Lampros

Yes, I will likely try a ranged Fighter for the 3rd ranged spot, and if he fails, I'd have to consider adding a 3rd caster (in addition to the Priest and the Wizard). I have not liked either ranged Rogue or Ranger when I tried them, but I still want a ranged auto-attacker (so I don't over-micro), so trying ranged Fighter first likely. Sorry about the ranger. But what about ranged Chanter. That is probably the least micro you can get. And you can still give them Stormcaller a great ranged auto attack weapons. And Boeroer seems to argue fighters are not great ranged. I tested the ranged Chanter, and I did not like him either. The issue was that a ranged Chanter sits so far back that he couldn't utilize Dragon Thrashed much. And the same issue existed for other Phrases and Invocations as well. And frankly, if I am not bringing a Chanter for Dragon Thrashed, I am not bringing him at all. I know Boerer and other veterans think a ranged Fighter is a poor choice, but it also depends on what you are looking for in a class slot. I am not looking for max DPS archer - and I am not even looking for a ranged Fighter build that comes close to a ranged Rogue or Ranger DPS. I just want him to do enough to be not a totally useless damage-wise; and he will be almost micro-free. And he will also provide something that a ranged Rogue cannot provide: Some aggro transference via Into the Fray so I can take the heat off the truly fragile back-liners. Finally, I do think that Boerer and others may under-estimate how much functional DPS a Fighter can do in practice.

Ah, going full DPS mode from level 1 does make some difference as opposed to going full tanking till level 13. Also, there is a matter of how fast your fights end. For instance, every fight seemed like watching Mayweather v. Pacquaio the last PotD run for me!

Ah, I even forgot about Merciless Gaze! I think I am going to try both Pale Shades and Golden Gaze and not decide on which weapon to Durganize until I test both thoroughly to my satisfaction.

Indeed. Hence, I am excited to try it out - and at some point I figure I will find a PotD group I enjoy and finish the damn game with!

Sundering Blow is melee-only? Darn, that not stated in the skill description (though the Wiki might be out-dated). But I think 25 percent damage add plus Confident Aim (how much does that add - approximately 10 percent?) plus higher Accuracy via Disciplined Barrage will be sufficient for my auto-attack archer needs. And I can make him sort of a hybrid who sometimes switches to melee when things start mobbing my really weak fragile classes - whereas the Rogue could only escape himself, rather than save others. I am going to test him now and see how he compares to the ranged Rogue for the first half or the first quarter of the game - hopefully, the build isn't a dud to the point where I quit before I quit the ranged Rogue on PotD (at level 10). Edit: I realize you can make a Rogue sturdier, but then you'd also dilute the Rogue's DPS or CC ability, too, though. At any rate, let me test. This is one case where I think some of you veterans may underestimate the utility of a Ranged Fighter (Also, it may fit my play-style better - which is not a small consideration, as I generally dislike fragile builds or micro-heavy builds.)

Yes, I will likely try a ranged Fighter for the 3rd ranged spot, and if he fails, I'd have to consider adding a 3rd caster (in addition to the Priest and the Wizard). I have not liked either ranged Rogue or Ranger when I tried them, but I still want a ranged auto-attacker (so I don't over-micro), so trying ranged Fighter first likely.

What's the math on a DW Hammer Fighter? This last run I had Eder with that set up and he destroyed my Paladin even after Sacred Immolation. I couldn't catch him. 191K total damage. Charge is a game changer. I know it's got nothing to do with duel wielding lol This is kinda hard to believe - unless the Paladin was a pure tank. I am going to run a full-game test on PotD very soon - as soon as I decide upon the last member (likely either ranged Fighter or ranged Rogue)/

While it is true that casters do have a lot of ways to keep enemies afflicted, I'm also noticing that if you're constantly having casters only pay attention to casting afflicting spells to support a rogue's sneak attacks, it seems that they're losing out on casting more damaging spells. So in the end, is your party more effective or more efficient by having the casters supporting a Rogue, or by having those casters doing what they'd normally do if there wasn't a rogue that needed some "affliction support"? I was thinking the same; I think I am going to try out the ranged Fighter now. I want an auto-attack archer, and I failed with the Rogue for a variety of (some unknown) reasons; and I don't want to play a Ranger due to the pet.

