peddroelm

Did some tests on Confident Aim.. Works as advertised ( changes min weapon damage stat *1.2 before RNG damage roll happens on the new smaller interval ) .. Works for ranged weapons too .. Will turn 2h weapon base damage range from 14-20 to 16.8-20 .. Arquebus from 24-36 to 28.8-36 .. Used 10-12.1 Battle Axe, no damage bonus char .. observed hit damage in (10*1.2 - 12.1) interval as expected .. added 270% damage bonus and hit damage again was as expected in 44.4 - 44.77 range .. (10*1.2) * (1 + 2.7) = 44.4 12.1 * (1 + 2.7)= 44.77

>>One handed style while holding a shield works with weapons but not fists. "While wielding a single one-handed melee weapon, 20% of the attacker's Grazes are converted to Hits." If one doesn't consider fists one-handed melee weapons, then it seems everything works as designed.. Curious about how 1h style + flail + confident aim works (with shield in off hand) .. 70% Grazes -> Hits ? ..

It effectively grants a free weapon slot to unarmed monks .. Wouldn't you/everybody cry exploit if anybody used memory editor/console to grant an extra weapon slot on any other char ? ////////// I will use as a feature until/if ever confirmed as bug/exploit by a DEV. My conscience rests easy having reported the potential issue ..

i like your justification, but Dev confirming would be even better

Thin Ranger can actually do it with Pet and appropriate talent. http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Stalkers%27_Link

Title says it .. Game allows chars to switch to double fist even if all their weapons groups are occupied .. Example weapon + shield slot 1, double spear slot 2.. And monks can still kick ass with their bare fists with both weapon slots "taken" .. DEV input required Feature ? (go monks!)/Bug ?/Exploit ?

(brought this here to have all my mechanics test results in the same thread - even if not all of them make use of no damage RNG roll removal) Lash effect (weapon elemental lash enchantments 25%, marked prey 40%, torment's reach 50% on main attack, turning wheel 5%/wound, lightning strikes 10%, flames of devotion 50%, intense flames 25%, wildstrike , etc ..) Every lash effect goes against 0.25 *Target's DR of the appropriate type, separately.. Weapon DR Bypass does not apply for lash damage (dev confirmed) Fun with 2h handed monk and lash multipliers .. Damage multiplier 1 + 0.27 (might) + 0.15 (fine weapon) + 0.15 (two handed weapon) + 0.2 (savage attack) 25% corrosion Ex 1 hit vs Troll DR 8 (16 crush 4 fire,corrode) .. 2 handed staff of corrosion .. 32.2 - DR (16.0)= 16.2 Crush + 12.1 Crush + 13.5 Burn + 1.2 Shock + 7 Corrode = 50 lash ("multiplicative") damage 32.2 * 0.5 - 16*0.25 =12.1 // 50% crush Torments reach 32.2 * ( 0.05 * 9) - 4*0.25 = 13.49 // 9 tuning wheel wounds 32.2 * 0.1 - 8*0.25 = 1.22 // lightning strikes (sucks) 32.2 * 0.25 - 4*0.25 = 7.05 // 25% corrode on staff Ex 2 crit vs Sporeling 7 (14 crush, 3.5 corrode) 2 handed staff of corrosion 37.6 - DR (14.0) = 23.6 Crush + 15.3 Crush + 15.2 Burn + 2 Shock + 8.5 Corrode = 65 lash ("multiplicative") damage 37.6 * 0.5 - 14 * 0.25 = 15.3 // 50% torments reach 37.6 * (0.05*9) - 7 * 0.25 = 15.17 // 9 turning wheel wounds 37.6 * 0.1 - 7 * 0.25 = 2.01 // lightning strikes (still sucks) 37.6 * 0.25 - 3.5 * 0.25 = 8.525 // 25% corrode on staff Marked Prey example 1 (40% lash) Warhammer vs Drake (marked prey debuff) . pierce DR 13.5 , crush DR 18.. 21 - DR (13.5) = 7.5 Pierce + 3.9 Crush! Here's how the marked prey lash damage is calculated .. 21 * 0.4 - TargetDR * 0.25.. You'd expect warhammer to pick the pierce DR (lower) and thus get 21 * 0.4 - 13.5*0.25 = 5.025 .. Instead, for some oversight, game picks target's crush DR (which was higher than pierce DR) 21 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25 = 3.9 as shown in combat log Marked Prey example 2 Market target Estoc (5 DR bypass) vs 18 Pierce DR Market target 23.2 - DR (18.0-5.0)= 10.2 Pierce + 4.8 Pierce 23.2 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25= 4.78 Had the DR bypass effect of the Estoc affected the lash damage the bonus damage should've been 23.2*0.4- (18-5)*0.25 = 6.03 /// code tags have combat log lines

even better than console "healparty" .. You don't even have to bother typing it all the time ..

