam you had to click to Accept their rules and policy. In there is say they can do this and you accepted it. In there it is explain that you don't really own it and under what situations they can take the game away from you or prevent you from using it. And you accepted it. If you didn't read it, that is not Valve fault. Now by German law you that policy might be invalid but someone needs to sue Valve and that would be big news. Since nobody did yet I guess it is by German law. I would guess Valve also has access to lawyers that can read the law before selling the games on the market. I'll tell you guys something interesting, they are an economic powerhouse for a reason...the Germans really understand work ethos I work with software and we sell two types of this software, cloud based and onsite Now the way all cloud solutions work globally is they have data centers around the world that replicate the data for redundancy like gmail and Office365 And the data centers are normally housed in the USA, Europe, Australia and Japan. Most of the large German customers, like BMW, dont want a cloud solution because of the replication to the USA And its not that they don't like the USA its because they dont want to risk a possible future where the USA authorities would somehow be able to access there personal data and patents so they keep everything onsite and it costs much more but it works for us as I'm a consultant and we don't make any services revenue from a cloud sale as obviously there is nothing to really configure in the cloud as the customer can do it So the Germans help keep people busy at huge customers

How exactly and on what basis? Volo is right Sharp_one ...you need to accept this as the truth. Even if you don't believe Volo I am vouching for him and you know I'm never wrong Ofc it wouldn't hold. I can't tell you about any country, but here in Germany if you bought smth you bought it, except if you bougt it on loan. Since you don't loan a video game There is no way steam could bend these rules in a country whith actual laws. Damn you Germans and your shrewd business minds You right of course and this is why Germany is such a economic powerhouse Sharp one is Polish....he would have believed it

Yep, life become worse... I'm lose previous job (too much partnership with foreigners) and work in evil Russian corporation now. Main effect of sanctions is fail of independent small powers in Russia and consolidation of Russian economics in hands of Putin's friends. In other words power of Putin only increased from all this, everyone forced work to him now. But all negative effect can easily fixed by invasion into Europe. Good loot you known, in this case we can just repeat of III Reich economical "miracle". Sadly our president is too peaceful for this and if sanctions continued too long it's can cause a coup, when someone much more warlike, aggressive and powerful replace him (or just force Putin to leave peaceful rhetoric and begin a real war). Do West really want such consequences? Or as in case of Taliban/ISIS Western elites are too dumb for predict consequences of own actions? Though IRL we more worried about partying/sex/joy/gaems, than about all these political/economical things. Russians known many ways to stay happy in any "hard times", your whining about hard life in Russia looks a quite pointless for me. P.S. Fake "Russians" from Gayrope just for lulz https://vimeo.com/134960490 Oby you may not realize this but I dont want Russia to fail, why would I want that ? All I have ever said is you can't just invade other countries like the Ukraine without consequences ...I would love for Putin to change his militant view. Russia is an important country and its much better for everyone if there is peace and no sanctions

How exactly and on what basis? Volo is right Sharp_one ...you need to accept this as the truth. Even if you don't believe Volo I am vouching for him and you know I'm never wrong

I love Twilight Zone, I remember watching the ones in the 1980's and being really impressed because we didn't see much good TV due to sanctions and Apartheid

I see you have lots of money to spend on frivolous things like TV series ...do you realize that the majority of African people have never ever seen Netflix...dont you feel guilty?

