MaxQuest

Wounding and regular lashes both are calculated based on damage rolled before DR)

That ranged chanter caught my attention. How do you want to build him? Is the plan to quick-switch arquebuses (and help his party with Aefyllath and scrolls)?

Not sure about Body Attunement. Will have to test it. As for wizard, there is also synergy with Golden Gaze (since it also can proc Expose Vulnerabilities), plus Combusting Wounds. If only there was room for a chanter with Sure-Handed and Aefyllath...

My first run was on potd with: - frontline: eder (main tank) + kana (offtank, aefyllath + sure handed) - midline: pallegina (arbalest) - backline: sagani (stormcaller) + grieving mother (warbow, cc/dps) + warbow cipher (mc, dps) I didn't know the true power of vancian classes yet. (plus Durance was annoying, while Aloth was mostly wiping the floor. And Hiravias... I've stumbled so late upon him, that my party was already well formed.) In any case it turned out pretty well. The burst and alpha-strike were amazing. But with 4-5 melee requirements, it could be something like: - frontline: paladin (main tank), barbarian/monk (dw-dps, offtank, low-res, shod-in-faith, swaddling sheet), cipher (cc, botep) - midline: barbarian (tall grass, scrolls) - backline: cipher (warbow, 4 survival, 6-8 lore for scrolls), rogue (persistence or blunderbuss with dumped int)

^ Wounding DoT does stack completely. It also does benefit from might twice. And through it's a DoT smaller int is better.

Told ya I am biased toward ciphers) Paralyze/prone the focus fired targets and quickly bring them down, while charming the threats is my favorite playstyle. Followed only by chain Amplified Wave (and Shining Beacons if need be). P.S. Damn, I feel the temptation to try an MC rogue now... (dual Drawn-in-Spring or Blunderbuss). Covered by two ciphers, wizard and assisted by priest/paladin could result in an interesting run...

It's hard to balance rangers right. Due to their solitary nature they usually don't bring any buffs, cc or passives that make the party stronger. They are mostly designen around [ranger + pet] duo. Game designer can make this pair weaker than other average class; stronger; or being on par. But even if they are perfectly balanced dps wise, their versatility would still be questionable as they can't escape like rogues, can't save a teammate like a paladin, priest or any hard-cc class, and they don't have any ace in the sleeve for the boss fights. As for OP's question, I still believe that class power depends on game difficulty, resting frequency and the party composition built around that character. Assuming optimal use of the class/build, in my humble opinion classes could be placed in the following tiers: Pre-PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 8 fights) tier 1: cipher tier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter tier 3: rogue, monk, druid tier 4: priest, wizard (pure-caster) Pre-PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 4 fights) tier 1: cipher tier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter, rogue, monk, druid tier 3: priest, wizard (pure-caster) Pre-PotD difficulty (boss fights) tier S: priest tier 0: wizard, druid tier 1: cipher, fighter, paladin tier 2: barbarian, ranger, chanter, rogue, monk ---------------------------- PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 8 fights) tier 1: cipher tier 2: barbarian, paladin, wizard (blasting), monk tier 3: druid, fighter, ranger, chanter tier 4: priest, wizard (pure-caster), rogue PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 4 fights) tier 1: cipher tier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter, monk, druid tier 3: priest, wizard (pure-caster), rogue PotD difficulty (boss fights) tier S: priest tier 0: wizard, druid, cipher tier 1: paladin tier 2: barbarian, ranger, fighter, chanter, monk tier 3: rogue ---------------------------- Combining that all together, plus how many there are boss/hard fights vs easy/medium ones, I'd overall place classes in following tiers of power: (for PotD 6-man party), (taking into account their overall contribution over the whole play-through) tier 1.0: cipher, wizard tier 2.0: priest, druid tier 2.3: paladin, barbarian tier 3.0: chanter, ranger, monk tier 3.4: fighter tier 4.0: rogue

