Elric Galad

Checking the Gamedata is often the key. It is faster than testing in-game an enable to spot if there are discrepency between 2 supposed similar bonuses. What I mean is : there's always a cause. It can mix up weird gamedata, Load/save cycles impacting, etc... Which leads different people to have different experience because they think they describe similar cases when a hidden parameter cause different results. And sometimes there are even several causes... So checking systematically the code is a good place to start.

Well I don't know yet. Current BPM has a Tier 3 limit to Brilliant regen but my local version uses a cycling version which regenerates up to Tier 3/6/9. With it BDD could be regenerated every 9s on average. I'm not set on changing BDD. I've spoken with CP Authors about BDD before this thread and they may try a nerf to limit BDD in some way. Then this thread started while I was already scratching my head about how to tweak BDD. I'll see what I'll do after CP Authors try in their own way. It also depends where this thread goes. I'm not in a hurry. I'm just happy to have this barrier-based solution which seems quite straightforward and doesn't rely on an obscure mechanic to prevent immortality. It's good to have a pretty satisfying solution in case something has to be done.

But we're not dev, we're modder and each mod has its own purpose. If you need an unique modded crossbow, there's one over there : TT2 Unique Items Enchanced at Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Nexus - Mods and Community

@MaxQuest, @Phenomenum, should it be patched in your opinion ?

Yeah, as I stated I a bit above in the thread, the difference is not only about convenience but also about the wound you have to take to get resurrection effect which makes infinite recast impossible. Resurrection is much stronger, but not abusable. I think it's different to say that a spell is simply overpowered and that it can be abused through combo. Brisk recitation is a good example of something simply overpowered. The phrase generation bonus is simply too high. Salvation of Time on the other hand is not overpowered on its own (except maybe with Blade Cascade but it is so tedious to use that it is tolerable for me). Balance Polishing Mod tweaked it in a way that caps at doubling the duration of a given effects. However, BPM's version applies PL and INT to the duration gain. BPM's version of SoT is not technically a nerf because it makes it stronger in general case but prevent abuses. As you point, BDD effect is indeed not overpowered for a Tier 5. I agree with you on that. It is abusable (through infinite recast). It does not require a nerf. It requires a tweak IMHO. That's the kind of change (still open to debate, just to provide an example) I have in mind for BDD : - Infinite duration for the trigger (aligned with Watchful Presence) - When near death, it would triggerd a shield for 12s (200 pts base + 10/PL beyond 5) It would make BDD stronger in general (anticipated casting, longer duration, shield "covers" healing better than prevent death) but would not provide technical immortality anymore.

I think that a single cast of BDD is indeed never broken on its own. The issue happens when you can extend its duration (but as you pointed it is not a problem with the modded game) or when it is cast repeatedly (which is possible through Brilliant mostly, but cutting it completely from the game is not planned). Tactician / Priest is a good candidate for this but any frontliner supported by a backrow cipher could work.

To be more clear, I won't be very at ease with the 5% health trigger without a theoritical proof of minimum possible HP. I think a SC Cipher/Wiz with lowest Con and Wounds can be lower than 20 health so Prevent Death effect removal may never trigger...

I don't see any problem with Wall of Draining or SoT since I've already modded these ones. WoD and SoT aren't able to extend any effect infinitely (well, WoD technically can but can be acheived very rarely and tediously). WoD / SoT problems should anyway be addressed by WoD / SoT tweaks. I'm just concerned about BDD recast that would make one immortal (even if this combo is never as guaranteed as the ld Brilliant + BDD + SoT combo). By the way, from a technical point of view, what you say can indeed be done using similar mechanic as Magran's Might at least (pulsating effect with AoE so small that it only affects main target). But it is basically creating an exception to general rules which I hat about as much as you hate cooldowns. I'm not even sur we can use this 5% in a satisfying way. It's a convoluted mechanism, in both versions (I know I'm the one who suggested them ) That's why the Near Death shield currently has my favor. Short time immortality would be worse in most cases. And Death Godlike special will also be preserved by a non-healing effect. I don't like the Brilliant cap from the other thread by the way, that's why I retweaked it as you can read there (since I don't care about SoT / WoD).

Proposal 5 : getting rid of the prevent death part altogether (so no issue about threshold) and just let it be a super high barrier (~200 ?) that activate on near death. The trigger would have infinite duration but the shield would be limited in time. Would be close from Watchful presence in design but with a twist. No complicated mechanism and still serves its original purpose. And if people get one shoted... Just don't dump constitution please.

Good. Now only the question about DoT and shield remains. Threshold is important not for typical case but for extreme case. What if someone used a party member with extremely low health to avoid the removal of Prevent Death ? 99 health will never be under 1% health. Even 5% might not be strictly enough because I think one can go down to 19 health on purpose. I would even add +20 temporary health to the effect to avoid possible exploits.

For example (technical specifications) : - Apply a "Prevent Death" effect for n seconds - The Prevent Death effect is removed under 5% health (this should still prevent 1 attack from killing the target) - May apply a triggered shield effect for the same n seconds - The trigger of the shield effect is being under 5% health - The shield effect x+y*PL points for z sec (as per @Powerotti suggestion) To be checked : do shields negate DoT damages ? Self damages such as Blood Sacrifice ? Feel free to discuss all the values above. There should be a version for BDD and another one for Shieldbearers Lays on Hand. I think the durations should be a bit higher than with current versions. I think it is unecessary for Potion of the final Stand cause Potions are limited by themselves. I think it is unecessary for Tier 7 priest Resurrection cause it implies having taken a wound. The best thing with this solution is that it synergizes quite well with Death Godlikes.

