peddroelm

Very not true if your weapon attacks fast.. (like faster than every 3 seconds.. Or is not a blunderbuss ..Or you don't switch target after every attack) It doesn't stack with itself from multiple applications, it resets duration .. here's a blunder buss shot 2 graze/2 hit/ 2crit ( penetrating shot would've added 4*6 =24 damage strait up on weapon hit ) //blunderbuss pellet shots damage to health after armor DR +0 ms |Health Damage 0.979370 +5 ms |Health Damage 2.161896 +4 ms |Health Damage 1.174561 +6 ms |Health Damage 2.117401 +3 ms |Health Damage 2.148376 +5 ms |Health Damage 2.186310 // deep wound DOT +61 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +2994 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3013 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3019 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +2958 ms |Health Damage 3.684784 3.81 * 5 = 19.05 total bleed damage. . Faster you attack target - much bigger win for penetrating shot .. Now if blunderbuss could've hit multiple targets .. benefit would've still been minor .

made a separate thread for debugger breakpoints based testing ( DOTs, HOTs , blunderbuss shots and any combination of the above - down to last decimal of damage value and millisecond of timing ) https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78410-proper-debugger-breakpoints-dot-hot-tests/

here's a quick attack speed measuring test using my patented break point test method Monk - 2 weapon style - dual fist - 19 DEX - for attack speed (damage inflicted irrelevant for this thread - but the delays before attacks "measure" attack speed ).. +0 ms |Health Damage 11.332977 +1018 ms |Health Damage 19.631348 +916 ms |Health Damage 11.370148 +1039 ms |Health Damage 10.968414 +1005 ms |Health Damage 4.430481 +1033 ms |Health Damage 7.485748 +1021 ms |Health Damage 19.314636 +1004 ms |Health Damage 6.898499 +966 ms |Health Damage 9.861145 +994 ms |Health Damage 11.060150 +1064 ms |Health Damage 10.717163 +1005 ms |Health Damage 9.395050 +943 ms |Health Damage 6.106934 +971 ms |Health Damage 2.704590 +924 ms |Health Damage 17.065369 +961 ms |Health Damage 9.399628 +935 ms |Health Damage 9.286469 +1003 ms |Health Damage 18.605988 +914 ms |Health Damage 16.781799 +1000 ms |Health Damage 17.733490

here's what I'm talking about .. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78410-proper-debugger-breakpoints-dot-hot-tests/ 1 crit .. 14 int +0 ms |Health Damage 13.436005 // weapon damage +37 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 // deep wounds tick +4136 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3019 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3022 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +2914 ms |Health Damage 3.701813 autoattack (did not use constant damage weapon to easily tell "weapon" damage from DOT tick - time constraint - need to get ready for work , but as seen above monk attacks are ~1 second apart ) .. Green has "weapon" attacks , white is deep wound damage tick (still rough-fully 3 seconds apart - so just timer reset).. +0 ms |Health Damage 10.911011 +42 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +968 ms |Health Damage 12.526215 +974 ms |Health Damage 9.294891 +972 ms |Health Damage 9.543121 +111 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +820 ms |Health Damage 11.438995 +1029 ms |Health Damage 12.420380 +967 ms |Health Damage 7.009613 +197 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +823 ms |Health Damage 6.567352 +938 ms |Health Damage 16.045258 +1004 ms |Health Damage 15.352783 +262 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +718 ms |Health Damage 10.852905 +6957 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3083 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3003 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +3014 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 Still need to make sure char level// attribute scores don't influence the damage inflicted ..