Congrats on first post) As for weapon choices, I concur with the St.Rumbalt as being a better choice. - Grey Sleeper is severely under-performing because it cannot be lashed, nor durganized. Also the proc chances are way to low to justify it's use on a fighter. It could be a weapon of choice for barbarian, but even then there are better alternatives; - The Temperacl is just the same sword as St.Rumbalt minus the anihilation property. So it's also a strictly worse option. - Tidefall is decent (if you have maxed might and avg-low int) due to wounding property. Draining is a pleasant bonus as well; not as great as on a barbarian, but still helps a bit with survivability, provided that fighter has decent hp pool. - Blade of the Endless Paths - is also a decent alternative. Marking will probably be of little use provided your party composition. But if you haven't reached zero-recovery yet, it's speed property will help you to do so. And since stacking attack speed is subject to increasing returns (until you reach 0-rec), that last extra mile might result in an up to 28% increase in dps.

Yeap, that's pretty much it. And am confirming his findings:

Did you mean Savage Attack and Reckless Assault (rogue's modal)? If so, they can be both activated at the same time. But yeah "+20% dmg" part will get suppressed, since that's the same status effect. Hmm, can't find it. Probably I could just learn all the modals via console, and see it in practice.

I haven't looked into code yet. But from my experience: - you can have active at the same time: one defensive, one aura, and multiple offensive modals. (e.g. Defender and Cautious Attack are mutually-exclusive; Savage Attack and Vulnerable Attack are not) - ranger's modals are going into aura category, even if they affect only ranger himself. (e.g. they are mutually exclusive with Gallant's focus and between themselves) - even if two modals are not mutually-exclusive, and can be active at the same time, it's still better to check if their effects are not suppressed. Because if they affect the same stat, only the highest will apply.

Technically you can. But there is no point in that, as the target will not get affected by both dots. For example you cast a 20s IoM which would result in 8 ticks. After 4s (or 2 ticks) you cast a 20s IoM again. This new instance of IoM will overwrite the previous one. In total you will get 10 ticks. On the other hand if the last instance would be a 10s graze it would not overwrite the previous one, as that had 16 more seconds until elapsing (i.e. it's duration is longer). The new instance will be ignored. And this will result in 8 total ticks. At the some time, DoTs like Shining Beacon do stack completely.

Strange. Iirc they worked with all damaging scrolls in v3.00. But they didn't work with Silverflash proc. Made a quick test: - deathblows don't work with DoT scrolls like Insect Swarm - deathblows don't work with Envenomed Strike - deathblows do work with Wounding (indirectly, because they increase the attack damage itself) - deathblows do work with Weapon procs (including Silverflash' Divine Mark) So either something was changed, or my memory fails me. As for Infestation of Maggots, I had few tests made in v3.01 against a spore:

Although this wasn't acknowledged as a bug, PowderBurns + WoundingShot/Envenom interaction was finally fixed (tested on v3.05). Thank you) But the problem with FoE (yellow) part of the PowderBurns cone still persists and it even evolved: - Before: party members standing in yellow zone did not receive powderBurns damage, while animal companion did. - Expected: neither party members, nor animal companion should receive damage from powderBurns, while standing in the yellow zone. - Now: everyone receives damage.

This attribute system is my favorite tbh. It has one big flaw: attributes aren't really that realistic. And it is a low blow from immersion point of view. But it makes up for this due to how deep this system turned out to be from optimization/powerbuilding perspective, with minimal score imbalance. P.S. J.Sawyer explains here why attributes are as they are. P.P.S. Anyone remembers the DA:2 attribute system? The abomination their curved gain was, plus weird and constantly shifting sweet points?

