theBalthazar

I tried obviously. But there is better spells to inferior level. It is all. So, after that, there is not -superior- valors at these level to use them. Simple. I don't say all was bull****. I say : Spells at level 16-20 MUST be Very very effective to compensate their late arrival. More effective than level 12-16 spells of POE1 in the first game. Because these spells was equivalents or less than certain spells at lower levels. The difference is: spells at level 12-16 has an efficiency in POE1 (I don't say there was totally useless when used). But no ... They must be MORE effective this time !^^ If not Single class keep nothing.

Single class in POE2... ...LOL. +7 talents against +Double core abilities +Double choice in panel +More Power Source (Yes... count again) VS +Hypothetical OP Spells/abilities At the very end of the game (16-20) +A big advance over time on better spells/abilities. ----------- So, the only advantage of single class right now, is the last point. You are "ahead" with "new things". If you have enough options in multiclass to be efficient : it is not sufficient to compensate in single class. Few ideas : * Better empower. WHEN I see Nature godlike with +2 power level, you cannot tell me single class can't have a +2 power level with empower (against 1 now ?). It is logical. One class = more perf in this class at the critical moment. * Special passive/active abilities at the creation for each single classes. A reward to compensate +7 points AP of difference and other core of multiclass. * More empower per encounter OR/AND more empower per rest. ETC ETC.

For me this is a problem. In POE1 there was a balancing for each class. OK. Here, with multiclass you are looking FOR the good and logical combo between 2 classes. The rules of stack must becoming more flexible otherwise some classes will be useless. The risk of "oh no... this does not work... That seemed logical oh ! here too... and here..."

If he puts talents, I wonder where they will put them because there is almost no room at the panel level at the right.

Actual conditions : 1. Barbarian Corpse Eater Single class 2. Frenzy. 3. UI show +25 % recovery. (+25 = malus, it is normally a bonus, so more -25 recovery speed) Dexterity : 11 = -3 % = ok. Heavy armor : +50 % = ok. Like this for all abilities of barbarian when frenzied. EDIT : After many test, same for base class and others subclasses

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter-nights-2 82 %. A unmitigated disaster, indeed.

I feel POE2 need more choices, any kind. I think general talents like POE1 + Balancing them with active abilities (because shared ressources) can improve the game strongly. RPG like NWN1/2/Original Sin etc = build for me (concept of pleasure). Strictly personal. I want this because I feel it's good for the rpgs I usually like. It's my subjectivity, and no one can judge it. End of the debate : p

Do you think that with these new rules, the priest has enough spells each level ?

EDIT (Fuuu... I lost my long text with a bug) Good. To resume : I talked about feat of NWN2. And to conclude with my deveppement (^^...) : With general pool Single : Talents x99 - Active abilities x1 Multi : Talents x 99 - Active abilities x 2 Without Single : Talents x1 - Active abilities x1 Multi : Talents x2 - Active abilities x2 So for balancing in favor of Single class, the answer is also general pool. Single class is already less attractive, so... (I said a lot of -more or less- smart things but no matter, it is lost : p)

Not bad for the priest... But there is always the problem of number no ? Wizard : 1 by level + 2 each level of spells by grimoire. (that we can more or less choose) = 3+++ Cipher : 1 by level + core base until 40 % damage. Druid : 1 by level + spiritshifting Priest : 1 by level + 1 by imposed list (okay, most can be fine and we choose the base obedience but... this is not yet perfect ?) = 2 --- except if there is holy books like grimoires ? https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/933394936837259264

Very good, I have read that yes, but for mark the memory, we must play with the build. I have start with the class at the top and I play to all subclasses (logically I started with barbarian etc.) But this is awsome, especially since now the damage is no longer absorbed by the DR.

Sometimes when I play to the beta... I think I miss a little too often. I like the idea of "no graze" or graze in option (like what said gromir about dire blessing), so perhaps two options for that : 1) Increase Accuracy / Decrease defenses of ennemies. 2) Decrease a little the span of "Miss" (better option). It is obvious there is class better than others. (like weapons with accuracy + capable switch in grazes) but overall, I still have this feeling sometimes, even after 30h. ------ Unrelated to that, Josh gave the reason (which I suspected) of "why this change" for talents. When we read between the lines, there are two reasons : 1) To avoid useless talents. (but for me the argument is bad, because when it is class specific, it is not better. Less overall choice for all classes-1 + ...a bad choice for the class in question) 2) True reason (in my opinion) : Allow the player not to spend necessarily on the talents (give more choice and possibilities). Witch give the shared ressources we know in beta. Source : https://twitter.com/jesawyer

Yes ! I tried them, indeed. I wanted to say : Almost not use after testing them. But with single class, in our case, I hope trully than new spells will not only be decoration spells or "not-bad spells"... Because it is the trump card of Single class !...

Not crazy if the time you do these spells you have already win. Freezing rake and avenging storm was ok, but there was a equivalent options... (A famous spell... ...in a special grimoire... ennemies paralysed... and iced : p Or a storm at level 5...)