Bringing out the big (testing guns) .. Made the first test run to make sure I have all the tools in place.. Hopefully during this weekend I will be able to Properly test various DOT/HOT abilities (amounts inflicted with maximum precision (float numbers) and timings (down to milliseconds) ).. Will be able me accurately measure multiple DOTs/HOTs running in parallel .. The timing down to millisecond part might might actually be more accurate for measuring attack speeds than frame by frame analysis (we'll see - another topic) .. Here a few test samples - actual testing to fallow later .. (10 INT ranger with estoc) Wounding shot . Ranger Wounding shot 33.3 - DR (15.0-5.0) = 23.5 pierce (Wounding shot) hits Sneaky, Hobbled (12.0 sec) +0 ms |Health Damage 23.309601 // Estoc weapon hit +38 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 // wound damage ticks +5175 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 +3024 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 +3002 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 +3005 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 +3028 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 +3016 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 +3024 ms |Health Damage 1.971191 Here's a wounding shot with Blunderbuss 1 graze, 4 hit 1 Crit // pellets hit +0 ms |Health Damage 1.780579 +9 ms |Health Damage 1.939209 +8 ms |Health Damage 1.627869 +9 ms |Health Damage 1.177551 +9 ms |Health Damage 1.967072 +13 ms |Health Damage 2.363129 //first DOT tick round (per projectile) +72 ms |Health Damage 0.493500 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.537445 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.451172 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.652710 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.654938 //3 seconds later another 6 wound damage tick +2982 ms |Health Damage 0.493500 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.537445 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.451172 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.652710 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.654938 +3022 ms |Health Damage 0.493500 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.537445 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.451172 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.652710 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.654938 +3011 ms |Health Damage 0.493500 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.537445 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.451172 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.654938 +3022 ms |Health Damage 0.493500 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.537445 +1 ms |Health Damage 0.451172 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +0 ms |Health Damage 0.654938 //3 dots expired quicker +3005 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +3005 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 +3069 ms |Health Damage 0.363464 Monk - 2 weapon style - dual fist - 19 DEX - for attack speed +0 ms |Health Damage 11.332977 +1018 ms |Health Damage 19.631348 +916 ms |Health Damage 11.370148 +1039 ms |Health Damage 10.968414 +1005 ms |Health Damage 4.430481 +1033 ms |Health Damage 7.485748 +1021 ms |Health Damage 19.314636 +1004 ms |Health Damage 6.898499 +966 ms |Health Damage 9.861145 +994 ms |Health Damage 11.060150 +1064 ms |Health Damage 10.717163 +1005 ms |Health Damage 9.395050 +943 ms |Health Damage 6.106934 +971 ms |Health Damage 2.704590 +924 ms |Health Damage 17.065369 +961 ms |Health Damage 9.399628 +935 ms |Health Damage 9.286469 +1003 ms |Health Damage 18.605988 +914 ms |Health Damage 16.781799 +1000 ms |Health Damage 17.733490 Deep wounds + Wounding shot (2 chars in paralel) +0 ms |Health Damage 13.950195 // ranger estoc wounding shot weapon hit +39 ms |Health Damage 2.277130 +2120 ms |Health Damage 4.253906 // monk with consoled deep wounds , fist hit +33 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +849 ms |Health Damage 2.277130 +2151 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +870 ms |Health Damage 2.277130 +2133 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +895 ms |Health Damage 2.277130 +2121 ms |Health Damage 3.810822 +889 ms |Health Damage 2.277130 +2069 ms |Health Damage 3.756958 // 3.81 is deep wound damage tick, 2.277.. was wounding shot damage tick .. The ran in parallel for the duration . //Paladin Flames of devotion with flaming weapon +0 ms |Health Damage 19.305084 // Surprisingly the summed weapon + lash damage is applied (subtracted) at the same time to target's health testing methodology https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq59wttu2Po

empty promises .. Valiant effort but very far from "proper" test .. Especially the healparty part and reading health as a Rounded integer value ...Hard for me to explain to you exactly in English why this is so wrong (not native speaker) .. Health and Endurance are float variables (real numbers) not integers ... I'll try to explain (using made up numbers until a do the proper test) .. Say 1 time damage per tick is 3.51 -> game rounds to 4 - you "see" 4 damage .. 4 * 5 ticks = 20 actual ability damage 3.51 * 5 = 17.55 or it could be 4.49 -> game would still round to 4 again for you "nothing" changed 4* 5 =20 when in fact this time the ability did 22.45 .. I do intend to this test properly using breakpoints and tracking the health/endurance values without massive rounding errors your "measurements" had ..

Actually at the shot glance I took towards it I can attest with 100% certainty that is does cause a DOT effect on target .. (at least it did the few 2-3 times I tried it with men editor - had access to test char health variable - it was loosing health in ticks ) . I do intend to determine exactly how much and at what time intervals for both this and other DOT abilities, at some later date ..

