Shadowstrider

Games get better over time, not only in graphics, music and complexity, but also from learning from past experiences. Play an older D&D game like Eye of the Beholder, then play a game like Baldur's Gate, then move up to Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn. The games progressed, evolved, got better. No I don't. I even explained the "emotional link." Nostalgia, killer of reason. I can't replay Fallout. I hate the combat, always did. The ONLY reason I enjoyed that game was the story and freedom. Baldur's Gate I can replay from time to time, but the simplistic character development of AD&D, and the game in general hinder its staying power. One of the first "rpgs" I ever played was Chrono Trigger (which had zero roleplaying, but I digress). It is and was a great game, and it is a game with more replay value than any I have played, to date(the game had some 30 endings or something). I can't go back and play it though, because its dated. Simplistic combat, no character development, etc(sadly the Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy Series haven't advanced much in this department).

People REALLY need to stop giving into nostalgia. Frank Herbert was wrong, fear isn't the mind-killer. Nostalgia is. Yeah! Games with less gameplay dynamic than Eye of the Beholder or King's Quest were AWESOME! I mean... you could negotiate simplistic dungeons with simplistic puzzles, and if you encountered simplistic creatures you could employ simplistic combat to kill them! Games have gotten better over time. I played Wing Commander II the other day (oldest game I could get to run), then played Wing Commander IV. Guess what. It got better. Mech Warrior I managed to get working, then played Mech Warrior IV, it got better. I owned a Commodore 64, and one day a few years ago I tried to go back and play them. It didn't last long because those games don't hold a candle to the new games. I would rather play PoRII than anything on the Commodore 64. Games seem to be like wine to some people, they get better with age. If only that were true. P.S. My answer was other, because I like good games... no era. Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, Planescape: Torment, Splinter Cell, Street Fighter.

Yeah, thats why. If clothes cost less money people would still steal them. If food cost less money people would still steal it. If jewelry cost less money people would still steal it. If music cost less money people would still steal it. I have never downloaded an MP3 off the web unless if was officially sanctioned, i.e. music off the publisher or artist's website. I should also point out the GLARING hole in your logic. How do you put a price on someone else creative work? Do you know how much work went into writing it, playing it, getting it published? Opinion. Music isn't bad simply because you say its bad. YOU might not like it, others might love it. I don't buy into this "CDs cost too much" nonesense. Most of filesharing comes from people with no financial responsibilities anyway, like high-school students, or people with few financial responsibilities, like college students (This is a generalization, obviously. Yes there are some high school and college students who have financial responsibilities, but they are few and far between. Most students think they have responsibility until they have to get a job and move into the real world). People fence music because it is more convenient and free. Even when file-sharing charge monthly usage, or "per song pricing" you see users drop off. They go in search of another free source. "Why pay for something you can get for free" is the selfish logic. Its called stealing.

City of Heroes, on Virtue server.

Patriots will win. Jesus will lose.

I thought IWD2 lived up to my expectectations. A 3rd edition D&D adventure game using 5 year old technology. The music wasn't as good as IWD1, but still better than the music in a LOT of games. The voice talent was excellent as well. The graphics stunk... big deal, I don't really care about graphics. The only graphics that mattered to me, IWD2 had, jawesome portraits and area maps. The customizable interface was an excellent addition. The dialog options in that game were better than 90% of the dialog options in any RPG to date. Personally I liked the Fellwood/wandering village. Reminded me of the Lost Woods from Legend of Zelda a bit too much, but still fun. The only areas I did not enjoy in that game were the glacial temple or Auril, Dragon's Eye and Chult, and that was because I encountered the most bugs with these areas and got frustrated. Of all the IE games, the gameplay in IWD2 was my favorite. The story, I could tell, seemed to be a lead in to something. When playing IWD2 I felt, throughout the whole game, like I was playing a prologue. A long, epic prologue, but a prologue none-the-less. My opinion and I'm sticking to it.

In an ideal world I would like the workbench to reflect all my NPCs and their skills, BUT, you wouldn't be "assigned" NPCs to work with, instead you would have to pick and choose your NPCs, and each NPC would have something to add to the game/party, rather than having different personalities with the same skills and powers. Everytime you exlcuded a party member you would miss out on something in the game. Unfortunately in KotOR2 this isn't the case, and you essentially have the same party members, with one or two exceptions. So yes, I'd like to see the workbench fixed to make your characters stats matter.

