Jediphile

"infiltrated" ?!?!? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He invaded and killed them all !!! Maybe that

:D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dissent the ranks... Not a good sign. I sense the green one stirring lazily, something having disturbed its sleep... It looks around in a displeased and slightly indifferent manner to identify the source of the commotion. The point is: "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup..."

The problem with that is that if Revan is DS, then some of them - certainly Jolee, Juhani, Mission, Zaalbar - must be dead, possibly Carth as well. Gruesome! Especially since you just argued for not killing the companions. Still, I like it for a DS option "infiltrated" ?!?!?

It doesn't work with all characters, though. DUH! " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who does it work with? And who doesn't it work with?

Don't just sit there - spam something! :D (Inspired by Dennis Hopper in Waterworld...)

But Carth IMHO would have to be made an important person in that game so I think it would be bad if you select Revan to be DS and the whole "Carth killed your father out of revange" should then be skipped. I don't suppose you would like a storyline and the quest "find Carth Onasi" would take up just a few minutes do you? I mean, finding a republic admiral is no easy task and it would be bad if the game just covers it up with "the Lonna Vash" strategy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The idea is that you would be gunning for Revan for your revenge, not Carth. Yes, Carth may have killed Saul, but he would never have been able to do that without Revan and Bastila, so they are just as much to blame, if not more so. But hey, if you don't like it, then fair enough... I'm not married to the idea or anything... How about the idea of a mandalorian jedi? His DS choice could be to kill Canderous, become the new Mandalore, and then lead them as a mandalorian *and* a jedi!

"My God - it's full of stars..."

Almost time for spam-song, you know...

Yeah... K*ching - where do I collect my cheque? :D

We need spamfighter badly...

No, an Ewok and a Gungan...

Well, I guess the story would be more difficult to build if Revan would be DS in Kotor I (you cannot avenge Carth as he is death). It's just not good to build more plots then one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Carth could be dead, yes, but Darth Revan will be alive and will have been instrumental in Saul Karath's death regardless. I don't see a downside plotwise in this.

Concerning the timetable... from Wookieepedia * 3,963 BBY o The Mandalorian Wars begin. The Jedi Revan and Malak defy the Jedi Council and lead the Republic forces against the invaders. * 3,960 BBY o The Mandalorian Wars end. A Jedi serving Revan as general, later called the Exile, willfully severs all ties to the Force to end the pain caused by the thousands of deaths at the Battle of Malachor V. Revan and Malak disappear. The Exile is called to Coruscant to answer for defying the Jedi Council, and is banished upon the Council learning of the general's willful abandonment of the Force. * 3,959 BBY o Revan and Malak, who have been seduced by the Dark Side, declare war on the Republic. Only the Battle Meditation of Bastila Shan staves off certain defeat. * 3,956 BBY o The Jedi Civil War concludes with the redemption of Revan, the death of Malak, and the destruction of the Star Forge. * 3,955 BBY o Revan disappears into the Unknown Regions to destroy the ancient Sith Empire. * 3,951 BBY o The Exile is discovered aboard the Ebon Hawk, Revan's ship, by Darth Traya, a Sith Lord trying to kill the Force by manipulating the life-threatening echoes caused by the Exile's willing abandonment of it. The Exile reestablishes connection to the Force, then kills Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Sion, who have spent the last five years murdering Jedi, and the Jedi Order is rebuilt by the surviving Jedi. End of the Old Sith Wars. * 3,950 BBY o The Jedi Exile, along with T3-M4, disappears into the Unknown Regions to find Revan.

"As a padawan..." would seem to suggest otherwise... The other quote you refer to is this: Disciple: "Many of the Jedi Council trained Exar Kun, Ulic... Revan and Malak. How could they not see the danger they posed? And if they could not......perhaps there was some essential part of their teachings that was flawed. Something beyond the Jedi Code that they were missing. Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques.It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order." I make no pretenses about knowing whether that list is in reverse chronological order, but I think the quote I posted before suggests that Kae was the first, both because of the "as a padawan" comment and because it is very clear that she came before that master the Disciple can't remember. I actually don't a clue who might be referred to here... It might be a reference to Kreia having also sought out her old master, whoever that was, to learn how to leave the order... But that is pure conjecture. I'd agree with that, which to me is another clue pointing to Kreia being Kae, since she also had Revan as a padawan, and eventually had him return to her to learn how to leave the order.

I'd go for... 5. Both willingly fallen to the dark side to fight the true sith and now must be made to aid you and possibly redeemed, if the republic is to survive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Not more than Exar Kun or other major figures in the known SW history. The Republic doesn't need them specifically to survive is what I mean. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I don't agree with you there... KotOR2 was all about finding out that Revan had *needed* to go off and fight the true Sith - possibly because nobody else could - and then following in his foodsteps, because he would somehow need the exile's aid. If they are not important, then the entire plot of KotOR2 becomes pointless...

