Lampros

Oh, wait; this build seems to require no - or little - Wound expenditure? So I don't necessarily have to pick Helwalker?

Well, I am going to run a Trickster/Unbroken Riposte/disengagement attack spam build now with: a) a Holy Slayer dual wield DPS (he's named Karl Franz, so a warhammer on the main and sword on the other); b) either a dual pistol or dual blunderbuss FoD spam Paladin/Chanter per Boerer's suggestion as support; c) a straightforward Dwarf Devoted/Ranger to best utilize Aamina's Legacy (although all I get is 5 percent more chance to stun or paralyze or something, no?); d) a Holy Grenadier (Paladin/Rogue) blunderbuss CC. We shall see how it goes!

Isn't their a fear helm that a Vithrack merchant drops? I was thinking about using it for this build.

Thanks for the very cogent explanation. I think I understand the difference much better now. So in terms of ranged weapon that do both AoE damage and CC, blunderbusses and Frostseekers are the primary options - especially given the nerf to Blast? Anything else? Edit: Which dummies do you mean? For easy testing, I try either on my own tanks or the Vampyre Crypt island top left.

I would think from level 1-20 in a group setting would be the criteria? But this is subject to debate.

You can; I just auto-assumed multi-classes are almost always better

It's simple - the chanter can add 15% lash damage and a 40% reload reduction on top of other buffs (through invocations). Thus a chanter/rogue with the Red Hand will easily outdamage anything but a Helwalker/Rogue using the Red Hand. (And of course I'm talking about sustainable single target damage, because I'm sure some people using blunderbusses and spells/scrolls will disagree) Ah, ok. But both Phrases and Invocations help the whole party, and I tend to run a Chanter support anyways. So in this scenario where everyone gets Chanter support, the Chanter ranged DPS won't be doing more damage than pure ranged DPS. Still, it may be a good idea to combine Chanter support and ranged DPS to economize.

How does Frostseeker compare to dual blunderbusses in terms of AoE damage/CC potential?

True, this will require a bit more imagination than most replays, but the idea is to form a thematic party rather than pure RP. Frankly, for me custom companions actually promote role-play, because I can name them after characters and universes with which I am intimately familiar. That's why I named all my custom characters after Lord of the Rings characters in PoE 1 - and I will name all my custom characters after Warhammer Fantasy characters in PoE 2.

Happily, there is now a place you can reliably buy them: one of the merchants in the crucible (in the SSS DLC) sells them. Ah, excellent. I haven't done the SSS DLC yet. Can you go into the area, just buy stuff, and back out? Well, there is one tough-ish fight (which you can avoid with the right mix of skills/backgrounds/reputations), and a follow up skill/attribute challenge to get into the crucible itself. But those are the only obstacles. Thanks!

Addendum: I don't like to use Wikipedia as a final authority on anything except clear facts such as dates, but nonetheless it's a good starting point. And here's it's definition: "A common convention in real-time strategy games, role-playing games, fighting games, multiplayer online battle arenas and MUDs, tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor, healing by other party members, evasiveness and misdirection, or self regeneration." So it includes both viewpoints, but it seems to accord primacy to the "aggro holding" part.

Seems like my viewpoint is the mid-point of yours and Kaylon's

Completely depends on your build. The faster you generate focus, the more frequently you can cast Ancestor's Memory (or any cipher ability): Soul Whip generates focus at 50% of weapon damage (including weapon attack abilities) rounding down. I.E. If you graze for 7 damage, you generate 3 focus. Biting Whip increases weapon damage by 30%, and therefore 50% of that additional damage become focus. Draining Whip increases generated focus to 100% of weapon damage (including weapon attack abilities). So, the higher your weapon DPS, the higher your focus generation. Ancestor's Memory has a focus cost of 70, which means you need to deal 140 damage with an un-upgraded soul whip or 70 damage with draining whip to use it. (Biting whip would be somewhere in between). Probably the best way to do it is by using an Ascendant. They Have -1 Power Level normally (often literally 1 Red Hand shot!), but acquire focus at an additional 33%. When Ascendants hit max focus, they get unlimited focus (unlimited cipher abilities) and +3 Power Level for 15s +/- 5% for every point of Intellect above/below 10. That way you can spam it on anything. Edit: Certain AOE weapon effects also generate focus- which is why you see people using blunderbusses and rods. Thanks - very well-explained. And 70 damage is frankly not much; so it seems like you can use it quickly. I guess I should try the build then! ;0

I didn't understand the poison part either. And the combat logs were not clear either, when I tried to use them in-game.

Sounds good - except can the Arcane Knight grab and keep aggro? I agree with the need for permanent defenses, but shouldn't tanks have good aggro maintenance (in MMROPG-speak) and keep your friends from harm, too? So I tend to think the Swashbuckler Trickster/Unbending is best. Can you explain the Chanter/Rogue for ranged DPS? What set-up? Other selections in other categories chime in with my experience, too, when applicable. aggro in any way?

Happily, there is now a place you can reliably buy them: one of the merchants in the crucible (in the SSS DLC) sells them. Ah, excellent. I haven't done the SSS DLC yet. Can you go into the area, just buy stuff, and back out?

You are right; no bounce. Darn. I guess I have to complete Serafen's quest then...

Can you explain this a bit more, please?

How does Frostseeker compare with dual hand mortars in terms of AoE damage or CC potential if used by a Rogue multi-class character?

P.S. I think this will be my main crowd control/AoE build. I was able to get so many afflictions on so many folks!

I've been testing, and the Stove has a bounce that seems to hit a ton of targets with Driving Flight. For instance, one salvo hit 8 times for about 160 on the Vampyre Crypt Vampyres. But I guess Hand Mortars would be better if you can get to 30-plus Intelligence with Monk skills?

I was inspired by this post https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/105637-building-a-party-of-5-to-have-fun-in-potd/page-2 by 1TFFSSE, and I was wondering if we can come up with a similar consensus ranking of roles with the current patch, as his post is from June. Also, I'd ask for a slightly different criteria: 1. Best tanks: 2. Best melee DPS: 3. Best ranged DPS: 4. Best support:

Yes, this is true. I've ran the entire content with 4 DPS characters (albeit none of them glass cannon) and 1 support. But I am going to run with a tank now to see if that is more efficient and even less micro-needy!

Best tank in RPGs is usually defined first and foremost as the character that can prevent monsters from attacking the non-tank ("hold aggro" - in MMORPG parlance). Survivability is secondary - though not unimportant.

A really good list!