Everybody who says that would be wrong. Theoretically near every economic system is 'fair and free' because that is what sells it to the masses who, whatever the system, will inevitably be the ones at the bottom. Yes, this is the silly argument that socialists would have to make in order to "say exactly the same thing" about socialism, but no, it's not the argument I'm making. Well.. we'll see. Frankly, I am expecting as idealised a system as 'perfect' socialism or any other kind of theoretical -ism but I'm open to persuasion. Well, I've seen, and I'm not persuaded. It's about as idealised a system as it's possible to get; where the magic hand of the market waves and everything is fair and free with no barriers, no conmen, no power aggregation or monopolies created and the glories of hard work and reticence are rewarded as they so richly deserve and laziness and profligacy are righteously punished. It's pretty much the exact (economic) flip side of anarcho marxism or anarcho syndicalism where it's easy to design a perfectly (theoretically) free and fair socialist system by hand waving- everybody gets an equal slice of the pie doled out monthly/ weekly and is free to spend that pie however they want with strict rules to prevent aggregation or graft; and enforcement officials who can only be elected once or are balloted. Couldn't get more hand waving in a Queen Liz montage- for either idealised system. I am not sure if you are being serious but I will treat this post as genuine as I have heard similar views It sounds like the perfect idea and it may be seem reasonable because its based on a system that is about true equality for all...how can anyone object to this type of idea? But there are several real problems with this type of utopia. Firstly human beings are not equal but this is actually one of our strengths. You will always get people who are more ambitious and others who are lazy. We excel when under pressure to be innovative .True socialism failed for a reason, the Cubans were probably the most sincere in there belief during the Cold War. I remember reading a good book called Conflicting Missions which was a fascinating and rare read about the Cuban military endeavors in Africa during the Cold War. And Cuba has special resonance for South Africa as we fought them in Angola, but all we knew about them was that they were ignorant zealots who had traveled from across the world to kill us and spread there inconceivable ideology...Communism But when I read that book I learnt new respect for them, they truly believed that Capitalism was a great repressive form of government, something evil and they really believed in a free and equal society through there view of socialism. And unlike the Russians and Chinese they held a belief in black Africans being uplifted and creating there own destiny ...so in some cases they spent years living and training certain African leaders and groups. They received no money and lived in jungles and were killed and suffered in numerous conflicts and all because they believed in this better life for Africa Of course the majority of African leaders had no real interest in socialism....they wanted wealth and frankly I can't blame them after the deprivations of colonialism. But they needed the Cubans so they played a part and pretended to believe in a" system where all would be treated equally and the wealth would be distributed ...unlike the greedy Capitalist " So a true equal society like some suggest just doesn't work because of human nature. Also you need certain people to take a lead and drive certain initiatives. Without this industrious many people would be happy to live a sub par existence or to unintentionally suffer ...so why go through all of this just to prove that for a year or two everyone is equal? And then when it falls apart or starts to deteriorate who fixes it ? Now you may say ....but who says it will fail ? It will ...it failed in Africa where you think it should have worked. No its best to accept that in life we need a system that motivates people and rewards them for hard work. That's the best way to get results from human beings. And we also have to accept that there will always be people who live a more difficult life ..but thats fine as we help people when we can

@ Magniloquent I have never really gone into detail with you about the history and reasons why the West and mainly the USA does certain things in the ME If you interested I can go into detail but it will be several paragraphs so I'll only make the post if you are interested but by the time I am finished much of what the USA does in the ME will make sense

