Lampros

I just like war hammers due it's universal damage options crush / pierce and that's one category in weapon specialization, plus might stacks, so it's +2 mig. I love my Godansthnyr, too, and I was tempted to do the same. But I think Boerer is right here, so I duplicated Little Savior instead. Having +10 to all your Defenses for everyone is just too much to ignore.

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this topic the whole week - as well as fiddling around with the PoE Speed Calculator. And it appears that almost every speed-related enchants, spells, gear, and potions only reduce recovery time and not the time it takes to perform the actual action itself? Further, only Dexterity affects the latter? Am I correct? It's a bit counter-intuitive, if this is the case. In particular, I was surprised to find - if the PoE Speed Calculator is indeed correct - that even the weight of armor does not affect the time it takes to perform actions.

My Chanter is always on Mechanics duty, so he gets Gloves of Manipulation without fail. But good to know if I ever play 2 Chanters again!

Agreed. I am still bummed about that decision. For me on the PC, I can highlight the pet and "Ctrl 7" if it is a 6man party. Press 7 again will select the pet. Technically 8,9,0 should work but I never tried those. Very useful if I ever play a Ranger.

I totally agree. Why not just duplicate Little Savior and give +10 to everyone - which is what I am doing on my current PotD run? Well, little Savior requires going to the bottom of the endless paths and defeating a terrifying beast. Defiant resolve is available at level 1. Also, they both stack so why not both? I guess so much micro-management for an incremental benefit on just one character perplexes me. But then we are all wired differently!

Yup, context is king! But I do see a lot of folks recommending the Sheet and Shod-in-Faith and other on-crit items on general builds all over, and I was so struck as to how inefficient they were when I tried them. So I forgot the context a bit!

After using it almost exclusively on my hybrid Fighter in my current PotD run, I am surely convinced. Wayfarer's Hide is indeed fantastic; I seriously considered duplicating it instead of Little Savior this run. I don't like heavier armor pieces like Argwes Adra though. The weight slows you down too much for my taste, and the DR becomes less relevant mid- and late-game - right around when you can get your hands on Argwes Adra. I had my Wizard wear Wael's Eyes the entire current run, and I am very satisfied. I tend to look for defensive or anti-CC enchantments, and Wael's Eyes happen to have two of such enchantments, I totally agree with you. Defensive True, but we are all human, and sometimes we forget to cast stuff in a timely fashion. And it's a lot of micro-management, too (not to mention that I don't think you can in fact cast everything in a timely fashion from one Priest). And it's even better if you combine Blaidh Golan with Little Savior! Agree. When I started the game, I took Unbroken on all my Fighters and wore Second Chance armor on the rest. Now I do neither.

This advice is so golden: I am having a stupendously successful PotD run where my entire front-line is a "hybrid" that could do both damage and tank (honestly, all 4 melees - even the Priest - could easily tank any of the Dragons). Likewise, none of my back-line DPS is squishy either - one being a Borresaine Fighter and the other being a Moon God-like Wizard with Arcane Veil. Just powering through the content with minimal micro-management - and handled both Concelhaut and Llengrath with ridiculous ease, even though this is the first time I faced either (I skipped both in my Normal run). Full report on my experience when I am done. I finally found a group I liked and stuck with, and it was a power-house. In both the Concelhaut and the Llengrath fights, nobody even went below 75 percent Endurance. My only knockout was when I lost both the Borresaine Fighter and the Chanter when I dropped down the spider passageway to grab Cladhaliath, and the spiders swarmed and a trap went off at the same time - and I had no time to do anything (This was the first time I went there, so I had no idea what to expect.) Otherwise, this could have easily been a no knockout run.

I agree Boerer is awesome! I do not know how up-to-date it is, but there is a PoE attack speed calculator here: https://naijaro.github.io/poe-speed-calculator/ On the basis of what that shows me, you will see how inefficient 2H builds are in fact - and the more so if you rely on-crit weapons the way I do. Sure you can go obscenely high Dexterity, go naked, etc., but there is so much opportunity cost involved there. Apprentice's Sneak Attack is so nice; I take it on all my DPS and quasi-DPS characters.

I am not a fan; it requires you to employ a low Deflection/Defense character, and I do not like doing that. I am currently running a PotD team with 1 Outworn Buckler, and 2 Little Saviors, and the 4 front-liners can hit around 200 Deflection or over for boss fights. I found that Swaddling Sheet just takes space in such occasions.

I totally agree. Why not just duplicate Little Savior and give +10 to everyone - which is what I am doing on my current PotD run?

