Boeroer

That's not really how attack speed works - but it's way too complicated to put it in a few words. There's that whole thread about it. Yeah - you can always retrain if you find something cool that you like better.

I don't think so. You just snuff the candle, Edér says his piece and that's it. Or not?

As far as I know wounding still stacks - with makes Drawn in Spring one of the best DPS weapons overall. Sadly, the UI doesn't show wounding right, like it fails to communicate correct values on so many other occasions. I may be wrong here - I didn't use a wounding weapon since 3.04 - but I guess that a lot of the hardcore-people here would have complained if OBS nerfed this. BUT you have to have high MIG in order to experience the true greatness of wounding. That's because MIG not only influences the damage roll which wounding's damage is based on, but it also buffs wounding directly (doing more than 25%). With low MIG wounding is not as good. Some rogues have lowish MIG because they can get lots of other DMG boosts and therefore invest more in DEX or PER. Bittercut is very good if you also take Spirit of Decay and put a corrosive lash on it. Two damage types are very nice to have, too. If I would have to decide between stilettos and daggers I would probably take stilettos - but only because all the Lagufaeth stilettos tou can loot do slash damage instead of pierce. That way you can have a good backup weapon set for the enemies who are resistant or immune to pierce damage. But as I said: rapier + dagger totally fine. Just avoid to use abilities with them that only have limited uses like Backstab and Finishing Blow. Those work one time with the weapon's base damage and since light, fast weapons have low base damage the outcome would be meh. Just skip those or switch to a heavy weapon (guns also work) before using those abilities. Also includes Runner's Wounding Shot, which is very powerful with a heavy weapon like an arquebus for example and not so good with a dagger.

Please don't be sarcastic. Nobody said or meant that. We are just saying that those weapons or the usage of them don't prove anything around the question "weakest class/best damage dealer". Of course those are great weapons and they improve a melee character's performance. But not only the performance of rogues. Rogues do more crits than most other classes and maybe the most crits when it comes to single targets - but that doesn't make them the best damage dealer or a powerfull class per se. It's not that other classes don't crit at all or something like that.

No, not vastly. Just a bit. It's totally viable to wield daggers or stilettos. But if you ask me about the optimum of dps I would say dual Rimecutters are best - and the best overall would be We Toki for me because the combo of prone on crit + extra crit damage is nice, followed by Drawn in Spring. Only my personal opinion though. But as I said the Sword of Daenysis + March Steel Dagger is also very nice and it will feel very powerful because so early in the game you will find few dw combos which are as good. If you like the duelist style you can totally do that, stick to it and have lots of fun. Two daggers is also ok of course. There are some nice unique stilettos, also early ones. I wouldn't say that stilettos are worse than daggers when it comes to uniques. Honestly you can take whatever weapon you want - it will not gimp your rogue. This game isn't like that. The weapons are well balanced and the differences between weapons are marginal if you play with a party. If you like daggers best then it's no problem at all. Just don't pick Backstab then (I know: "WTF?" ).