I added the private in their. The simple answer is: I'm not sure what you mean. Care to give an example? Of private property or private property being a limiting entry into a market? Private property being a limiting factor to entry into a market. I think Baro's point was that even if he's generous enough to grant (not that he believes it; this is just a thought exercise) that "proper" free market capitalism could work without devolving into corporatism or being unfair in and of itself; what would be done about the the wealth that has been wrongfully acquired by the previous system? He presents us with two uncomfortable scenarios: A) Redistribute it to get an even playing field and start from scratch. -Don't even know where to begin in addressing why this option is so unpleasant. Suffice to say it'd be messy and likely would be the cause of BIG trouble. B) Just let the past be the past and try to move on allowing those who abused the previous system keep the wealth they've wrongly earned. -This option isn't all too pleasant either. It gives some of the worst of our society an unfair advantage not to mention is just a knife in the eye to justice. Not exactly appealing. To be honest I don't quite have an answer for this myself. It's kind of a no win scenario. I guess I'd default to B) but that answer doesn't seem right. I'd definitely be open to alternatives. I'm interested in Ineth's response cuz I'm kinda stumped. Clearly, I haven't spent enough time thinking about how to transition to a free market society. Or did I misunderstand you all together Baro? Nope, you got it spot on. Baro I'm glad you are commenting on this and I understand where you coming from even if I differ on my view . I have been told I come across as condescending and the result of that is certain people who differ with me ideologically just wont answer certain questions that I ask them. For example I have asked Zora and 2133 why they are anti-Western and neither of them responds ...and the reality is I am just trying to understand there view. Some people I get, like Sarex as he is Serbian and I know what motivates him and even though I don't agree with him I know why he resents the West And I enjoy debates with intelligent people on these forums...yes I mean intelligent so for example you and Zora will have different views but thats fine. But it doesn't help me if I come across dismissive and then no one who has a different and unusual view feels they want to engage with me. So I'm trying very hard to not be condescending but its hard as sometimes I dont mean to do it So I want to explain why redistribution is not as simple as it may seem and please tell me at the end where you disagree. I have some experience with this topic as this is something that comes up regularly in South Africa where many black people want land and things like mines returned to them as they feel this was stolen by the Colonialists I assume when you say redistribution you mean the indigenous people like the Aborigines ...is that correct? If not can you explain who you are referring to ?

Dude I respect the fact you spend time making these posts ...but I have to be honest I find it really hard to even agree with one thing you say No offense but I just don't think you understand the political dynamics of the ME ....there are no "good or evil " countries. The countries in the ME have there own ideological and religious objectives that most Westerners dont understand So yes ...Iran cannot be allowed to get a nuclear weapon because there is a historical and real conflict and tension between Shia and Sunni in the region. For me its not even the fact I am worried Iran will attack Israel...they know that would be suicidal. No the moment Iran gets a nuclear weapon of course the Sunni countries will need one. The USA is no longer completely aligned to the Sunni countries and Obama has wisely and difficulty realized that the USA needed to also negotiate with Iran in order for the USA to be able to stop getting involved in the ME Now I don't mean to be rude but if you don't realize how Iran getting a nuclear weapon would upset the region then I'm sorry you just don't understand the history and political reality of the region....and thats okay. Most people don't understand it because it is f***g confusing because many times certain countries do things that just dont make sense to us

No its fine I promise, its considered an average strip club in JHB...not that upmarket but the girls are friendly and don't mind you talking to them for hours if they enjoy your company and you dont act weird And for me if I can't talk to the girls there is no point so it works for me After some time they probably are all up to your SJW manhood, amrite? You see when I read a comment like this I am always reminded how many of you guys just don't understand me or don't go to strip clubs When I go to strip clubs why would I push any SJ agenda ? I go there to admire the female form and party but I treat the girls with absolute respect ....and you know what most of the girls really appreciate that. They are use to a certain level of either contempt or salaciousness from guys but when they meet someone who just seems to really want to chat but not in a weird way they appreciate it....and yes I wont lie of course this has benefits for me. They normally end up partying with me afterwards which is actually much harder to get right then it seems.

Capitalism sounds like a good idea until you realize that it only works when the gap between classes isn't to wide and there is mobility. Don't know why they keep arguing Capitalism thought, because what we have is a plutocracy that has been accurately described as social welfare for the wealthy. I think I covered my thoughts on that on previous threads, so I'll just say that systems are never the problem as they tend to be made with the best intentions to work under their circumstances. The monkey wrench its always the human element. One final note; people better get used to the idea of socialism as our spending capacity will soon not be able to keep up with production and some markets will shrink further decreasing spending power. Social planning to enable employment or to make basic necessities affordable to everyone will become a necessity as it will increasing taxes on companies and ensuring that they employ domestically. We might see a lot of capital outflow but with a boycott in place it would mean that the markets will be ripe for a takeover. Interesting post, whats your view on the gay marriage bill that was passed ?

