Cloris

I do like the fact that Luxa seems to come onto the Exile whether male or female. Cloris

I agree -- and I find the philosophical bashing on a Star Wars board to be the height of irony. To each their own, I suppose. One of the best thing about the Matrix Universe: if it shows up in something, then it is cannon. And the W. Brothers wrote Bound -- angsty lesbian noir! Between that and the Matrix films, anything else they put together is going to get a least a vewing or playthrough from me. Cloris

The Star Maps were much more interesting to look at (Vrook isn't easy on the eyes), but the Jedi Masters were more interesting to intereact with. From a greedy point of view: the Masters gave powers, the maps just gave directions. Cloris

I agree -- it does seem rather simplistic and narrow-minded to forbid love rather than teach warriness of the things that can come with it. For heaven's sake, they're bloody Jedi Masters -- they know it is going to happen anyway. I thought that Jolee was the smartest about it, that was pretty obvious. In II, with a male Exile, I think you get to say something about "pulling a Bindo" in reference to love... Cloris

I do wish that Atris had been more specific about how she engineered the Exile's return to known space, that the footlocker with your stuff in it on the Harbinger gave some clue as to why you were there, and that Kreia told you how the hell she was on the Ebon Hawk (did T3 pick her up, was she at the last convience store before Sith Space, what?). I wonder how much of the ending material will be completed when the Restoration Project gets done with it... Like I said before: if the rest of the game weren't so compelling, then this stuff wouldn't bother me much at all. Cloris

[quote name='Bless

You'll know when you can go back because Kreia will tell you to go back and that's all she'll say. Have you gone back to Izis for the civil war? What does your Journal say? Cloris

Nice try -- I am not so easily baited. I do find the rest of this discussion to be very interesting... Cloris

I'll have to get it. I enjoyed ETM (yeah, a lot of people didn't, I know), and beta-ed TMO. In for a penny, as they say... Cloris

Ahhh, there you go, you! It's way off topic. Anyway, if we value competence over gender, then genderless titles are the way to go. I'm not nearly as militant as others on the issue. To keep it on topic, if one can master the Force, then one is a Master of the Force, no matter what equipment one carries for gentic reproduction (soemthing the Jedi aren't supposed to do anyhow). The above is, of course, just my opinion, Cloris

Well, yes, I am arguing semantics -- we both are. That's where we are when move around the definition of "child" for the sake of this discussion. Now we're not really discussing children, you have moved the age requirement back to infants or even miscarriages -- and I fear that continuing this discussion along this lines may result in me being reprimanded for content, and causing some of the more delicate readers kind enough to view this thread to lose their respective meals... I do want to encourage you to perform your own research, though I fear you will be disturbed by what you find. I can tell you that I did so myself, being initially unwilliing to believe -- just like you. I only said "distance," not ridicule. That's why I mentioned it here! Cloris

There is a growing trend to view the male version of a pronoun as the "sexless" version, and therefore preferred; whereas the female version still denotes gender. For the sake of all that is good and holy, don't get me started on gender and language!!! Cloris

I had that conversation as a LS female, but only after a couple of play-throughs. That could be because I didn't notice it until then, but I doubt it -- the conversations are the highlight of the game for me. Cloris

I was "Forbidden" as well, though I did think that the message page was rather neat... Cloris

In truth, only the people that wrote Kreia could really tell us what she would have been thinking. Perhaps she just manipulating, but I think she was preparing the Exile to end the threat to the glaxay and to the Force through the deaths of Scion, Nihilius, and Kreia. As a Sith, maybe she saw the crew as one last set of puppet strings to pull. As a ex-Jedi, maybe she wanted to remember what it was like to do the right thing one last time. In any case, I enjoy the possibilities. Cloris

Yes, but I've never been a supporter of that results-justifiies-methods tenent, which is why I have trouble here. Mical's rants about the Jedi would make a lot of sense in reference to this discussion, in my opinion. Well, sure, anything else is a shortcut to thinking... It was the obvious route, true. Thanks for the thread pointer -- that was one of the threads that helped me decide to stop lurking and start posting. :cool: Cloris

Shanshu: the name of a prophecy in the series Angel. I understood 13 of those items... Arrrrg, I am such a geek! Cloris

Thank you, this is more like the discussion that I so oddly look for on a discussion board. I think that perhaps you are right, that perhaps depth is, in part, a function of where one looks to finds it. Character development is why I play games like these, though, rather than simply hacking and slashing my way thourgh a genre. I keep trying to pin Kreia's motivations down without simplifying it into ridiculousness (which is apparently, much easier than I would have thought). If Kreia's sole wish was the destruction of the Force, and that could be accomplished through the murder of the Exile, why doesn't she simply kill her in the cargo bay of the Harbinger (where she says she first found the Exile)? Does she give any indication at all that killing her later would be more effective in achieving the destruction of the Force? If not, then further thought is obviously in order -- though only to those that believe it to be worthy of contemplation in the first place. Cloris