Do Knockdowns work with ranged weapons? That would be an important factor as well.

After using a Ranger a bit more as a test this afternoon, I really do not like having a pet - it gets in the way so often. I know a lot of this is a personal idiosyncrasy, but I also like 2/2/2 formation, and the pet gets in the way of that as well. So I think I may actually try the ranged Rogue for 1 more time. Maybe I should great increase its Perception to ensure more crits - or increase its Might to ensure higher damage per hit. I really want an auto-attack archer who is not going to be micro-heavy, as I have my hands full with the Priest and the Wizard already. Maybe even a Fighter could work for this Borresaine archer slot, since he's going to have lots of accuracy.

Oh, by the way, does Vulnerable Attack apply to Bash as well? I don't even use the Larder or the Azurro shield, but I may if it does?

I see. The last game I had really trouble breaking enemy DR down and fights tended to be longer. But this may be because I spammed mind control even more than usual, and I had Zealous Endurance running - so I was hitting a lot of enemies with +3 once Gyrd came to the scene. I will have to see if I have the same issues this time without using so much mind control.

Unless they changed something, charge doesn't use weapons. It works like a spell and always does crush, even if you are holding a bow or spear. When I did my glass Tsunami build, charge only did a single crush attack to each enemy in the charge path (I had duel weapons). The base damage for charge is very high, and when combined with high Might, it does a lot of damage and is very much worth it. You will use it all the time because it is twice per encounter. Sadly it is worthless against enemies immune to crush (one of the toughest boss enemy is). For war hammers, there is a really good one called "Strike Hard" that can be bought later in the game. Arguably one of the best weapons in the game because it can dramatically increase your attack speed with the right combination of gear and helps accuracy. Also, being a soldier weapon, weapon focus/master/specialization will also carry over to the most damaging ranged weapons, in case you like to start off with a gunshot. Regardless of your build, I think high Might and high Intellect are most important. All the core fighter abilities benefit a grest deal from both, unless you only pick passives. The two best ones you can't avoid taking and help a great deal throughout the game: knockdown and constant recovery. Without high int your (up to 4) knockdowns per encounter won't last nearly as long and constant recovery will expire long before the battle ends. You really need those two abilities to compensate for your lower defenses and it is a waste to nerf them so badly with minimized intelligence. I think it is better to lower perception, con, and resolve, which have minimal impact on your build. You don't need to completely tank them, but around 8 is just fine. With the right (easy to obtain) gear to compensate, you could completely minimize any of those 3 stats without any really noticeable harm. I have done so solo and with a party, they are even less needed. For modals, don't bother with the fighter ones. However, "vulnerable attack" is very good for duel-wielders. Late game you can consider adding savage attack. I consider that one optional and a low priority. Vulnerable Attack is well worth the speed penalty and is particularly noticable early on so I recommend it as one of your first two talents. Is Vulnerable Attack good on 2H builds, too? Also, how about its use for non-Fighters - e.g. Paladins?

Maybe I should run two Wizards? I can't believe I am thinking about this! I am just trying to get more CC in there that is not mind control, as the last aborted playthrough made me leery of mind controlled mobs retaining MY buffs! So at least I am sure I will use the Gyrd on the Priest now, because I now want to limit random Dominate procs.

Well... you:- either build a sturdy party, use buffs, kill everyone over time, and do not charm/dominate (except in emergency) - or instead of focusing on buffing, build a high cc / high dps team => paralyze immediate targets while charming nasty stuff and in a way use them as your figurines. On hard it would work. On upscaled PotD, not so much. You will be able to reach decent (like 40-60%) crit rate only after durganizing your weapons. Not to mention that I was often attacking enemies with already debuffed defenses... Yes, those seem like the alternatives indeed: Fast DPS plus CC set-up or slower DPS but sturdier and no CC set-up. The latter requires less micro and presumably less heart attack scenarios (I am old, so this matters, LOL!), but then I was getting annoyed with how long the fights were taking as well. Hmm, and I probably can't get Durgan weapons on PotD until like level 12, given my current skill level. This is hard!