So like I said, your own special brand of capitalism that hasn't been tried. Then you're blind. When you've got the divide between propertied and property-less, employee and wage-worker, master and servant there is going to repression by the former against the latter to maintain their position. Are you going to forcibly redistribute resources so everyone begins with a level start/actually has resources or are we going to leave things as is so those who already have the most wealth and power have greater freedom to exploit these privileges while the poor and hungry bend over for their economic masters. Depending on your own economic background I'm guessing you are either incredibly servile or a would-be tyrant. Baro I think you guys are talking past each other ...I agree with both of you for different reasons Everything Ineth says is true but you also right, there will always be people in a Capitalist society who will live in poverty ....but thats fine we accept that. We are not going to redistribute anything because the view of people who believe in free markets have a view that people need to gain there own opportunities...they can't expect others to do it for them And if they can't for a variety of reasons then yes they won't have the same quality of life as others ...and I'm not judging people for there circumstances. I'm saying this is the reality of a Capitalist society...but the good outweighs the bad

I added the private in their. The simple answer is: I'm not sure what you mean. Care to give an example? Namutree you thought the gay marriage bill was a step to far by the federal government ? I know you support gay rights but this more about the perceived interference by the federal government ...is that right ?

Oby how is your economy doing ? I am sorry for the reality of your economy but you did bring this on yourselves ...Putin can turn this around. He needs to pull out of Eastern Ukraine ...you can keep Crimea. I don't understand why governments battle to understand this ...very few countries can sustain or grow there economy when there is risk or instability. And there aren't even severe sanctions...what you feeling is just the impact of the initial nervousness..it could be much worse. And then add the falling Oil price ... http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/11/news/economy/russia-crissis-gdp/index.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-19/russia-rewrites-blueprint-for-growth-as-recession-dooms-consumer http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-recession-growth-contracted-4-173911831.html;_ylt=A0LEV0PP0NdVUDYAezNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWZrdWhnBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM1BHZ0aWQDQjA0OTNfMQRzZWMDc3I-

GD " waves " Where you been? Everyone said you had been arrested by the Feds ...we missed you Not an unlikely explanation. I just disconnected from things for a while. GD I need to ask you something, what is your view on Trump? We have been discussing him. Obviously I support the Democrats and Clinton but I am keen for your view ..please be detailed

GD " waves " Where you been? Everyone said you had been arrested by the Feds ...we missed you

They're not forms of socialism. They're capitalist whether or not they're eager to admit it. Obviously, there's some socialism there just like everywhere, but far less than normal. So how would you explain Scandinavia ranking better in competition, ease of making buisness, lower corruption, democratic participation and on and on...? We've had much much stricter government oversight and taxation than you guys for basically 150 years. Shouldn't we have devovled into totalitarian states by now? By your definitions...Scandinavian countries have for the most part free-markets. All of them rank high in freest market ratings I've ever seen. How is socialism incompatible with a market, assuming that by market you mean exchange of goods for money or other goods? I suppose there isn't any innate incompatibility between socialism and markets (although there are no shortage of socialists who oppose markets of any kind); the incompatibility is toward *free* markets which include things like private property and tolerance toward hierarchical institutions like private businesses. But isn't property a limiting factor into entering a market? Especially in cases of intellectual property. Some examples of the differences between the Scandinavian countries and the USA would be Very high taxes in the Scandinavian countries but excellent and working institutions like education and healthcare. This is very important ..its a bizarre thought for people that live outside the USA to think that there are people in the USA who suffer medically just because they have limited healthcare There are not many billionaires or super rich people in the Scandinavian countries compared to the USA ..of course there are rich people but there society is more equal The Scandanvians believe in the role of there goverment in most cases, they don't see it like many Americans do where you feel the federal goverment is interferring in the affairs of some states. For example when the US Supreme Court passed the gay marriage law many people outside the USA thought "about time ...welcome to the rest of the West " not realizing that many Americans felt the Federal government has gone to far Our friends who live there can disagree with me but those are some of the differences