I am simply terrified of being mind controlled - so I always have that Will and Fortitude Phrase up all the time

I think these were the issues that made me a bit disappointed with the Cipher when I first used him. (But perhaps I went in with unrealistic expectations, because people sang his praises constantly.) Maybe I'd feel differently if I used the non-CC spells on Cipher, but I don't want to try again. It was a bit too much micro all around - especially when I always have 2 other micro-heavy classes (Priest and Wizard).

Too much micro - don't ever forget I am a lazy, old man! I considered implements, but I think I will go with Borresaine, as my purpose is CC as much as DPS, and Borresaine is available very early. And yes, I am considering Take the Hit. I will still have Wizard's mind control stuff and Munacra on someone just in case though. But I will see how things play out. I am only at level 4, just done with Maerwald and a bit of Raderic's Hold for cash. So far the damage numbers I see on the Fighter v. ranged Rogue does not look all that different, but fights seem a bit longer. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that the ranged Fighter does not contribute any CC (and won't until Borresaine and Wounding Shot). On the flip-side, he himself is rarely in danger of getting knocked out, even though he draws a lot of fire!

Agreed. At any rate, I don't think I will give my Wizard the Gyrd any more. Blast means more Dominates, and I like the Priest bound spell better, too.

Hmmm, but once they revert to normal status, they lose Charmed status and still keep the buffs though. This is what happened when I nearly wiped on Maerwald. Of course, I would have focused him earlier if I knew all this...

I generally think this is a good set-up, except I still like a mid-line Tall Grass as a 3rd melee to pick up the leaks. Though I run 2 tanks early-/mid-game and see how it is very effective, I don't think I can run it the whole game out of boredom. I like my Fighters and Paladins to be "hybrids" who will take a more offensive approach once they gear up and level up. Finally, I don't like the Chanter tanking on PotD. He's a bit too squishy and the effort to toughen him up leads to the dilution of his Dragon Thrashed potential. That's why I have him as a Tall Grass mid-liner.

Practically, that's not "constantly", but occasionally. I'm an old man too, so I prefer to play strategically rather than use micro a lot ... So, my pally and barb cast protective scrolls. My chanter and cipher concentrate on CC-ing scrolls - actually, the most useful is the Paralyze scroll. Even if you run a wizard, just spam paralyze scrolls instead of spamming paralyze spells and keep theese spell slots. Finally, my priest casts damaging scrolls. Among protective scrolls, a very useful is the "Prayer against treachery" one, it requires 12 Lore and grants immunity to Dominate and Confusion. That's the reason to have at least one char with 12 Lore in your team alongside with a priest. Usually, that's my main char who has 12 Lore, this also helps in dialogs. And what reason is in using the Dragon Thrashed? After the nerf? IMO, 13 pierce/13 fire dmg with 20 Mig, considering this is before DR, is rather underwhelming. I didn't do exact math, but I feel that If your party does considering damage, Aefyllath is much better, unless you fight some fire immunes. Especially if you run a ranged rogue, then Sure-Handed Ila+Aefyllath would be great. IDK whether Aefyllath's damage boosts the cipher's focus generation, but an Amplified Wave or a Sacred Immolation buffed by a chanter are quite devastating. Not to mention barbarian's carnage attacks with Tidefall... When I said "constantly," I was actually referring to those folks who in fact switch constantly between ranged and melee weapon sets in literally every encounter. But your mode is indeed more occasional, so I will definitely try. As for pushing to Lore 12 to get the Prayer against Treachery scroll usage, Lore 12 is really hard to get. And there are no really good Lore gear I know except maybe the Dexterity slippers in WM 2? I don't know if the trade-offs make sense. Finally, on Dragon Thrashed, I think you need to download MaxQuest's mod that registers DoT damage to viscerally understand just how much damage it adds in PotD. Or look at the numbers we have both charted. Here's a small vignette, and this is while not running Dragon Thrashed all the time but mixing it with a utility Phrase. This damage accumulated just from level 9 to 10: Pre-level 9: Paladin MC (1st line/main tank) (Shame & Glory/Outworn Buckler): 22,511 Fighter (1st line/off-tank) (Shatterstar & Sura's Supper Plate): 32,561 Chanter (2nd line/DPS) (Tall Grass) 28,143 Rogue (3rd line/DPS/CC?) (Borresaine) 34,978 Wizard (3rd line/DPS/CC) (Gyrd) 33,320 Priest (3rd line/buff/DPS) (Grudge Keeper) 15,983 Pre-level 10: Paladin (1st line/DPS) (Tidefall): 33,485 Fighter (1st line/DPS) (Shatterstar/Hearth Harvest): 43,631 Chanter (2nd line/DPS) (Tall Grass) 56,880 Rogue (3rd line/DPS/CC?) (Borresaine) 41,581 Wizard (3rd line/DPS/CC) (Gyrd) 42,291 Priest (3rd line/buff/DPS) (Grudge Keeper) 19,915

