Shadowstrider

Patriots will win. Jesus will lose.

I thought IWD2 lived up to my expectectations. A 3rd edition D&D adventure game using 5 year old technology. The music wasn't as good as IWD1, but still better than the music in a LOT of games. The voice talent was excellent as well. The graphics stunk... big deal, I don't really care about graphics. The only graphics that mattered to me, IWD2 had, jawesome portraits and area maps. The customizable interface was an excellent addition. The dialog options in that game were better than 90% of the dialog options in any RPG to date. Personally I liked the Fellwood/wandering village. Reminded me of the Lost Woods from Legend of Zelda a bit too much, but still fun. The only areas I did not enjoy in that game were the glacial temple or Auril, Dragon's Eye and Chult, and that was because I encountered the most bugs with these areas and got frustrated. Of all the IE games, the gameplay in IWD2 was my favorite. The story, I could tell, seemed to be a lead in to something. When playing IWD2 I felt, throughout the whole game, like I was playing a prologue. A long, epic prologue, but a prologue none-the-less. My opinion and I'm sticking to it.

In an ideal world I would like the workbench to reflect all my NPCs and their skills, BUT, you wouldn't be "assigned" NPCs to work with, instead you would have to pick and choose your NPCs, and each NPC would have something to add to the game/party, rather than having different personalities with the same skills and powers. Everytime you exlcuded a party member you would miss out on something in the game. Unfortunately in KotOR2 this isn't the case, and you essentially have the same party members, with one or two exceptions. So yes, I'd like to see the workbench fixed to make your characters stats matter.

Don't follow. If you have a rapier (18-20) that is keen (15-20) and improved critical the threat is 12-20. Do you mean critical damage multipliers stack like that? Sure, but that has nothing to do with keen.

Weapon threat range is the same as critical threat range. If it is 19-20 that is the threat range. Critical multiplier is how many dice are rolled when you score a critical hit. In the above I said you would roll 2d6 if your normal damage is 1d6. In actuallity it depends on your critical multiplier. So if your multiplier is x3 you recieve 3d6. Critical hit attack modifier I don't know that one.

Mine was around was 43+ with my jedi consular.

Critical threat is the number needed on a 20-sided die to score a critical threat.. When you roll a succesful critical threat, you then roll a second 20-sided die. So if the critical threat of your lightsaber is 19-20 you must roll a 19 or 20 for a threat roll. In order for a critical threat to be a critical hit your threat roll must outright beat the defense(AC) of your foe. Example: Your Attack Bonus: 15 Your critical threat chance: 19-20 Enemy AC: 30 On your attack you roll a 19(roll)+15(attack bonus) which equals 34. This is automatically hits your foe. You must then roll your threat roll. Your threat roll plus your attack bonus must be greater than or equal to the enemy AC. So your threat roll could be as low as 15 and be a succesful critical hit(if the roll was 15 and your attack bonus is 15, your total is 30). Keen doubles the ORIGINAL critical threat of the weapon. So if your weapon had a threat range of 20 it would be 19-20. If it was 19-20 it becomes 17-20. Massive criticals increases the damage dealt on a critical hit. Normally a critical hit is your damage roll twice (meaning if your damage is 1d6 you roll 2d6). If you have massive criticals +1 you would roll your damage twice and add 1 point to the total. So if you normally roll 1d6, you would roll 2d6 and add 1.

I am getting a defense bonus from speed powers. I ca't test the others, since I don't have them.

Logic and volourn don't belong in the same sentence. The logic is quite simple. "Why make a story about someone elses b-grade NPCs when we can make our own stories?"

I actually don't know who or what you're talking about. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's talking about To the OG poster. I felt the same way you did, but as you play the game some more you will learn to appreciate it as I did. I'll be going through for my 5th time and it will be the first DS game I play. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never got this cut scene. In fact I never saw that NPC.

. . . and still the insults and holier-than-thou attitude. I would gladly go fact for fact with you, especially considering you have presented almost none. I replied to your ENTIRE message, quote by quote. The best you gave was "and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all." My facts are severly lacking in facts? Oh you mean like your comment about how the game has only "run of the mill" quests? Or how, in your opinion Obsidian should've made KotOR2 about the b-grade NPCs from KotOR1, like Yuthura Ban, who is in all likelyhood dead, and wasn't even a primary point of interest in the game she was originally in. Or what about your opinion that "There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II." I have YET to see you back up a single claim with fact. I said MANY times you're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to troll about it(when you post something looking for an arguement it is called trolling).