That's exactly why I don't use the sceptre for the dominate proc. it's harder to target enemies when there charmed and you have to adijust around them if you want to make them most out of it. It's not needed and Is just a nuisance And now on PotD I have discovered an even bigger problem: The enemies keep my buffs when they revert. And since I run buff heavy parties, this is more than a nuisance - it's fatal at times

Would this be viable build? That is, viable as in crit often enough to be a reasonably reliable CC tool? And if yes, how do I get there in terms of the necessary Abilities/Talents? (I guess maxing Perception and spamming Eldritch Aim in the beginning of every fight is a start, but beyond that?) Also, relatedly, is Golden Gaze a decent weapon on a Priest - if I am not going to use it on a Wizard?

Would this be the case for a ranged Rogue as well? I would not consider a Rogue unless he were Ranged. (I guess I would consider a Tall Grass melee Rogue, but then I see Barbarian superior with a Tall Grass - if I am not using a Tall Grass Chanter for some reason.) Thanks. I have a much better picture now.

Mental Binding their frontliners I intend to kill.Whisper of Treason their nasties (especially druids). Plus wizard's Slicken, Shadowflame and Confusion. I didn't have issues at easier difficulties, but it became insane on PotD when I was running 2 Paladins, a buffing Chanter, and a buffing Priest. I nearly wiped in Maerwald, did wipe to Gathbin's hirelings (of all people!), and every fight seemed take 50 percent longer, because enemies kept also kept gazillion buffs I was using. Boerer suggested Arcane Dampener to debuff them back to pre-mind control status quo, but I am also looking into ways of not using Wizard's mind control CC as well (and not using the Gyrd on the Wizard). As for your suggestions, unfortunately I do not use Ciphers and the Wizard's Confusion brings us back to the same problem. Would rushing the Rod of Pale Shades on the Wizard plus Borresaine archer combined work? It's still too RNG dependent, I guess. If I were to make a Rod of Pale Shades Wizard build and try to increase crits, then what is the best way to go about it besides the usual high Accuracy approach?

I am having serious issues with mind controlled enemies keeping my buffs. I was planning on trying out the Wizard's Arcane Dampener, but I cannot imagine not using mind control CC at all. What forms of CC do you employ? Most of them - at least mid/early-game - are not FoE-only, so there are not a lot to pick from, I think?

Are elemental damaging boosting talents like Scion of Flame worth it, even just to combine with corresponding lashes - and if you do not have a specialized class builds that take advantage of them? For instance, are they worth it on just a normal melee Fighter or ranged Rogue?

Chanter is freaking awesome. What if you had TWO Chanters? Would it be better to have both of them singing Dragon Thrashed, or better to have one sing Dragon Thrashed while the other sang something else? I dont like 2 characters having the same role. My next character.. i can't decide whether it should be a barbarian or a monk? I saw most of the abilities are only 1/encounter. Hmm still wondering why people like them so much. Yes, for immersion purpose, I empathize. But certain "duo" class set ups are powerful and micro-light (e.g. two Chanters or two Paladins), so newbs like me tend to rely on them at least for now.

My sentiments exactly! I'd given up on the game long time ago but for him! By the way, is Prestidigitator's Missiles really worth it? I really do not like taking too many 1/per encounter skills. I do take Runner's Wounding Shot on many characters, because that's damage plus CC - and I love CC spamming - but Prestidigitator's Missiles is just pure damage. Of course, I guess it depends on how much damage...

I like this set-up, and I like parties without a lot of micro as well. There are two concerns for me here though. In my experience, having 3-4 melees causes congestion, and you need to micro them to ensure they don't run into each other and idle. This for me is a huge annoyance - though it does not seem to be for most folks. At any rate, to avoid the congestion problem, I always give the 3rd and 4th (if I run 4 melees) melees reach weapons. Second, you don't have much in the way of instant CC; so I would miss a Wizard a lot.

Chanter is freaking awesome. What if you had TWO Chanters? Would it be better to have both of them singing Dragon Thrashed, or better to have one sing Dragon Thrashed while the other sang something else? Two Dragon Thrashed is really awesome