Yeap, tried a paladin with Coordinating Attacks and dual-wielding Shame-or-Glory, and the closest cipher was getting +30acc. As for double-spear looks... we need a troll race now)

Actually you are right. I remember that I charmed one, dominated the other and proceeded to kill Llengrath. But that dominate wasn't really that needed. Made a quick check: - coordinated attack stacks with marking weapon - coordinated attack from multiple paladins doesn't stack on the the same allied-member - marking weapons from different characters doesn't stack on the same allied-member - dual-wielding marking weapons stacks on the same allied-member - the target to receive +10 accuracy, is decided at the moment when paladin receives an 'attack order' on an enemy. The target (for the buff) is the closest party-member to paladin at that moment. If the paladin receives another type of order like: stop, move or cast some spell not on that target, the 10 bonus accuracy are lost. It's nice to know...) Yeah, charm is great. Treason is also cheap, so even if it missed it can be quickly recasted. And with it's debuff to defenses it's way easier to land a disintegration or any other hard-cc. I will consider using knockdown now too. Usually followed-up with Mental-Binding/Silent Scream or Gaze of Adragan before.

Antipathetic field is good, and is a must if you want to go to bear cave on level 2. Although I usually rush to the tavern to get the hirelings first, and prefer take on lvl 1: Whispers of Treason (because it's just awesome) and Soul Shock because it has one of the best dmg/focus coefficient and really easies some of early encounters. Ofc later I'd get Mind Wave and Eyestrike. But already by mid-game I'll mostly use only Whispers and sometimes Mind Wave out of these first level powers. Mostly because they are fast casts and my melee cipher is equipped in plate, so there is little reason to spend extra time on this casts, when they can be thrown by a ranged cipher in cloth armor. (thus aside from Whispers, finishing Thrust or emergency Mental Binding and Wave, melee cipher mostly uses higher-costed 30f+ accessible powers, to minimize time spent on casting) But with your spread, taking all cc-related powers is just perfect. You will likely use: Whispers, Mind Wave, Mental Binding, Silent Scream and Amplified Wave a great tonne. (I haven't listed Puppet Master, because Whispers superseeds it, but this power is still a must vs dragons immune to charm. There go also Tactical Meld and Borrowed Instinct, as they are used mostly in boss fights.) P.S. Khm, intended to edit/append to the previous post, not create a new one.

Thanks for pointing out. I have updated my previous post. It could indeed be decent. Since stacking attack speed items and properties suffers of increasing returns (until you hit 0-recovery), going for DR-penetration route could be a viable alternative, until you can start critting really often, or can get the [DW+TWF+SwiftActionGloves/Durgan Enchants] or the affore-mentiontioned BotEP + Gloves/Enchants. Enemy DR list for reference.

Taking minor advantages here and there is great! In games like these, small optimizations here and there, when combined can spiral and snowball out of control (more so in Tyranny through as it's less balanced; but even in PoE we have a large field for activity as it's mechanics are way more deep). I actually remember Boeroer mentioning Tidefall + Merciless Companions synergy a few months ago, regarding giving it to barbarian, and letting the pet enjoy dealing increased damage to anyone in the area. Also it is used in his Riptide ranger build. Just like you added in the edit part, it stacks additively with other damage modifiers: dmgValues = [11, 16] * dmgCoefficient dmgCoefficient (onHit) = (1 + mightBonus + weaponQualityBonus + soulWhipBonus + bittingWhipBonus + weaponTypeBonus + savageAttackBonus + damageTypeBonus) dmgCoefficient (onCrit) = dmgCoefficient (onHit) + critBonus (0.5) + annihilationBonus (0.5) + mercilessBonus (0.3) Where damageTypeBonus = 0.2 for Bittercut when Spirit of Decay is taken; or 0 otherwise For a cipher companion with 20 might and superb Bittercut that would be: dmgValues preNerf_ (onHit) = [13, 19] * (1 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = [13, 19] * 2.55 = [33.15, 48.45] dmgValues postNerf (onHit) = [11, 16] * (1 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = [11, 16] * 2.75 = [30.25, 44] (a ~10% postNerf loss) And the lash stacks multiplicatively. But it's a bit more complicated, due to the enemy DR: dmgRolled = random(dmgValuesMin, dmgValuesMax) finalDmg = weaponDmgPart + lashDmgPart Where weaponDmgPart = max(dmgRolled - DR, dmgRolled * 0.2) // 20% will always go through DR And lashDmgPart is calculated in the following manner: // it also can get completely cancelled by high DR, source tests lashDmgPart (corrode, no spiritOfDecay) = max(lashBonus * dmgRolled - 0.25 * DR, 0) = 0.25 * max(dmgRolled - DR, 0) lashDmgPart (corrode, with spiritOfDecay) = max((1 + spiritOfDecayBonus) * lashBonus * dmgRolled - 0.2 * DR, 0) = 0.3 * max(dmgRolled - DR, 0) Also, tests have shown that: - SpiritOfDecay still increases weaponDamage of Bittercut (v3.05) - SpiritOfDecay still increases weaponDamage of Bittercut even if it is dealing slash damage due to enemie's high corrode DR - Corrode lash get's additional benefit when applied to Bittercut (in comparisson to other sabres). Not only the lash is increased in the end by the talent modifier, but it also indeed does benefit from weapon's increased dmgCoefficient Also, for reference, decided to compute dmgValues for a companion that would have 10 Might, instead of 20: dmgValues preNerf_ (onHit) = [13, 19] * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = [13, 19] * 2.25 = [29.25, 42.75] (a ~13% dps loss in cmp to 20 mig) dmgValues postNerf (onHit) = [11, 16] * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = [11, 16] * 2.45 = [26.95, 39.2] (a ~12% dps loss in cmp to 20 mig) So if you are stacking lots of modifiers, 10->20 might will provide a ~12% auto-attacking dps increase vs 0 DR enemies. Although high might is still important if you will use a lot of damaging powers or attack high DR targets.