Don't follow. If you have a rapier (18-20) that is keen (15-20) and improved critical the threat is 12-20. Do you mean critical damage multipliers stack like that? Sure, but that has nothing to do with keen.

Weapon threat range is the same as critical threat range. If it is 19-20 that is the threat range. Critical multiplier is how many dice are rolled when you score a critical hit. In the above I said you would roll 2d6 if your normal damage is 1d6. In actuallity it depends on your critical multiplier. So if your multiplier is x3 you recieve 3d6. Critical hit attack modifier I don't know that one.

Mine was around was 43+ with my jedi consular.

Critical threat is the number needed on a 20-sided die to score a critical threat.. When you roll a succesful critical threat, you then roll a second 20-sided die. So if the critical threat of your lightsaber is 19-20 you must roll a 19 or 20 for a threat roll. In order for a critical threat to be a critical hit your threat roll must outright beat the defense(AC) of your foe. Example: Your Attack Bonus: 15 Your critical threat chance: 19-20 Enemy AC: 30 On your attack you roll a 19(roll)+15(attack bonus) which equals 34. This is automatically hits your foe. You must then roll your threat roll. Your threat roll plus your attack bonus must be greater than or equal to the enemy AC. So your threat roll could be as low as 15 and be a succesful critical hit(if the roll was 15 and your attack bonus is 15, your total is 30). Keen doubles the ORIGINAL critical threat of the weapon. So if your weapon had a threat range of 20 it would be 19-20. If it was 19-20 it becomes 17-20. Massive criticals increases the damage dealt on a critical hit. Normally a critical hit is your damage roll twice (meaning if your damage is 1d6 you roll 2d6). If you have massive criticals +1 you would roll your damage twice and add 1 point to the total. So if you normally roll 1d6, you would roll 2d6 and add 1.

I am getting a defense bonus from speed powers. I ca't test the others, since I don't have them.

Logic and volourn don't belong in the same sentence. The logic is quite simple. "Why make a story about someone elses b-grade NPCs when we can make our own stories?"

I actually don't know who or what you're talking about. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's talking about To the OG poster. I felt the same way you did, but as you play the game some more you will learn to appreciate it as I did. I'll be going through for my 5th time and it will be the first DS game I play. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never got this cut scene. In fact I never saw that NPC.

. . . and still the insults and holier-than-thou attitude. I would gladly go fact for fact with you, especially considering you have presented almost none. I replied to your ENTIRE message, quote by quote. The best you gave was "and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all." My facts are severly lacking in facts? Oh you mean like your comment about how the game has only "run of the mill" quests? Or how, in your opinion Obsidian should've made KotOR2 about the b-grade NPCs from KotOR1, like Yuthura Ban, who is in all likelyhood dead, and wasn't even a primary point of interest in the game she was originally in. Or what about your opinion that "There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II." I have YET to see you back up a single claim with fact. I said MANY times you're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to troll about it(when you post something looking for an arguement it is called trolling).

I've suddenly lost interest in replying in this thread. Global_74's best defenses of his opinion have been "thats not true, because I say so." "and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all." "and it is very obvious that the game wasnt ready to be shipped to market." "There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II. There are plot lines that are never resolved, there are lines of dialogue THAT MAKE NO SENSE, there are lines of code that should have been re-written. if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion. " I replied to his post like I reply to anyones post when I find them full of glaringly overlooked details, with factual information from the game. What do we get in reply? His opinion without any sort of support from the game. To me its clear this post is simply made as a shot. He didn't like it and no matter what we say to point out how it does fit the SW mythos, or how the game doesn't have "lines of dialog that MAKE NO SENSE" he will continue to hold his opinion and not listen to others, all the while claiming we are "trying to curry favor" or "if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion." *Desperately looks for an ignore button*

And turns the forums into a high-school-esque popularity contest.