I've suddenly lost interest in replying in this thread. Global_74's best defenses of his opinion have been "thats not true, because I say so." "and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all." "and it is very obvious that the game wasnt ready to be shipped to market." "There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II. There are plot lines that are never resolved, there are lines of dialogue THAT MAKE NO SENSE, there are lines of code that should have been re-written. if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion. " I replied to his post like I reply to anyones post when I find them full of glaringly overlooked details, with factual information from the game. What do we get in reply? His opinion without any sort of support from the game. To me its clear this post is simply made as a shot. He didn't like it and no matter what we say to point out how it does fit the SW mythos, or how the game doesn't have "lines of dialog that MAKE NO SENSE" he will continue to hold his opinion and not listen to others, all the while claiming we are "trying to curry favor" or "if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion." *Desperately looks for an ignore button*

And turns the forums into a high-school-esque popularity contest.

They couldn't give a detailed analysis of all the semi-important NPCs in KotOR1. That would have taken up the whole game. Not only that if you factor in that there were 3 VERY different outcomes with that particuliar NPC. One way you save her and she returns to the jedi. If you saved her then you could assume she was one of the jedi who is slain between KotOR1 and KotOR2(I will not spoil). Another option you side with her and strike down Uthar only to have her turn on you. You kill her. Game. Set. Match. The last option is you side with Wynn, she dies. Game. Set. Match. You're to caught up in the previous game's hype to appreciate the current game as is in my opinion. I actually don't know who or what you're talking about. This is your opinion, and it is certainly valid, though I don't see how it is "erratic." Especially any more or less erratic than the first one. Just because it followed the theorum of the other Star Wars films? It does follow a very similar path to RotJ. Sure it does. KotOR2 is the history of the old republic. This one is the tale of how the jedi were once hunted to near-extinction and their hopes and fears now rest in an exile. *Semi-spoiler* */Semi-spoiler* This is one way to look at it. Personally, just as I view KotOR1 and 2 as a history lesson of the Jedi I view it as a history lesson of the sith. What did you want to learn about the sith? Did you want to learn about their dark secrets of power? Guess what, you sort of do. We learn a bit about Naga Sadow and Kressh that we did not know before. Did you expect to get indoctrinated to sith philosophy again? Uhm... *Semi-spoilers* */Semi-spoilers* Again, your opinion and you're entitled to it. I have to ask though, you're a self-proclaimed SW fanatic. What would you say Yoda does in a story? Doesn't he provide nothing more than "cryptic babble?" Don't ALL jedi masters provide nothing but cryptic babble in the SW universe? Obi-wan Kenobi? Cryptic babbler. Qui-gon Jin? Cryptic babbler. That strange-head guy who sits in the jedi chamber? Cryptic babbler. Master Vandar? Cryptic babbler. Need I continue? The Influence function was useless, there was no stat or quantitative number that we could use to gauge its effectiveness. As for their uninteresting NPCs. I quite enjoyed Kreia, and Handmaiden. Bao-Dur was a high-point in personalities. Like all games there are highes and lows. Personally I though T3-M4 was drastically improved from the first. Personally of the two games Jolee is my favorite NPC, but Kreia and Bao-dur are close.

Assuming that "lawnmower exploration areas" are doing something right, of course. I was pleased that they were gone, since I always thought that was a dopey convention in CRPGs. Obviously this was my opinion. That was my point. We know that people didn't like the story of KotOR2. It has been expressed. I wasattempting to explain why people don't like the story, the dialogs are too complex for their own good, which lead to people skipping over or completely missing certain bits of information. At least that is my understanding.

Uhm... I don't like PoRII. Nor have I ever claimed to have liked it. Go drag another thread into a troll slug fest. Thanks. Its pretty evident in the spoiler threads that people don't get it. Pay attention.