- Daggers: nope, not per se. They are especially bad with things like Backstab because they have high speed but low per hit damage. Backstab attacks are limited so you want to have as much ooph as you can get when backstabbing. That's only an issue if you plan to use Backstab of course. Or you could always have another weapon the the second slot just for the backstabs and switch to daggers once the autoattacking begins. The best one handed weapons for a rogue are those which work well with the high crit chances a rogue has. Those can be annihilating weapons like all battle axes, unique sabres or whatever has that enchantment and is one handed - or those can be weapons which proc an effect when you do a crit - like prone or stun (We Toki battle axe, Cladhaliath spear, Godanysthunyr war hammer). So, in this regard battle axes (as a group) could be seen as the best weapons for rogue - the best one handed weapon maybe We Toki, maybe Cladaliath with stunning + Vicious, maybe Drawn in Spring - or even the two annihilating sabres Resolution and Purgatory. But I doubt that all could agree on one single weapon, a single weapon group or even a single weapon focus because it also depends a lot on your playstyle and how you use a rogue. Drawn in Spring is a great Weapon, on of the best in the game. But since you get it quite late and have to duplicate it in order to dual wield it, I would say daggers as a weapon group are not the superuber best pick - but also not bad, mind you. You can also use rapiers with the same weapon focus and therefore you can combine really good early game weapons like Sword of Daenysis + March Steel dagger which is very good if you look at dps (both have the speed enchantment which lets you easily achieve 0 recovery with a rogue). This has also the advantage that you will do pierce and slash damage and not slash only. - You have to use the Helwax Mold. It's an item you can get via stronghold adventure. You can use the mold to clone any non-soulbound item once (including all enchtantments). - Drawn in Spring, too. A dagger which has high dps and comes quite early is the March Steel Dagger from that quest with the boy Gordy in Defiance Bay, Copperlane. As I said it has speed and that's the best dps enchantment there is besides wounding. - good rapiers are Sword of Daenysis (Salty Mast top floor, Vincent Dwellier, CRPG), Spelltongue (WMI) and Vienna's Leaves (Endless Paths, Adra Dragon). For me the best overall is Sword of Daenysis because it comes so early, has speed and is rending, too (inherent 3 DR bypass like stilettos). But in certain situations and with certain builds Spelltongue is better. - I would say yes. Especially if you use fast, light weapons which tend to have problems with high DR - but watch out: you can't just switch it on and think it's always benefical. There is a sweet spot (DR vs speed) where switching on VA is benefical. BUT there's a case where you can always use it without drawbacks: If you follow my fist recommendation with Sword of Daenysis + March Steel Dagger (Spelltongue + March Steel also works - you can even switch to Drawn in Spring later once you have Durgan Steel) you can quickly reach 0 recovery. Once you reach 0 recovery you can't get faster even if you add more speed bonuses. That is the time when Vulnerable Attack starts to be really good because you don't lose speed (you have "too much speed" already) but will deal +5 damage with every hit.

The target group for CRPGs is a lot smaller - while those people also tend to buy Witcher- and Skyrim-like games. Some of them even buy Dark Souls.

Technically Disciplined Barrage is a buff.

Yes it did. By the way: do the people that got PoE via crowdfunding reward also count (on steam)? Because a game that's funded by Kickstarter and such is a success per se once the funding was successful and the game was shipped. As far as I know Tyranny was completely paid by a publisher- So maybe the 160.000 copies are even worse than with a game that sold 160.000 as well but was funded on a crowd ourcing platform.

I wouldn't say Tyranny sucked - I played it and was enough fun for sure. And it had some really nice features, too. But for me and my taste it is in no way as good as PoE. I couldn't convince myself to do more than 2.5 playthroughs and then I really had enough of it. Only my personal perception. I don't want to say that this must be the case for everybody else. So I would agree to OP that I don't want PoE2 to be like Tyranny.

It's called chickening out. Show me a rogue doing a proper encounter - even with sidekicks. That's how you can determine if a class is weakest or is no.1 single target damage dealer or not. Maybe there are other ways, but picking a single small thing and deducing that this thing makes a whole class strong or weak is not. You can't determine if a class is weak or not or top single target DPS or not by showing me the likelyness of crits. This can be a hint but nothing more. It's like - instead of accepting the fair challenge to come up with a good build and show what it can achieve in an encounter - I would ask you to find a class that can petrify enemies other than druid an wizard and then saying "you lost the challenge" if you can't. My challenge still stands. If you don't want to accept it then fine. But don't come up with alternative meaningless challenges like the one above. Because then this would go on forever - I'm also capable of inventing meaningless challenges - like "0 recovery with a two hander with Vulnerable Attack, plate armor, Cautious Attack and without scrolls and potions". But since that is just pussyfooting around I won't do it. I don't say you lost my challenge, but if you're not willing to accept it nor even talk about it I assume you have developed some doubts.