Messed a bit with Retaliation attacks.. Preliminary tests (Sanguine Plate) show that they are autohit (no toHIT roll - no miss/no graze/no crit/always hit), and like Torment's Reach AOE attacks use a magic weapon, with 10-15 base damage, piercing damage type (so equipped weapon has no influence on the retaliation attacks damage/effects) .. Damage modifiers (might, savage attacks, etc) work as with any other "weapon" attack ..

I think setting Monk Endurance to set value during test and might just add the number of wounds required for test (via console or memory editor) .. Then you'll probably need the order queue to hold 10 actions (doubt its this long // or give already activated error) and shiftqueue all ten attacks during pause vs friendly that won't retaliate and interrupt your monk.. Record and un-pause .. Triggering them by hand during realtime might lead to human error.. Eventually to the test with no 2 handed weapon mastery, no swift strikes 3 DEX char on slow speed to have the time to manually activate the attacks.. This would only (possibly) show that weapon attack speed is a factor - not precisely how big of a factor on the character build for maximum speed (very likely small enough for the sabres other advantages (unique enchantments//lash damage vs melee target) to trump it) ..

My "feel" is that dual fist will "unload" 10 torments reach worth of wounds faster than using a 2 handed weapons , so - that would mean weapon attack speed matters and that fist would be "slightly" faster at unloading torments than dual sabres .. But ATM is just a subjective feel .. Might try some frame analysis test at some point ..

Seems logical enough to me .. It comes as a great surprise to me that it doesn't for so many people .. Logic is subjective/relative ..

plausible but not in the immediate future

there ya go http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-damage-roll-rng-begone/

Torment's reach AOE hits don't use the equipped weapon for damage calculation .. They use their own weapon 15-25 which is better than even 2h weapons.. So yeah they will do more damage if dual wielding 2 base, white enchanted daggers than if using 2 top of the line , but slower striking sabres .. I wasn't asking - I was saying .. Reading comprehension ..

So... are abilities like Lightning Strikes (10% of damage vs 25% of DR) intended to be utterly worthless? I'm sorry... that just doesn't make sense.. You should make a thread complaining about how much that ability sucks (trust me vs 10% lightning DR won't help it suck any less) ..It has other issues .. ( minor damage buff that costs wounds and lasts limited amounts of time ) .. Even vs 0% enemy lightning DR and would still be next to worthless ..

Full attack (meaning triggered twice/wound when dual wielding) Adds 50% crush lash damage (multiplicative) (vs 25% target crush defense) to the weapon hit (melee range).. AND Extra hits to targets in cone AOE.. ( "spell accuracy" toHIT VS TARGET REFLEX NOT DEFLECTION ).. Those extra hits use (according to game files and some ingame checks) 15-25 base damage for calculation [Not the equipped weapon/fist] as crush damage vs target 100% crush DR (potential pitfall) .. (let me remind you here regular 2h weapons have 14-20 base damage).. Damage mods apply as usual (check it with 100 Might - did ~86 damage 1 hit ) .. They do NOT apply turning wheel, lightning strikes lash damage .. TLDR - How do milk most damage out of this ability.. Fastest attack possible and dual wield (2 torment's/wound) - think dual fist, Max DEX with dual weapon spec, swift strikes, no armor ( frame dudes might have something to say about possible breakpoints) ..Stack damage mods (might, savage attack, ..etc) What you get is fastest attack speed in the game hitting with base damage higher than 2h weapons base damage.. Assuming you can stay alive while receiving wounds and positioning enemies in kill cone .. Small feature/exploit/bug (DEV Has spoketh) - pointed out in thread - all classes can use dual fist in combat even if all their weapon slots are occupied with weapons .. Monks - main/only benefiters of this of course .. (Ex tank with weapon shield, switch to double fist to unload torments ..)

Decided to check Torments Reach extra hits damage.. Was expecting them to scale with weapon damage like carnage .. Wrong.. Torments Reach additional hits past the melee target don't use equipped weapon's stats for calculation .. Upped my battle axe to do 100 base damage - torment's subsequent hits average damage did not go up .. Digging trough game-files it would seem torments reach uses 15-25 base damage weapon for damage calculations ( better than 2 handed weapons ) (for the extra hits behind target) .. Next I upped my monk's Might to 100 and check torment's damage . .Went up (~ 86 on hit) .. Conclusion , perhaps a bit rushed.. Best way to milk most damage of torments reach subsequent hits is to use fastest attack possible (think dual fist, dual weapon skill, no armor, and stack damage mods) .. You might not do that much damage per swing to the target in front of you (melee target) but torment's extra hits behind will hit fast & hard (but always and only crush damage) .. Dual weapons will apply this 2h based damage twice per wound with high attack rate ..

there is already a thread on this on first page even, with dev response saying it works as designed .. Why new thread ?

