theBalthazar

Why not stay on the logical. Barbarian + Fighter + Paladin = Access to Two handed fighting style +15 % damage. (If really Obsidian don't want of general pool... An extension is necessary...) AND Combine a double option. +15 % in barbarian. +15 % in a fighter = 30 % with the duo in multiclass ! Single class side : A BIG bonus for empower, like +2 level (compared to now and compared to multiclass mostly). A specialization is not a hollow concept. More choice, even more choice. More Combo possible ! It is the road of pleasure for Build a character. Barbarian is already not the best class. Think to a single class... Barbarian don't have much more option than POE1... ------- Exemple : We are on FIRE EMBLEM. A basic exemple. A swordmaster, specialist of his art have a BONUS for his specialisation (+20 % critical). He handles a single type of weapon with counterpart of master his sword. Here, there is a very limited counterpart. For me, when a single class empower, he gives everything and do amazing damage. If not : why single class ? It is a powerful specialisation...

Breck > It is true concerning the context of the beta. Indeed. Low level and little evolution of experience. But when we think about it. If the high level spells are like POE1... There is less spells, and the most were useless. MORE, if the delay is big for these spells ! like 12 seconds for a fire storm (exemple) It is truly possible, because more powerful = more charge in a certain point of view. And for empower, there is just less points, but it is not a real problem. Single class looks really, really bad...

So empower is +1 level of spells actually ? Perhaps add an additionnal level like +2. To feel the massive attack more strongly ? Perhaps increase the effect. Most people complain about the feel of Empower effect. So stay like actually with multiclass or eventually add +1 level of power of empower effect. and add a +2 or even a +3 level for single class !

Let's go for your expert in balancing systems. : p Pro ++System of Rest + endurance without Health. WHY ? I did not like buy campfire 2 by 2. Use Food is an excellente idea. +Fast/Better loading (Subject to view the full game at the *end* of the game. POE1 had longer loading in this situation. Here it is a new save and a beta...) WHY ? Obvious. ++Multiclass WHY ? I like build. More possibilities is always nice. +Modals of weapons (even if... I would have prefered Weapon modal + Talent modal, but it is a another debate. More is always better than less fo me) WHY ? Because it is work in game. customize a specific fonction with weapons is a good idea. +Stealth system+Pause when stealth. WHY ? The system is globally better in all points. +Design/Style/Approach of dialog system. WHY ? Work for me. Great job ! +Retarget fonction. WHY ? Simple and excellent idea. -------------------------------------- Intermediate : +/- Exploration on map WHY ? The -feeling- of exploration is better. It is a fact. Move yourself is a good thing. but... I'm afraid that phase of gameplay become... Boring ? You know : move a thumbail on a map. Yes you take several ressources, but BE CAREFUL... This could be... Boring eventually. Things must happen to brighten up the gameplay. +/- Empower. WHY ? The concept is great for me. I love it. But... it is like drink away in the combat, with a lot of fail. I don't think its is enough "impressive" ? Or if the player have not enough try (number of empower in each battle ?) +/- Subclasses. WHY ? I like the idea of subclasses. There is no "fault". BUT I think personnally, we could have made more... attractive ? For exemple, I read description of three subclasses of the barbarian. "Mouai..." like we said in french. And I take a classic barbarian with no subclass. So... I think it is maybe too much... "particular" ? It is a problem if 90 % of players never take a single subclass because of that. --------------------------------------- Con: - New penetration mechanic. WHY ? I dislike the concept of "All or nothing" of this choice. I prefer the system of POE1 (gradual + Simply Subtractive) - Locked Talents. WHY ? In fact, you lock several talents to class : You remove possibilities to players. Single classes are disavantaged. RP speaking, why my barbarian must be a fighter for 15 % damage for two hand handling ? In this situation, I must multiclass for this, for that -simple- combo. Too much constraint for something that does not make sense. - "Miss". WHY ? Feeling to miss too much attacks on difficult battle. (Grazes?...^^...) - No Slow mode WHY ? I don't find the slow mode. If it is a choice, I dislike. In this kind of game, the player must can understand slowy. A move... but slow move. (not pause, it is different). - System a injury. WHY ? Amount too big. 25 % is too much. 20 % ? 15 % ? 15 x 3 = 45 so 55 % of healh remaining + All the malus is WIDELY sufficient... - Absolute nerf of casters. WHY ? Casting time too long + general nerf + Miss often... Strategically speaking, I don't know if my final team will have a mage in this situation... : p - Single class. WHY ? Snif... Seriously, there is actually absolutly not argument to take a single class. It is perhaps a choice for dev : to put news thing better... but the game is WIDELY in favor of multiclass. Or there is somthing I have not found in the beta. As it stands, I will never take this option. To correct urgently for balancing ?

Don't forget an important thing : The game must be accessible to new players. - The concept of "no pen" (+30 % etc) etc, is not very accessible. PO1 was perfect (Totally Soustractive concept = simple 10 - 5 = 5 DR). Personnally I was thinking Obsidian want to dynamise the combat and the immediate reading of this. Or with that this is the opposite. +Miss (No grazes = frustrating when you want to evolve in the comprehension of the game, like me in beta, so... like a new player) +Complex (Risk of lost new players with no patience). Result of this metagame = the idea of Katarack. Rush to all +penetration. The game becoming "all or nothing" (+30 % or...No pen). Very punishing on the first game for new players. And counter the idea of universal pleasure for all classes. Here again (+) Multiclass (-) Singleclass. For the idea of lappost : Can be an idea but... The system become more complex.