Weeellll..... I did post this thread before you posted that post... But your contributions to our understanding of the game mechanics are indisputable, for sure. I'm just being a bit of a pedantic ass. pendantic assery challange accepted Posted 21 April 2015 - 11:43 AMhttp://forums.obsidian.net/topic/72272-combat-mechanics-attack-speed-recovery/?p=1669655 Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:24 PM http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/77154-does-secondary-elemental-damage-ignore-elemental-damage-reduction/?p=1669704 this thread started Posted 21 April 2015 - 05:38 PM

added wildstrike belt on druit test to totest list ..

Time for the thread disclaimer .. My tests focus 99.99% of the time on what is easily observable and precisely measurable -> damage inflicted on target .. So to answer your questions specifically . I don't know .. 1. I've read somewhere that hit quality upgrade is a single time deal - impossible for graze to upgrade twice and get to be a crit ... (hearsay but makes sense) 2. Beastslayer the ability/talent is not lash - is damage multiplier like might bonus.. Beastslayer as weapon enchantment I did not test yet (added to todo list) .. Have not personalty seen any case during my tests for any lash to get suppressed by another .. Will keep an eye out of it .. If you have a specific test you could suggest I will do it . (try this weapon + this ability + and such and such vs this type of monster - this I can do as it is a "damage test")

It looks like it's scaling with might. 20*1.33=26.6. Not scaling with blooded is odd though. I seriously doubt it scales with anything .. I will test again when I get the chance (10+ hours) with 50 / 100 might ..

managed to do some tests on this .. It adds precisely 26.6 20 * ( 1 + mightmod) damage per hit .. Not 20 . http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-abilities-various-other-damage-related-mechanics-revealed/?do=findComment&comment=1671709

Thank you for your constructive contribution to this discussion. my contribution to this thread has been significant, since it was this post http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-abilities-various-other-damage-related-mechanics-revealed/?do=findComment&comment=1670860 that triggered this thread in the first place ..

and suddenly I get a glimpse of understanding of why DEVs might sometimes want to keep some mechanics hidden .. The can of worms.. - Why isn't purple ? Why is it round ? - No it obviously should be square with pink spots on the edges ! - Nonsense - it clearly should have 5 layers of lace veils ! Don't you guys understand logic ? - More axels !! It needs more axels - its so painfully obvious - at least 5 or 7 more axels .. .. ... .....

try "marking prey" the target first for a surprise .. you big damage number's lover ..

Quick Driving Flight test (poor Man's carnage ).. Secondary hit has a -6 accuracy , -50% damage mod.. The secondary shot uses same damage mods as main weapon , lash enchantment , etc .. This can easily double or more damage per shot (if main graze && secondary hits // main hits && secondary crits // main graze && secondary crits) But will not work so great with low damage per projectile weapons on POTD due to DR issues (blunderbuss , bows ..) 20 damage Arbalest.. 36% might bonus.. 20 * (1 + 0.36) = 27.2 // hit , main attack before DR 20 * (1 + 0.36 - 0.5) = 17.2 // graze, main attack before DR 20 * (1 + 0.36 - 0.5) = 17.2 // hit secondary before DR 20 * (1 + 0.36 - 0.5 - 0.5) = 7.2 // graze secondary before DR And with beast slayer vs 2 bears 20 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.25 ) = 32.2 // hit main 20 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) = 22.2 // hit secondary

here http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-damage-roll-rng-begone/?do=findComment&comment=1671528

addability ..onestandsalone 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 42.4 // hit 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 37.4 // graze 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 34 // carnage graze Change weapon's base damage to 20 .. Add extra effect chanter debuff -0.1 (dull blade bla bla) 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 + 1 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 76.2 // crit 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 - 0.34 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 49.4 //carnage hit 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 39.4 //carnage graze // kill the enemy chanter (no more -0.1 debuff) 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 48.2 //graze 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 51.4 //carnage hit 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 41.4 //carnage graze TLDR When active OSA adds 26.6 20 * (1 + might mod ) damage per connecting (graze, hit , crit) attack/carnage .. Equipped weapon stats//damage mods not directly relevant .. Ver 1.04