20+ posts Boy was I wrong... :"> The mods are slipping - have they gone AWOL?

I agree. Kreia is dead - leave the corpse alone!

Well the exact quote is... Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had.And such teachings and their teachers is why I harbor doubts, why I wonder if something is missing from the Jedi code." So no question - Kae trained Revan, when he was a padawan, and then Revan was trained by that master Disciple can't remember. Unless you doubt Disciple's words, that's a fact.

We finally agree on something. Hadn't caught the bit about Sion being on Korriban myself. Interesting... I'll have to check that out sometime. As for Kreia, I've long, long since given up getting any semblance of truth out of her... "

This is an incorrect assumption. D&D for one, is a gamist RPG, that tries to create an interesting game for the players, similarly to (for instance) chess. Trying to find an in-world representation for its rules is somewhat futile, as it is not the point of the game. Some rules will have it, some won't, but in general it is beside the "point" of D&D; D&D simply doesn't prioritize it. Some other systems naturally will. However, it is not the main priority of all RPG systems, even if it is important to your way of playing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's a "gamist RPG" anyway? And if it is what it sounds like to me, what RPG wouldn't that be true for? Also, it seems pretty silly to compare an RPG to a simple board game like chess, where the rules are very strict, limited and simple. Those simple rules are there to give you a framework by which to set up your strategy and then see how far it can take you. RPGs aren't like that at all. And no matter how "realistic" or not you may prefer them to be (or not), you really cannot deny that it doesn't impede the gaming experience if you constantly have an incredibly unreaslistic rule glaring right in your face. I mean, what if the cost of buying a sword is lower than the components needed for making it? That's right in the rules, but it's just plain and basic stupidity and needs to be changed, no questions asked. The same goes for a lot of other areas. I really don't care how many thousands of hit points that 37th-level warrior/paladin/whatnot is - if he falls off a mountain for a few miles right onto sharp pointed rocks, then he's dead and should be. Period. Of course, you could then argue that I can impose that ruling as a GM, sure, but in that case, why would I even need those stupid rules in the first place, if I'm going to overrule them anyway? Besides, shouldn't a game by professional game designers take this relatively simple and straightforward situation into account in its rules? As a GM (of D&D and other RPGs) of a decade and a half, I can tell you quite frankly, taht there is nothing worse than having to defend a completely stupid and illogical rule because the game insists on it.

Well, this is post no. 8 in this topic. Anyone game for a guess on how many posts it'll get before the mods close it? My guess is 11...

I'd go for 15 and be the child of Saul Karath. But otherwise 8 is not bad. You could also be a force-sensitive orphan taken in and trained by the order, who turns out to be a mandalorian. I mean, have we seen a mandalorian jedi before?

I'd go for... 5. Both willingly fallen to the dark side to fight the true sith and now must be made to aid you and possibly redeemed, if the republic is to survive.

The problem with being the child of Revan or Malak is that you have had to be born before the Mandalorian Wars, when they were both still jedi of the order. True, we know that Jolee was married and that Nomi had a child and were allowed to stay in the order, but it seems that the order still frowns on jedi who have family or children. This is stated by Kreia as the reason for Arren Kae's exile (though I doubt that's the entire reason myself). Even so, Bastila tells in K1 that ties to family must be severed, once you join the order. So the problem with being the child of Revan or Malak is that they were both described as ideal and iconic jedi right up until the point when they defied the council and left to fight in the war. If you "rewrite" their history by giving them children, then you mess with the idea of "corruption and fall of the perfect jedi"-motif that formed the basis of KotOR1. Messing with the past of established canon is always a bad idea - just look at Star Trek... Besides, if the purpose of being the child of Revan or Malak is simply to establish a motive for the character to be powerful, then I wouldn't want it anyway. Revan was power - the greatest and most powerful jedi of his time. Exile was not a great jedi, but he could deny the will of the force - a truly unique power. So we've already played the "chosen one" jedi twice in two games. Please no more. Revan is and should be the most powerful jedi, even in K3. The new pc should just be a jedi who "facilitates" Revan and Exile and let them end up fulfilling their destinies. So I still think that if you're going to be the child of any established character in KotOR, then you should be the son or daughter of Saul Karath - secretly taken from Telos before it was bombed by your father and then raised on Coruscant to be hated universally, as the sins of the father were visited on the child. The jedi order took pity on you, though, and then discovered you were force sensitive. So will you be DS and take revenge against Revan and Carth for your father's fate, or will are you disgusted by your father...

I think you meant to say Not in stead of Now. Am I Right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course you are