Weren't you talking about Zealous Endurance's conversion of hits to grazes, so you take less damage? I meant I didn't realize the impact of this until it worked against me via formerly mind controlled enemies

Really? I didn't realize Dragon Thrashed can stack with itself - when chanted by one Chanter only. I thought only Dragon Thrashed from multiple Chanters stacked. I have no idea why I thought this. Still, I like a more balanced approach so I will likely continue to alternate Phrases.

I think at level 16, you can ran both if I recall. I believe that's how I ran the last dual Chanter group, but I will have to check again once I hit level 16.

That's not an issue, just give your melee guys (at least two of them) a ranged weapon in the second slot. For example, my fighter wields dual sabres in the first slot and a pistol in the second. In case of congestion, just switch to ranged, retreat if needed, and shoot the enemy. Not too much micro. BTW I have dedicated ranged weapons enchanted for slaying Primordials for all my melees, 'cause those nasty mushrooms are really nasty, and the best way to kill them is to shoot one by one. Yes, that's an issue a bit. That's why I bother about wizard. But it's a matter of playstyle. This party is designed for being able to rapidly buff themselves (with priest spells, scrolls and consumables), withstand enemy's pressure and dish out a ton of damage quickly. So in tough battles use scrolls of defense, of protection, "prayer against" scrolls and spells. I train in Lore all characters except fighter, so pally, barb and late in game chanter can buff the party while enemy's approaching. Then the cipher opens the battle with "Phantom Foes" cast, and this makes a whole screen of enemies flanked. Assuming survival bonus which I use on my three damage dealers by default, "Apprentice sneak attack" talent and Glanfanthan Stalking Boots on fighter and cipher, this means x1.35-x.1.45 damage boost against bad guys from the dedicated damage dealers. That's a great debuff with no immunity.... About paladin's aura. Early on, low accuracy is an issue, so I recommend starting up with Zealous Focus. Later, high enemy's damage and subsequent harm to health become an issue (the party usually has enough healing to sustain even fragile chars in battle). So at lv 8 I usually take Gallant's Focus with my chanter and respec the pally into Zealous Endurance. This aura helps a lot, especially with its hit->graze conversion, that's not only direct damage, but also debuffs. Actually, constantly switching between a melee weapon set and a ranged weapon set would be too much micro-management for me. You are talking to an extremely lazy old man here! But I do like the emergency Spore-busting ranged weapon set suggestion. I hate those Spores with a passion myself, and I am terrified every time I have to go through Cliaban Rilag myself, so I end up stalling before I finish Act II all the time. So I will start packing a ranged weapon set on my melees just for these rare occasions. Yes, I realize that having lots of CC scroll users can to some extent obsolete the need for a Wizard. I was going to begin to run multiple scroll users myself in future playthroughs per MaxQuest's suggestion. But at this point I still do not think I can get rid of the Wizard, even if I run multiple scroll users. I will experiment and see. Agreed on Paladin's aura too. The debuff conversion for ZE is not brought up enough. Oh, I know how useful Zealous Endurance is, dude. I've had to deal with full two Acts worth of formerly mind-controlled enemies who retained my auras and buffs even when they reverted!

I recall someone did calculation and said that Dragon Thrashed should add more overall DPS for you than Aefyllath. But I am not a math guy, and my memory is hazy, too. Also, the above set-up requires that you use Scion of Flame - or at least fire lash - on every character, and I like to diversify a bit.

Yes, we are looking for different things here. I don't mind if the ranged Fighter under-performs a bit DPS-wise And yes, Runner's Wounding Shot will be one of the first things I will take - otherwise I'd have no ranged CC other than Borresaine!

Yes, I will likely try a ranged Fighter for the 3rd ranged spot, and if he fails, I'd have to consider adding a 3rd caster (in addition to the Priest and the Wizard). I have not liked either ranged Rogue or Ranger when I tried them, but I still want a ranged auto-attacker (so I don't over-micro), so trying ranged Fighter first likely. As Boer said Ranged Fighter is pretty crappy. The least micro ranged guy that can be good is a Chanter. And hes got that chant that speeds up firing and reloading. I tested a ranged Chanter, per my reply to Draego, and it was not up to par. I couldn't really use Dragon Thrashed - and a lot of Phrases and Invocations - and the Chanter doesn't really have much to boost damage either beside the speed buff.