They couldn't give a detailed analysis of all the semi-important NPCs in KotOR1. That would have taken up the whole game. Not only that if you factor in that there were 3 VERY different outcomes with that particuliar NPC. One way you save her and she returns to the jedi. If you saved her then you could assume she was one of the jedi who is slain between KotOR1 and KotOR2(I will not spoil). Another option you side with her and strike down Uthar only to have her turn on you. You kill her. Game. Set. Match. The last option is you side with Wynn, she dies. Game. Set. Match. You're to caught up in the previous game's hype to appreciate the current game as is in my opinion. I actually don't know who or what you're talking about. This is your opinion, and it is certainly valid, though I don't see how it is "erratic." Especially any more or less erratic than the first one. Just because it followed the theorum of the other Star Wars films? It does follow a very similar path to RotJ. Sure it does. KotOR2 is the history of the old republic. This one is the tale of how the jedi were once hunted to near-extinction and their hopes and fears now rest in an exile. *Semi-spoiler* */Semi-spoiler* This is one way to look at it. Personally, just as I view KotOR1 and 2 as a history lesson of the Jedi I view it as a history lesson of the sith. What did you want to learn about the sith? Did you want to learn about their dark secrets of power? Guess what, you sort of do. We learn a bit about Naga Sadow and Kressh that we did not know before. Did you expect to get indoctrinated to sith philosophy again? Uhm... *Semi-spoilers* */Semi-spoilers* Again, your opinion and you're entitled to it. I have to ask though, you're a self-proclaimed SW fanatic. What would you say Yoda does in a story? Doesn't he provide nothing more than "cryptic babble?" Don't ALL jedi masters provide nothing but cryptic babble in the SW universe? Obi-wan Kenobi? Cryptic babbler. Qui-gon Jin? Cryptic babbler. That strange-head guy who sits in the jedi chamber? Cryptic babbler. Master Vandar? Cryptic babbler. Need I continue? The Influence function was useless, there was no stat or quantitative number that we could use to gauge its effectiveness. As for their uninteresting NPCs. I quite enjoyed Kreia, and Handmaiden. Bao-Dur was a high-point in personalities. Like all games there are highes and lows. Personally I though T3-M4 was drastically improved from the first. Personally of the two games Jolee is my favorite NPC, but Kreia and Bao-dur are close.

Assuming that "lawnmower exploration areas" are doing something right, of course. I was pleased that they were gone, since I always thought that was a dopey convention in CRPGs. Obviously this was my opinion. That was my point. We know that people didn't like the story of KotOR2. It has been expressed. I wasattempting to explain why people don't like the story, the dialogs are too complex for their own good, which lead to people skipping over or completely missing certain bits of information. At least that is my understanding.

Uhm... I don't like PoRII. Nor have I ever claimed to have liked it. Go drag another thread into a troll slug fest. Thanks. Its pretty evident in the spoiler threads that people don't get it. Pay attention.

The flaw is that the majority of gamers don't want to analyze and commit dialogs to memory. Players think in the short-term and how things effect them in the short term. This is proven across platforms, games and even genres. It is fairly evident if you read any threads with spoilers someone will say "X is never explained." I look back and I can think of at least 1-2 instances of X being explained, not only that, but how X is connected to Y, and how Y is connected to Z. *Shrugs*

Well, I haven't played the game yet, but from what I hear, some people are very positive about the ending. But what does that have to do with the fact that KotOR 2 makes the player a "part" of the story instead of "showing" it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is hard to explain without giving examples and thus spoiling it. I'll do my best. In KotOR1 you act, and immediately see some sort of repurcussion. You could easily save the game before an important decision and if you didn't like the outcome, go back. You recieved immediate gratification. In KotOR2 everything isn't so black and white. You could do something seemingly inconsequential and it could lead to a loss of influence and thus a missed oppurtunity down the line. While there is good and evil in KotOR2, there is also shades of each with small miniscule details attached. A little influence here, a little there, and suddenly Bao-Dur doesn't trust you and only travels with you to save the galaxy. In KotOR1 you kill Malak and are an instant hero recieving medals or a dark lord at the reigns of "the infinite fleet." In KotOR2 you are told what your actions did to effect the galaxy, planet by planet, ally by ally. Perhaps using "showing" to describe it was a bit over the top, but the point still stands. In KotOR2 players are forced to think about small effects and the overall scenario, it is explained to them, just not in cinematics.

Allow me to add this: It isn't that my opinion of the average player is low, it is simply that based on the majority of the criticisms people are more interested in the end fights and cinematics. A lot of the criticisms I've read also show a complete disregard of dialogs that were pretty clearly presented in game. I can't go into much detail, because this isn't th spoiler forum and it would be bad form.

Would you care to explain that? Because IMO, that would be a very strong point for a game, instead of a flaw. Do you mean that the people who played KotOR 1 wanted to be passively entertained, like a movie? If that is true, you don't think much of the average KotOR fan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think it is fairly obvious. Read over some of the criticism, they found the ending "movie" unfulfilling, but they don't seem to comment much on Kreia's end dialog which is what the true ending is. She explains why everything occured and what she sees happening in the future as a result of your actions.