I am at ease, I thought I was playing poorly : p So, there is a bigger tendency to miss, that's what I thought ... Actually it makes the fight more ... random from a certain point of view. (I would say like you that it's worse than POE1 on this one)

Exact. In the same way, personnaly, I will have to add a lot of TALENT/SPELLS. Excuse-me obsidian, excuse-me for that (I like a lot of things in the beta) BUT... Personnaly I expected 2 news spells by level/line AND much more new talents. Because yes, IF YOU want stay in this "locked" (Class bound) system, the importance of number of talent in each CLASS TREE is -critical-. (Like x 2, easily, for me...) OR, to stay with less talents (like POE1), but in general pool. If not, I am a little bit... disappointed. It is a new game, not an extension.

There is no confirmation bias. Boeroer said a simple things : a class is now a massive cube with all his stuff. The principal pleasure is flexibility in PoE 1. With singleclass in POE2 we have less flexibility. it is a fact. I call this "The changement over time". Maintain player interrest. Each level. = is not great now. In PoE there an alternance with talents / powers, now ? At the creation all is determinate. "Building" a character is less attractive. Not underestimate the different choices, over time, of the player. Especially for single class, now. More, in POE 2 I expected more than less Talents/possibilities. The first impression is not great : 90 % of similar things for now (same for spells anyway...) And it is lock to class.

+1 Just that for now. I have not yet end to practice the beta. I will back soon here for a complet "review".

I have DL the beta. I opened the Game and analyse a little bit the many changements... And you Boeroer, have detected the primary problem. A big +1 (I wanted to create the same topic !) For me, there is a problem. I understand the new concept : two classes can combine and give the famous few ex "talents". Referent to the concept of the class (blood slaugther = barbarian) BUT the problem is : for single class, there is no choice/limited choice. Single class is a great loser of this game. Like said higher, a pool of general talents was better (Choice, choice, choice in a game !). A the time where ORIGINAL SIN 1/2 tends towards "no class", you lock all the talents distilled to all classes ! Unbelievable ! It is not absurd to think a +15 % damage two hand for barbarian. And no : this is for FIGTHER. Yes you can multiclass... But this is limited.

1) BOBBY : Will there be visual exoticism in this game ? (Things that make difference with the first game. In the trailer, we saw palm trees, and more foliage for example) 2) JOSH : Much has been said about multi-classes, do you think that a "19/1" will be viable with your system? 3) Subsidiary question, with your system and five party members (five role well defined), will we go to a total advantage to take a pure class (non-multiclassed) ?

there is always hired adventurers ? (personalized)

For me : 75 % = 4 level of ranger Pure = 3 level of ranger Multiclass. Concrete exemple : 16 levels of ranger Real 4 level of barbarian Real = 12 level of ranger Multiclass 3 level of barbarian Multiclass = 15 effectives levels. I think it is that.

In terms of 75 %, it is ok. But the ultimate question : There is an access to others abilities/class talents when you switch to sub-class. Eg : Ranger 3 Barbarian 4 With the fourth level of ranger, do I take "talents/abilities" of barbarian 4 ? If not, there is the NWN 2 effect, and take another level stop access of the other class. (Feat) It is interessting if there 2 abilities in barbarian at level 4 wich can be interresting for exemple.

Pastor Tony Evans.

Exactly. It is the problem with late spells and events at the end in generals. Like a certain bonus when you kill two dragons and a mage at the end. Or persuade her for a bonus... that is useless because... it's the end of the game : p

Archaven, don't expect too much... I think sub-classes in this game = ~ bonus of classes in PoE1... + modification of the concept (with or without pet etc.) I hope better but I prefer do not expect too much with that. ---- Yes, it is one of the best stretch goals. Guys ! With level 20 there a ton of new abilities and spells.

Problem with WM : if the player go in this area at the end, there is a loss of scaling. But with PoE 2 if I understand right, there is scaling... So no problem. Personnaly, for an extension, I prefer an "epic-epic side" (Concept of evolution, ever highter you know). So obviously, High level battle = end.

So "sub-classes" up to 3 for all classes ? EDIT PS : I had seen right for the level cap increase. : p

So... There is absolutely no choice at level up ? You took every abilities ? Not sure to like this system.

To Level 20 Before end of backing. 100 % sure, personnaly. If not, the level 20 is programmed for DLC. (like white march) But it was programmed one day for stretch goal.

The true reason for 5 characters is Casual Gamers and testers. (Especially do not shake them with too many things) It's true. Readability. End of the story ^^ It is a very bad news, but Josh Sawyer camp on its positions.

G.G. in perspective.

Yes, Josh has describe the phenomenon of empowering : a large difference. Understand : visible. This may mean that each level of character is really important, which comes to the disadvantage of the multi-class.

60 % Twitter. 10 % Half of Usha's questions (this topic) 30 % Chat. = This forum : forgotten realm.