Then why is Flames of Devotion with Intense Flames using 1/2 of the enemy's fire DR? don't think it does .. A being FoD fire damage, B being IF fire damage .. A - 0.25 * FireDR + B -0.25 * FireDR = A + B - 0.5 * FireDR // they only show the result (total fire damage past DR) .. No contradiction .. Would need debugger break-point testing to check if damage is subtracted twice or once in this case (same end result either way )..

it "works" as in it adds the damage (tested normal attack, 99% works for carnage - will test for sure later) .. But similar to fighting spirit - it doesn't show up in the LCS .. see test thread http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-damage-roll-rng-begone/

Tested Fighting Spirit. To my surprise - even if the "Lying Character screen" (LCS for diablo veterans) doesn't display the damage bonus..(it does display the accuracy bonus) the damage gets added (if the combat log is to be believed).. Still the inconstancy between showing the temporary accuracy bonus on char screen and NOT showing the damage component remains . Calisca (human) 21% might bonus. Used 10-10 base damage Battle Axe for test to eliminate damage roll RNG .. 10 * (1 + 0.21) = 12.1 // hit normal damage (before DR) 10 * (1 + 0.21 - 0.5) = 7.1 // graze damage normal attack (before DR) Calisca activates fighting spirit .// (character screen still displays damage range 12-12 . But accuracy goes up by 7 ) 10 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.15 - 0.5) = 8.6 // graze damage (with fighting spirit 15% bonus) normal attack (before DR) Will test "blooded" later .

Tested Fighting Spirit. To my surprise - even if the "Lying Character screen" (LCS for diablo veterans) doesn't display the damage bonus..(it does display the accuracy bonus) the damage gets added (if the combat log is to be believed).. Calisca (human) 21% might bonus . 10 * (1 + 0.21) = 12.1 // hit normal damage (before DR) 10 * (1 + 0.21 - 0.5) = 7.1 // graze damage normal attack (before DR) Calisca activates fighting spirit .// (character screen still displays damage range 12-12 . But accuracy goes up by 7 ) 10 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.15 - 0.5) = 8.6 // graze damage (with fighting spirit 15% bonus) normal attack (before DR) Blooded test . (adds the 25% damage , doesn't show it in LCS) addability Companion_Calisca(Clone)_1 Calisca was granted blooded. Calisca activates blooded .. Calisca hits Xaurip for 12 slash damage 16.1 - DR (4.0) = 12.1 slash 10* (1 + 0.21 + 0.15 + 0.25 ) = 16.1

You're doing nothing to help this discussion. Also, you are misinterpreting the words you are quoting. Yes, there is consistency in always applying 25% of the appropriate DR to all lash damage. There is also inconsistency in it, in that the percentage of damage reduction applied to lash damage does not scale based on the percentage of damage the lash does. That is the inconsistency that this thread was created to discuss. So, while you are correct that there is also a consistency that exists, it is proximal to but not the same as the actual problem. Of all the actual bugs that exist in this game, why focus on Nerfing an ability (and (arguable weak) classes that make use of it) for the sake of making it "be more consistent in another, arbitrary way" .. Developer time is limited.. Wouldn't you rather have them work on stuff that is truly broken ? You "fix" this (keep in mind its currently "working as designed" - mind the dev post in thread) and then you must re-balance a few classes and abilities around it.. Priorities ..

fist result of this.. Carnage damage modifier is -34%. And Proof that hit quality damage "multipliers" are additive .. Weapon used base 10 damage (yay) .. 42% bonus from might .. combat log Hits 14.2 - DR (4.0) = 10.2 slash 10.8 - DR (4.0) = 6.8 slash (Carnage) Grazes 9.2 - DR (4.0) = 5.2 slash 5.8 - DR (4.0) = 1.8 slash (Carnage) 10 * (1 + 0.42 ) = 14.2 // hit damage normal attack (before DR) 10 * (1 + 0.42 - 0.34) = 10.8 // hit damage carnage (before DR) 10 * (1 + 0.42 - 0.5) = 9.2 // graze damage normal attack (before DR) 10 * (1 + 0.42 - 0.5 - 0.34 ) = 5.8 //graze damage carnage (before DR) Will be able to check for sure if blooded/fighting spirit actually add any damage without displaying it in char sheet .. I will also take suggestions into what other weapon damage mechanics you want revealed ..