Guys. Classless is a lie. I am a great player of Original Sin (first of the name). Original Sin have class. But it is just more subtile. Attribute tends to force your orientation. Without 15+ in the attribute you can't hope to be efficient on your segment. Two attributes + speed is ok with optimization. tree is too much. The player wants an inspiring and logical framework, AND the flexibility to be able to choose. NWN1 and 2 are perfect exemple to that. The number of possible build in this game is incredible. More build than Original Sin, I think, by far. And what ? There are classes ? And yes !... So classes are not limiting. The fact is NWN have a plethora of Feat, Prestige classes + conditionnal bonus to class + general conditionnal bonus + Epic level. (Who remembers of epic divine might and its +21 charisma +21 Strength etc.) So much content and possibilities with storm of zehir...

Levels 16-20 = 20 % of the duration of the game with -hypothetical- game breaker spells. Except if like POE1 you max your level long before. In this case Single class can enjoy of its particularity a little more. There is also a slight advance to progression. To test... (After all, the beta is to detriment of single class : low level, little difference) Frankly, I hope they will be more inspired than the spells they produced for the 12-16 of White March... Because I did not -never- use any, I think, from memory. (Perhaps twin arrows L13 and substantial phantom ? No more)

I just checked ! interesting combo ! So ... We can not say it yet ... People will say we are repeating ourselves but ... : Multiclass. It is all : p The stuff named "class" in POE1 (With one class = has been) does not exist anymore : p

The only problem with berserker actually is the spellcaster time. 6 seconds. You need to wait the prayer of the spirit (They supress eachothers = prayer of the spirit is only a canceller for ONE guy, victim of confused, no more there will be no bonuses at the end). It is one action of the priest. In endgame hum... Perhaps there will be better to do than that... the priest is heavily busy to catch up the situation. And here... we can't tell anything about that : if there is an equivalent later in highter level, Barbarian will became better. If not, Barbarian is useless. After that, indeed : +5 might = +15 % damage and +25 % AS. It is good... but for 2 PS of rage... Obviously better than POE1, but not crazy. Only Berserker is a real barbarian in a certain point of view.

I don't understand why there is debate : the objective of devs is : boost general speed of the gameplay. 4 mains options : PAUSE (stop) - SLOW (POE1) NORMAL (POE2 beta) FAST (>) - VERY FAST (>>) (Sometimes, in POE1 I wanted go faster for travel...) And a short ruler+cursor. (custom speed) When you use custom speed. Basic options are disable. When you click on basic options again : the custom cursor moves itself to the right level. Global Buttons (like now) + Short ruler.

Yes, we can see that like that but : Now there is a new... "economy". Each invested point is very important. If blessing and dire blessing was in previous system : no problem, its perfectly ok for me. But here, there is the concept of choice... And... dire blessing is widely better. The only interresting case is retention for level 3 (like you have explain). But with new system per encounter, this is limited. For encourage people to take the two : (inspired by the first game) Blessing : Inspiration insightful + 10 % of damage. Dire Blessing : Inspiration Aware + 20 % of hits converts to crit. Each spell gain a specificity. In this situation I take easily the two spells.