Nope. It has no effect on the game. But maybe it has in PoE2 if you import your save game. If I look at Josh and his diabolical grin that appears every now and then in the twitch streams i can imagine that OBS might put a consequence into PoE2 if you snuffed the candle in PoE1.

Not really (I guess). There's a system that lets you empower your per-encounter spells. For example you can empower your Magic Missile spell in a way that it has way more missiles. Think of original magic missile (spell, 3 missiles) compared to Missile Barrage (scroll, 9 missiles) like they were in PoE. Those empowerments can only be regained through resting. So you will have a kind of vancian casting - but only for the powerful spell variants. The plain (an maybe quite weak compared to empowered) variants can always be used per encounter. I think this deepens the system instead of flatten it, but this is only speculation at the moment of course. But if I take the measure of Josh correctly he won't do such things like streamlining just to appeal to a wider mass. The reduction from 6 to 5 party members is sad - but since I don't know and can't foresee the drawbacks and benefits of it yet I will keep my feet still on that matter.

I can only judge based on the fig updates, twitch streams and some OBS posts here and there, but it seems that the game will be even deeper when it comes to builds, mechanics and tactics. Hopefully those things will be explained better than on PoE where it's somewhat difficult to find out how things really work under the hood. It's ok for veterans who also read in forums and so on, but hard for beginners and can lead to frustration. But multiclassing alone should lead to a multitude of possible approaches how you can deal with enemies and quests. Tyranny also lacked the possibility to have many different but also viable builds. Some where supergood and the rest just meh. Some build that seemed to make sense were really bad. PoE does this way better and I think they want to focus on that, too because Josh always said he' proud of this special feature: that you can build every class very differently and still be effective. Maybe the reason why Tyranny was more streamlined was that it was done with a publisher. This may be the main reason that some games (have to) appeal to wider masses most of the time. Since PoE and PoE2 will be the total IP of Obsidian I'm pretty confident that we will not see those problems with PoE2.

I think I answered that question good enough in my previous post. See the part about barbs and monks. They will generate more crits and therefore prone/stun in a given timespan without buffs, scrolls or potions as long as more than two enemies are attacked. Especially the barb will do at higher levels because he needs no resource like wounds for it and because carnage + accurate carnage will result in +11 accuracy at lvl 16 with carnage hits - give in the barb's carnage more accuracy than the rogue's autoattacks and having the big advantage that he will hit a lot more foes at the same time, thus generating more crits in total. Maybe even a melee dual wielding ranger will be able to proc on crit effects as many times with the help of his companion - didn't test that but he could come close. His ACC will be higher but he will have lower hit/drit conversion. But does he need to do that? Nope, because he has stunning shts which also works in melee - thus making on crit effects totally redundant because he will cause stun with every hit. So even the high proc-on-crit rate of a rogue doesn't truely make him best at anything that's relevant. But why are you changing the subject so dramatically from some general statements to this nitpicking? It sounds a bit like saying (not implying you meant it that way): "Wait a second - your arguments are good and all, BUT: can you find a build that can deal more than 100 damage with a two hander with a single crit at level 4 - twice per encounter? You can't? Haha - there you go! All your arguments from before are wrong because you can't do this special task, nah nah nah nah!". Besides a paladin with Firebrand maybe no one can deal such hits at lvl 4. That doesn't mean the paladin is the strongest dps class or good at anything else than doing strong hits twice per encounter with FoD & Firebrand. Now I'm pretty sure you do not want to accept the challenge. The reasons remain concealed...

All in all I find the Adra Beetle to be the most useful I guess. I never use summons in party play and only do solo runs here and there - so I'm really no expert on using summons.