The flaw is that the majority of gamers don't want to analyze and commit dialogs to memory. Players think in the short-term and how things effect them in the short term. This is proven across platforms, games and even genres. It is fairly evident if you read any threads with spoilers someone will say "X is never explained." I look back and I can think of at least 1-2 instances of X being explained, not only that, but how X is connected to Y, and how Y is connected to Z. *Shrugs*

Well, I haven't played the game yet, but from what I hear, some people are very positive about the ending. But what does that have to do with the fact that KotOR 2 makes the player a "part" of the story instead of "showing" it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is hard to explain without giving examples and thus spoiling it. I'll do my best. In KotOR1 you act, and immediately see some sort of repurcussion. You could easily save the game before an important decision and if you didn't like the outcome, go back. You recieved immediate gratification. In KotOR2 everything isn't so black and white. You could do something seemingly inconsequential and it could lead to a loss of influence and thus a missed oppurtunity down the line. While there is good and evil in KotOR2, there is also shades of each with small miniscule details attached. A little influence here, a little there, and suddenly Bao-Dur doesn't trust you and only travels with you to save the galaxy. In KotOR1 you kill Malak and are an instant hero recieving medals or a dark lord at the reigns of "the infinite fleet." In KotOR2 you are told what your actions did to effect the galaxy, planet by planet, ally by ally. Perhaps using "showing" to describe it was a bit over the top, but the point still stands. In KotOR2 players are forced to think about small effects and the overall scenario, it is explained to them, just not in cinematics.

Allow me to add this: It isn't that my opinion of the average player is low, it is simply that based on the majority of the criticisms people are more interested in the end fights and cinematics. A lot of the criticisms I've read also show a complete disregard of dialogs that were pretty clearly presented in game. I can't go into much detail, because this isn't th spoiler forum and it would be bad form.

Would you care to explain that? Because IMO, that would be a very strong point for a game, instead of a flaw. Do you mean that the people who played KotOR 1 wanted to be passively entertained, like a movie? If that is true, you don't think much of the average KotOR fan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think it is fairly obvious. Read over some of the criticism, they found the ending "movie" unfulfilling, but they don't seem to comment much on Kreia's end dialog which is what the true ending is. She explains why everything occured and what she sees happening in the future as a result of your actions.

My "thank you" came in the form of the $49.99 + sales tax at the register. Thanks, though.

I found it coherent. . . quite coherent, in fact. Happy holidays all the same.

I do? Thanks for claiming to know what I am "clearly denying." Does the game have bugs? Yes, bugs which should have been addressed. I've had my fair share of them, but they're not fun ruining bugs. If you can recall, KotOR1 had its fair share of bugs as well, most of which seem to mirror those in KotOR2. Does the game have bad areas? Sure. I did not enjoy Peragus or Nar Shadaa much. If you can recall there were a lot of complaints about KotOR1 in some areas too. Manaan seemed to be a hot-spot of complaints or boredom. Does the game have some problems? Of course. Is the game better than KotOR1? Undeniably, the sheer amount of new features makes the game superior in my eyes. I don't know who "nobody" is, but you're wrong. I know I complained about BG2 when it was first released. Did BG2 have better features and gameplay? Sure, but they also took out most the things BG1 did right, like lawnmower exploration areas that were truely open-ended. BG2 also started the trend of BioWare's antagonist-centric stories, which KotOR1 thankfully verged away from. As I said in my post above, KotOR2's greatest flaw is that they made the player a direct part of the story and made them think about it rather than simply showing them the story. If you don't understand that statement then its easy to see why you don't understand how it is KotOR2's greatest failing.

Why is KotOR1 in such high regards compared to KotOR2? One word. Nostalgia. Go play KotOR2, then go play KotOR1. KotOR2 is hands down superior to KotOR1. The plot of KotOR1 was simplistic with only 1 good "twist" and several convuluted and simply moronic ones, and weren't the "twists" of KotOR1 supposed to be the amazing aspects? On the other side of the spectrum you have KotOR2, whose story has no great "twist" but does have a dark and mysterious plot, so mysterious that some people after beating it still don't understand it(despite it being explained pretty plainly). KotOR2's greatest failing isn't that it has a poor story. KotOR2's greatest failing is that it makes players think and understand the story, rather than watching it.