MY IMPRESSIONS AFTER +30h playing the beta. Summer is coming. Pro ++System of Rest + endurance without Health. (No change) WHY ? I stay on this idea ! I did not like buy campfire 2 by 2. Use Food is an excellente idea. Food becomes a gameplay element with its bonuses. +Fast/Better loading (No change, Subject to view the full game at the *end* of the game. POE1 had longer loading in this situation. Here it is a new save and a beta...) WHY ? Always so Obvious : p ++ Concept of Multiclass (No change) WHY ? I like build. More possibilities is always nice. +Stealth system+Pause when stealth (No change) WHY ? The system is globally better in all points. +Design/Style/Approach of dialog system (No change) WHY ? Work for me. Great job ! + Retarget fonction. (No change) WHY ? Simple and excellent idea. + Empower (WAS Intermediate) WHY ? I hesitated. I Always think empower must be 2 per encounter, and 3 per rest at level 6 (Look at my previous post) BUT... finally It is a big pro. I like the concept, I think it is a great idea globally. But the player will only appreciate if he can do it at least twice per fight. (More recursive function) And then if we refill : Nothing is left to empower at least one spell/abilitie after that... + Subclasses (WAS Intermediate) WHY ? I always think there is variations between subclasses (Big bonus and small penalty and the opposite here and here). But globally there is a lot of choice. And a lot needs to think around (Berserker = intellect inspiration etc). My judgement changed EVEN if, there is specific case which I would name apart in this list... (look at cons...) -------------------------------------- Intermediate : ++/- Inspirations / Affliction / Resistance (NEW !) WHY ? I tell it : It is almost a Pro. One thing bothers me. Priest level 1 and level 3. What is... the interrest... to take the same spells if there is a full upgrade (Dire blessing) ? If not stack AND if there is only single choice each level (and not the full package like before), nobody will take blessing level 1 (Insightfull + Aware = Useless) . So if you set this problem, it is a great con for me. +/- Exploration on map (No change) WHY ? The -feeling- of exploration is better. It is a fact. Move yourself is a good thing. but... I'm afraid that phase of gameplay become... Boring ? You know : move a thumbail on a map. Yes you take several ressources, but BE CAREFUL... This could be... Boring eventually. Things must happen to brighten up the gameplay. +/- Modals of weapons (WAS Pro) WHY ? Yes, I changed my mind here. Because modal are not all equivalent, and are ultra situational. I think we can improve them. (And more, I think they can be play a function for accuracy bonus for exemple) There is more potential for this modals. +/- System a injury (Was Con) WHY ? I hesitated now. I do not know what to think about it. I play better so I fall less, so no matter the system ... But I can not comment on this item. 25 % for each injury will force me very quickly to rest so .... Perhaps not good for beginner ? +/- "Miss" (Was con) WHY ? I understand now where devs want to go. If problems of accuracy of casters is set, characters will less miss and it will feel less. So... Wait and see. The concept of "no graze" is interresting now for me. (wasn't) +/- Grimoire (NEW !) WHY ? It is complicated. So pay attention. With THIS system (shared ressource active+passive, one by level for casters), I think there is a potential for grimoires. Unic spells in it or/and a greater fonction for wizard. after I can not say if it's better than the old system. (Pleasure to complete grimoire etc). Here, the utility, function, is increased, (to the detriment of the priest, who has no grimoire to compensate for his small number of spells). It will also be necessary to make sure that changing grimoire is more intuitive than POE1. --------------------------------------- Con: - Bad subclasses BLACK JACKET + BEGUILER + CORPSE EATER + NALPACZA (NEW !) WHY ? After few tests, these subclasses are the weakest. It is a real problem because concepts of these classes are great but too restrictive (Bad bonus and/or big penalty...). - New penetration mechanic (No change for me atm, but with hope after Josh tweet !!^^) WHY ? I dislike the concept of "All or nothing" of this choice. I prefer the system of POE1 (gradual + Simply Subtractive) - No Slow mode (No change) WHY ? I don't find the slow mode. If it is a choice, I dislike. In this kind of game, the player must can understand slowy. A move... but slow move. (not pause, it is different). - No new primary class concept (NEW !) WHY ? It's something we do not think about often enough. There is no new class ! so I hope for an extension for example. But it is an argument against the game. Not a disaster if the subclasses are well done but it should be noted. - New approach of Priest (NEW !) WHY ? Now, priest cannot take all spells of his line (so no general list like before). There is already less choice. Subclasses imposed one category and excludes anothers. But let's admit that. The impression that there is less spells than in the 1 (Where is the special upgrade +10 accuracy ?, where are the 10 spells at L1 ? 6 now ! WTF ?), and that in addition, it is necessary to choose only one. No... I can't allow this madness: p - - Absolute nerf of casters + Lack of accuracy (More con) WHY ? Casting time IS trully too long. I mean... When you do a simple buff = 6 seconds ! If again it was powerful, but here I feel there is a logical inadequacy. There is a problem with casters compared to others classes. - - Single class (More con) WHY ? It is terrible, truly. Actually there is not interrest to take single class. 5 points of rage against 4 in multiclass, with more variety of passive and active abilities. A kid of 5 years old would see that there is a problem... BOOST : better Empower ! Boost Power source ! Boost : Specific start with unic abilitie for them. There is tone of ideas to make them stand out !^^ - - Locked Talents (El famoso ex-General pool...) + Lack of talents (More con) WHY ? Case of Priest, Case of all classes for lack of choice. Previously you have full line + One talent on two levels. Now a forced school + ONE passive OR active abilitie. The biggest problem actually. For druid : 3 passive (ex-talents), against 20+ in POE1. Laughable. Yes there is multiclass, but even in multiclass there is less choice for passive abilities. (compared to before) we will not even talk to single class...

Excellent, the semi-gradual version. I think it it the best idea. (To test obviously)

True. Perhaps we don't have all the passives. that does not prevent us to question what we are being offered -now-. Who will say that it is a final and irrevocable judgment? No one. These topics are used to discuss, to see what is not yet optimal ... So, to feel the approach of game system, and his shortcomings with regard to the things that were here before (POE1) > totally "rational" things (this is also not full game for you too : p )

The truth is Obsidian was shocked by fighter. They did everything to boost it in the first game. They never succeeded. There was a frustration so... ...In the 2... They took revenge. Priest + Wizard kneeling (Was best classes in the first game... coincidence ? : p Contrary for Fighter). ----- For proficiency, I agree with Mr Hiero. Less is better, and because I am crazy today, I add a progressive accuracy bonus + 1-6, on level 1 to 20. motivate the player and report the valuable side of this resource.