I was never able to trigger Mandalore's sub-mission, although I did have him meet and recruite the Mandalorians on Nar Shadaa and Dantooine. How is this one supposed to play out? I was only able to complete "Fuel for Telos" with the restoration project's mod/patch. Cloris

Let me try this spoiler quote function and see if I don't screw it up... Cloris

Regarding Post #59 in this thread: I would be exceptionally grateful if in the middle of a diatribe, you would be clear on which person you are quoting where in your post. I do agree, though, that there seem to be some serious hate and anger management issues contained in this thread, and those of you that enjoy that sort of thing are welcome to them -- it simply isn't the discussion I was hoping to enjoy. Cloris

I don't really think the subject was restricted in much of any way -- we've been all over the table on it, and I rather like it that way. Just be specific when you disagree with someone so it is easier to communicate, at least that's my unasked for opinion. We were talking about the the Jedi and their prisoners, the Order's actions in reference to Reven, a hypothetical duel between Malak and Kavar regarding what makes someone a Jedi's prisoner, and the morality driving some of the characters in Episode III, to name but a few! I recall that it was Bastilla's mission to capture rather than assassinate, and that makes me wonder what the Jedi were originally planning to do with/to her. If they could not contain her as she the person she was, and they knew that they could not do so, then what was to happen? I feel like I have to consider the possibility that this could have been their plan all along... Considering her injuries, perhaps they did only what was necessary. However, the deliberate with-holding of information about one's self in order to prevent a certain path of determination is a complicated issue and not one easily brushed aside. It was an issue, depending on how you played it, that could have done more harm than good -- if they were actually trying to bring someone back to the light, then perhaps sowing discord and distrust is not a wise way to do so. Something else: since she was dying, and it took what seems to be unnatural measures to bring her back, did the Jedis interfere with the "will of the Force" by reviving her? Or can it, by it's very nature, not be denied? Oh, hell, I've gone from ethics to divinity. Opps. Cloris

Sleep deprivation, my old friend! I answered hours or less, and that's usually my total per day. I've never been a good sleeper, and I had a sudden, severe illness this winter that's made me rather irrationally bothered by sleeping while everyone else is alseep. The most time I have voluntarily spent awake is about 80 hours. During a period of insomina, stress, and other factors I stayed awake approximately five days. So, this whole sleep thing you people do really interests me... Several years ago when my daughter was an infant, she came down with pneumonia and had to be treated with medication every 4 hours. I was afraid to sleep for two reasons: I was afraid that she would stop breathing and as I was already sleep deprived, I feared that I wouldn't hear an clock alarm or cry. By the beginning of the fifth day I was pretty sure that I was certifiably insane (she was taken care of and that was all that mattered), but it was the Friday -- I had the husband take over and I sleep until Monday morning. From personal experience, I can say that a sleep deprivation experience depends extensively on why you aren't sleeping! Worry and insomnia make for a miserable time, as you'd expect. However, staying up for three days in order to enjoy, say, hedonistic fun and games -- obviously that's much more fun. Just don't drive or plan on doing anything that next day. Some things were the same: hand trembling, lack of concentrated focus, bouts of irrationability (this is where the hedonism helps) et al. Some say that it can be paralleled to hallucinogenics, but who believes what "they" say, anyway? Cloris ...whose spelling and grammer deteriorates the longer she's awake during any one stretch...

It is impossible! I didn't want you to feel like I was just baiting you though, and that's why I explained that I had to do it too. All societies have sets of rules that they use to determine what is acceptable behavior, true, but those rules are not nearly as universal as we think. In some cultures, women spend their time of active mentstration seperate from their tribe under penalty of physical punishment. In others, it is wrong to raise your hand against your neighbor for any reason, even self defense -- greviances are addressed through a council. In some it is acceptable to mutilate the genitals of newborn males, in others it is considered remiss not to mutilate the genitals of pre-pubescent girls in order to prepare them for future marriage. Most people don't want to be lied too, but if you are asked "Honey, do these jeans make me look fat?" answering "No, baby, your huge posterior makes you look fat," may be true, but not appreciated. Okay, I'm trying to lighten up a bit, I admit: I feel I've been kind of stuffy. You make some damn good generalizations, but there are always exceptions. I have whole books about the exceptions, but my specialization is human sexuality, so the details probably aren't appropriate here. I think that in order to call it "human morality" one needs to leave room for us to be just that, human. To me, that means considering a person's point of view, to you it may not -- and you know what? I appreciate your point of view! So there, take that! O, yeah, that assignment: it is impossible to cite a universally (across countries, cultures, and timelines) accepted moral stance, even on extreme issues such as infantacide, canibalism, and incest. I don't want you to think I was trying to trick you, though, it really is an eye-opening exercise, and I think that it's great that you tried (screw Yoda, sometimes trying is more important than doing!). Thank you. From your next post: When you were asking me if then any action was therefore justifiable, and whether or not there was any room for those that knowingly commit wrongs --I perceived it as accusatory and antagonistic and I then reacted defensively. My apologies. More from me later, Cloris