Possibly a barb who attacks a mob and a monk who uses Torment's Reach on a mob. But what does it matter to find some small niche (dual wielding on crit weapons that you find very late in the game without buffs and so on) where rogues are good? In theory, a priest for example could crit more reliably with the right talents and spells that are inherent to his class. He will buff himself to +40 ACC with two spells and add +20% hit to crit conversion with another. Then he uses this bonuses to attack in melee - which is the worst choice... But what is it good for to find those unimportant niches? If it's great single target CC you are looking for, a fighter will be better, reliably able to prone even dragons. A monk, being able to use Stunning Blows, Skyward Kick and Force of Anguish, can deliver CC more reliably, too. Especially because such abilities get +1 to accuracy per level while using on-crit effects don't. But why discuss those minor matters? We want to determine if rogues are the weakest class and no. 1 single target guy. I have the impression you want to chicken out of the challenge.

They are considered to be hazards and hazards have an inherent acc bonus. So they will hit good enough. Also keep in mind that every spell and ability gets +1 ACC per char level.

It's because you don't have to pay for food, water, a home, the doctor and clothing. Why would you buy clothing when everything you find automatically fits you? It would be really tedious to care and pay for those things in a RPG though.

Welcome to the forum! I hope you will have as much fun with this game as I do - well, maybe that's an evil curse if I think about it. It gets a whole lot easier once you understand the underlying mechanics better.

Maybe that one level is not enough. You need 9 skill points from 9 to 10 if I'm not mistaken. You can use resting bonuses (stronghold or an inn - don't know which one) and/or a rite of hidden wonders, too. That should be quicker.

If you want to build a melee character you have a choice between a fighter, paladin, rogue, barb, monk, cipher, ranger, druid, wizard, chanter and priest. Because you can build a good melee char out of every class. The one good thing that rogues have though is that their key features work in melee as well as in ranged combat. They are still the weakest class and not best at anything (besides mechanics and using damaging spells). You can tell me what your rogue does best the whole day and I will tell you that another class can do it better. There's no point in discussing this further if we are not willing to prove it somehow. By the way I never said that rogues can't work well for you and others. They do good single target damage and therefore can be great for certain situations. I play rogues myself - it's not that I resent them. I used the rogue (in this case Devil of Caroc) for a decent, tanky Badgradr's-Barricade-build as one of the first here in the forum for example. It's good and fun to play. But that wasn't what we started with. You said that rogues are somewhere in the upper "power tier" of your perception and experience (fair enough if your experience and the way you play the game lead you to that impression). I then said that rogues are the weakest class and you said they aren't. You said that rogues are no. 1 damage dealers by far and I said they aren't. Of course someone is wrong and the other is right. I once had this exact same argument, but the other way round: somebody said that a druid does better single target damage and I was very sure that a rogue is better. He then posted some screenshots of his druid and I rebuild it and compared it to some melee rogues - with dual annihilating sabres, with Tall Grass, with Hours of St. Rumbalt, with Firebrand, with Tidefall, with dual Rimecutters (possibly the highest DPS setup for autoattacks), with dual Bittercut and dual Drawn in Spring even. After I tried all those very special things I never said that rogues are no. 1 single target damages dealers again. So that's why I suggested the challenge. If you are 100% sure that you are right then this is the way to show me once and for all that rogues are not the weakest class in the game (the only exception is a rogue who specializes in damaging scrolls and spell bindings, like the Sorcerer's Apprentice build. But this is not the kind of rogue most people mean anyway when discussing about rogues). So, what about the duel? No point in discussing this further. I'm very confident and willing, what about you?

Yes - and you need a character with 10 mechanics minimum while you are stealthed.

The magma blight does pretty decent damage (for a figurine summon).

Paladins only have 20 base deflection. With a shield that has Preservation (the first one can be found in Endless Paths lvl 5 - drake) and any other item with that same enchantment (like Blaidh Golen hide armor - Brackenbury Snatorium) you can get +100 to all defenses when prone or stunned. This will prevent the priest frm getting killed if he gets stunned or prone and can't cast buffs.