One stands alone adds 26.6 20 * (1 + might mod) damage per hit .. Barbaric Blow test .. 10 damage BattleAxe. 33% Might bonus. 25% blooded bonus. -34% carnage bonus (for carnage) . 150 % bonus for crit ( 0.5 + 0.5 (BA) + 0.5 barbaric blow) .. The 50% extra crit damage bonus applies to all carnage crits not only the ones elevated by barbaric blow.. Blooded damage bonus works for carnage hits as expected .. 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 ) = 15.8 // hit normal attack damage before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) = 10.8 // graze normal attack damage before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 ) = 12.4 // carnage hit before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) = 7.4 // carnage graze before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 + 1.5 ) = 27.4 // carnage crit with BB bonus before DR addability ..onestandsalone 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 42.4 // hit 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 37.4 // graze 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 34 // carnage graze Change weapon's base damage to 20 .. Add extra effect chanter debuff -0.1 (dull blade bla bla) 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 + 1 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 76.2 // crit 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 - 0.34 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 49.4 //carnage hit 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 39.4 //carnage graze // kill the enemy chanter (no more -0.1 debuff) 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 48.2 //graze 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 51.4 //carnage hit 20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 41.4 //carnage graze TLDR When active OSA adds 26.6 20 * (1 + damagemod) damage per connecting (graze, hit , crit) attack/carnage .. Equipped weapon stats//damage mods not directly relevant ..

Barbaric Blow test .. 10 damage BattleAxe. 33% Might bonus. 25% blooded bonus. -34% carnage bonus (for carnage) . 150 % bonus for crit ( 0.5 + 0.5 (BA) + 0.5 barbaric blow) .. The 50% extra crit damage bonus applies to all carnage crits not only the ones elevated by barbaric blow.. Blooded damage bonus works for carnage hits as expected .. 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 ) = 15.8 // hit normal attack damage before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) = 10.8 // graze normal attack damage before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 ) = 12.4 // carnage hit before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) = 7.4 // carnage graze before DR 10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 + 1.5 ) = 27.4 // carnage crit with BB bonus before DR

Copperlane cattacombs - have one lousy archer ( some white bow with low armor penetration/damage per hit ) initiate combat on immobile Dank Spore.. Have your other characters beat on each other "during combat" .. Great for testing "combat only" abilities those dank spores ..

few damage tests on ranger animal companions.. wolf gets 13-19 base damage (pierce) .. rest of them 11-17 base damage (pierce) .. (source game files and a few quick test to check ingame ).. Don't know about attack speeds ..Maybe all same as 2h weapon ? The ranger perks that increase the damage Animal Companions do work of those base values .. Bear starts game at 11 DR (think rest start with 9) .. At lvl 12 ranger adds +4.5 DR to AC.. And could sink a perk for another +3 DR.. So that would be 18.5 DR before other buffs.. Not sure how durable he will be on POTD .. Probable not very ..

Few tests with druid shapeshift - basically uber monks .. They have 16-25 !!! base damage per paw/claw (and bypass 5 DR by default - EAT IT estocs ) ( monks are 10-15 and receive some flat extra as they level , 2h weapons are 14-20).. Didn't check attack speed .. Weapon Focus Peasant adds +6 accuracy.. Biggest problem for shape shifting early game is lack of accuracy .. (hit like a truck, miss the barn sitting in front of you, repeatedly) .. Is kind of hard to make optimal use of uber claws.. (hard to add damage modifiers on druid) High might, savage attack, human shape-shifting at low endurance with fighting spirit on..Because of the huge base damage the 25% vs beasts/ghosts/etc talents would work really well.. .. Accuracy boosts (potion/ paladin/..) . Dual weapon fighting - dual spears when not shapeshifted .. Probably not worth focusing too much on shape-shift / melee druid since it lasts so little .. But there is some potential .. And (30% + 15% + belt) wildstrike lash (multiplicative) damage .. These things might topple dragons (assuming they get the accuracy to land the hits somehow) ..

another vote for BUG .. Druid shapeshift forms can attack with bear paws or .. a pair of human fists ..

all the time, of course.