Hmm, yes. But to avoid the emerging issue with low health, it's optimal to let Shod-in-Faith and Silver Tide deal with gradual endurance loss due to enemy AoE or some low-hitting mobs, and to preemptively cc the bigger threats. Yes, yes, I know,.. I am guilty of this. Of preemptiveness. You are right. Preferred playstyle and the way you approach signature fights, highly affects equipment selection and stat spreads. I never even casted Wild Leech, and probably used Psychovampiric Shield 2-3 times top. Mostly relying on hard-cc for survival, plus high-dps to make fights shorter and get more value from the aforementioned cc. Hmm, maybe not. It's just an urge to over-optimize things; followed by a personal preference in giving (sometimes over-)extended responses/replies. P.S. I am not forcing either. As usual one listens to all opinions, but decides what to do himself.

Nope. PotD: increases enemy accuracy and defenses by 15; it increases their endurance by 25%; adds more enemies, and substitutes some of them with a more powerful version (e.g. ooze -> greater ooze) Upscaled content: increases enemy level by 3 (this indirectly results in +9 acc/defenses), and additionally iirc it adds +2 to their stats.

Tidefall is a great weapon. But in terms of focus generation Blade of the Endless Paths is still the best 2H option (for cipher), due to the following reasons: - 5 extra DR penetration will increase your average dps by ~10-20%. (yeah Great Swords have dual damage type, but there is only one single non-boss enemy type that has pierce DR higher than it's slash DR by a value of 5, specifically Rain Blight; as for bosses it's Adra Dragon and Turisulfus, but cipher is not going to come close to them; he will hit and use as focus batteries their minions instead) - botep has speed enchant, it allows achieving 0-recovery so much easier, and that last extra mile has great increasing returns. Especially if you are going to wear plate armor. Also there is a thing to say about Tidefall's lash. As Boeroer already mentioned: it doesn't generate focus. Also it's best used on a character with maxed Might. Because it scales twice with it. First it takes 25% from your weapon hit (modified by might). And then, being a DoT it get's increased by Might again.

The first things coming on mind are cipher with carnage and barbarian with chants. But I guess getting multiple class signature stuff won't be allowed? If so than a cipher with golden gaze and just enough wizard levels for blast and penetrating blast for the uber focus gain.

It would. That's why you don't let your melee cipher get hit too much. And give Shod-in-Faith to other frontliner, with maxed Mig, Int, low-deflection and high health pool. Usually it's a monk or barbarian. On a side note, Wound Binding is increased by Might and is usable in combat) Moon godlike, shod-in-faith'ed barb/monk with high Mig/Con/Int can just stand and stand and stand alive.