The barrier part is a good idea ! Not a single target heal ! The "purge itself when triggered" has the same problem as above : what do you call "one use" since there is no in-game effect to detect that a source of damages would have been fatal ? This is a very technical question but we won't be able to go further until it is solved. A near death activated shield could work. Maybe with a prevent death effect that works until near death.

No, the Fire Stag has an activable attack with 2 effects : Fire AoE and Destroy self. They are separated effects, that's why the explosion still happens even if BDD prevents the Destroy part. There is no "trigger" for the AoE (unless one uses Balance Polishing Mod of course then it triggers on Death)

Yeah fatigue should happen when the potion is drunk, not at the end of encounter If you don't mind to do it, feel free to do so.

It's an hard-coded effect called "prevent death". It's an all-or-nothing effect (no parameters apart duration) that basically prevents health from going below 1. Also auto-rez would get one wounded 100% of time. The wound is not part of the effect but because you have been knocked first. Also there is no effect in the game that cures 1 wound, only effects that cure all the wounds (such as potion of Luminous Adra). So not possible to generate a wound from knock-down and cures it 50% of time because of barring death door. The idea would be to keep the "prevent death" part so it would prevent knockdown anyway, but implement an additional side-effects that trigger when health is already below 5% and damaged (or whatever percentage... could also be 25% so it is in line with Near Death definition but in that case it coud happen witj a significant health total). That in the case you describe, you would be saved from death, stay at 1 health and get no side-effect. But the next damages taken will be very likely to trigger side-effects. Yeah, if at 4% and taking 1% damages, the side effects could trigger even if damages would not have been fatal. As I said, this solution isn't perfect. I think it would not proc with DoT ticks but probably with pulse ticks such as chillfog. Other note : we should keep in mind that Prevent Death might be the effect that keeps Death Godlike manageable. Without it (or with a complete rework), their special might become a bit too much tedious to use.

Anyway, I like the concept of drawing Berath's attention when you keep getting knock-knock-knocked on her door. (leaving apart the Deathguard part) I'm only concerned about the mechanic being too complicated, but let's see where it goes It would give a drawback to Shielbearer LoH so I don't like it Also it does nothing to prevent the broken part of BDD which is the potential invincibility. That's why I don't see it as the bulk of the tweak. Once more : this effect does not exist. At 0 health, you're knocked out. BDD keeps you at 1 health. The actual effect has to be worded such as "when taking damages under 5% health" or something like that if someone finds a better alternative. As a general note : if an effect does not exist somewhere in the existing abilities, it probably does not exist in the hardcode. And I'm concerned it can be cheesed using a lvl1 henchman with so few health that 1 health is still above 5% (which mean he can tank easily for the party). That's why I'm not a fan of such solutions. They might be good but one should try to express them in a technically feasible way (wo actual drawbacks are easier to spot). Some Vampire with cleric in their party I think. Not that many cases though.

Proposal 3 : could also be an auto resurrection upon death. Easy to implement and pretty safe from combo. Becoming a Deathguard is an honour for Breath's faithful servants, not a punishment for trying to trick her. I would not super fond of a single target Watchful presence effect. It would also make priest a bit too good as single target healer, which they are not at the moment.

Very good thread idea. An important thing to note is that Shieldbearer gets an equivalent ability. This is an auto upgrade of Lay on Hand so is meant to be a strict improvement from base Lay on Hand. I think both abilities shall get a similar fix. "every time fatal damages happens" is tricky to code. A %health threshold combined with "on damaged" event could do the trick. Wouldn't work on DoT but could be close enough. I'm not sure about adding Wounds. It would make the ability crappy. Maybe with a %chance to happen ? Proposal 1 : 10% chances of getting a wound when damaged under 5% health. Proposal 2 : -4s duration of Prevent Death effect when damaged under 5% health. Both could require a small upgrade to Base duration.

I think it's not a bad idea, in order to provide a drawback for using the potion and limit its common use. I agree with Boeroer that a non-random fatigue would suit better, especially fluff-wise. I'm not sure about asking Noqn to implement it for the initial release, but it's probably a good possible nerf if needed

I tried to copy the way ward worked but it didn't work. I don't know what is happening but I think I tried enough. The only difference is that the familiar checks if the target is the conjurer. It might mess up with hardcode or something. I will implement a dirty duration on the effect to limit the consequences. The duration won't match exactly but will be better than nothing. Maybe someone else will find a better way but I personnally give up on this one Actually the effect is purged in a correct way when the familiar is killed. It's only if it stays alive the whole duration that it persists.

Distilled brains

Here is an infinite version of the cycling Brilliant. It required a special effect to clean up the remaining pseudo-period triggered from ticks (pseudo-perdio triggered from initial effect cleans up automatically when Brilliant is ellapsed, but not the ones triggered by the 18s ticks) : gn.brilliant_nerf_tweak.gamedatabundle @Noqn : basing Potion of Enlightenment on Vithrack brain wasn't the wisest decision to motivate my wife to translate the description into Polish...

Yeah it's true for all upgraded abilities bar Leap upgrades and Mule kick for some buggy reasons. I personally handled it by giving it interruption Graze. Near instant interrupt on Graze in an AoE with additional effect sounded good enough.

There's something weird about PEN then. It should get +3 by default as a Tier 7 and scale as a Tier 5 since upgraded abilities win on both side.

Restartitis is always chronic by definition