Lord Tarondor

I decided to disregard the replies after the FF reply one with women being stupid. My intention is not to degrade, or to belittle anyone -- its to point out simply that the market and percentages you speak of are vague at best. Women aren't 'stupid' in any sense of the word, its just their tastes are different. Honestly, you act as if real life warrents a 40-60% split anytime when discussing something so simple as a story like Lord of the Rings or Final Fantasy or Star Wars which have story-driven games and RPGs. As for my women lying thing -- it was meant to be men who lied and said they were women so cliques on the internet could lavish them with disgusting attention. The sports games comment was just a simple point showing how markets work -- there's hardly anything catering for women there and in the same market, there are many women who enjoy sports. As for RPGs, I think there's probably even less in massively story-driven games so why should companies seek to please both sides by wasting time and resources when they know they have a guarenteed tap on "60%" of the market. Companies don't spend as much time as they used to and I'm just taking that into consideration. I like the comment about how ignoring 30-40% of the market is stupid; if you meant the RPG market then, yes, perhaps, but just the gaming market in general, since you bring up these ridiculous figures that probably can be dumbed down to 20%, it would be great if a company was lucky enough to have 60% of the market interested in their game. Example? Sports games, since you loathe them so much -- I doubt 7 out of every 10 people say, 'Damn, I want to play an EA Sports game right now,' so there you are. As for little boys and grandpas being interested in card games and barbie funhouse or blues clues or something equally disturbing, you have little boys who are six and seven who play Star Craft, World of Warcraft, Morrowind, or something equally challenging. I know its a vague look at it, but I can just look at my 3 nieces and 4 nephews and what they have purchased for their games (5-13 yr olds) and notice the most exciting the girls have is The Hobbit, and I'm sure it gets played. All I'm saying is most RPG games or story-driven games have the cliche storyline: the heroic and massive-sword carrying male or some sort of overpowered man and some cliche woman who is very sterotyped and so forth is . There may be a women side to it, but as far as I've seen, its never done even near 100% or even fully satisfying to the women who played it. But I digress: I hated KotOR'2 if you think I'm only talking about it. I just have to look at how female gamers think in my school -- there's not many of them, and its pretty big school and the little gamer's clique I'm in hasn't degenerated into discussing Greene and his Thread theories or colonising Europa yet so we defenitely interact and there just isn't that many people interested in the RPG games or any market for that matter; what am I supposed to think? Oh, here's another bull**** statistic that is vague, and so it must be right. Damn you companies, you're being sexist! -- change your ways, now! In closing: as for your reconstruction or building on -- you go ahead and do that. If it makes you feel better when you watch a two-dimensional character (Atton Rand) who's scene got yanked showing just how much the company cares, then by all means do it. I don't care. I won't care since its the equivalent of me caring if you could redeem the DS Female on the Star Forge through Carth; it didn't happen, it was cut and it won't matter in the next story, obviously.

Diablo II and Star Wars Galaxies are of course loved by both women -- the typical Diablo character in tight-fitting armor and SWG being Star Wars in the first place and a male-oriented game.

I suppose you'll say Final Fantasy is defintetly loved by both genders, when in reality FF's typical female character is a short-skirt/short wearing ass-kicker with big boobs. Cliche and sterotype to sell to the teenagers/little boys. Name some RPGs that sell that give women an equal plate, both KoTORs are out because the development team couldn't do their sides 100% in either, and obviously don't care.

If they want to do worse than they already are. P.S. Kind of like judging from the cut stuff from the first story where Revan is redeemed on the Star Forge by interacting Carth that KotOR'1's female side would have had the better storyline. As Carth would say when people can't realise history: Its over. You. Lost. Heck, both games couldn't even keep Revan in character when referring to 'her' if you played or selected either; I'm afraid both companies just don't have enough vested interest to even do dialogues correctly but believe what you will.

Don't know why people want to defend the game -- it wasn't finished, and even if you can 'draw' your own conclusion with your imagination, its not real; such a conclusion didn't occur within the game, and therefore, its a moot point. It was not climactic -- it was depressing to waste that much time to arrive and find that your time was wasted.

NPCs Bindo's Robe Characters Nomi's Robe Malak's Armor

Madden sells, NBA Live sells -- I want lists of women shooters/sports games that compete.

I said I could hardly care and hope it would happen, but the facts are: Star Wars was made for little boys and teenage boys -- Lord of the Rings was made for little boys and teenage boys and adult men; why because it has thick plots that focus on male characters that are extremely heroic and ridiculously overpowered. Stephen King, 'The Dark Tower' series isn't for women. Most Anti-Hero stories aren't for women since half the female population, and while its certainly a stereo-type of sorts, find it 'stupid.' I know, I'm not some closet-monkey who's never interacted with women. I doubt many women play Half-Life 2. I know some who play WoW but they're few and far between. SWG -- no. Barbie Fun House? Probably. RPGs tend to be like that -- story-driven, and frankly, no male wants to play a female if its anything less than cheesy, cliche, and so forth; hell most, don't want to play female. In the end, you then have to take into consideration the time it takes to make a game, and to make a good game in which both males and females can be pleased, there runs the risk of wasting too much money. LucasArts, for instance, will not want to waste that much time, and while other companies may want to, they probably won't. I'm not threatened with it -- I just know, that yes, there are women who play, but not enough to warrant what you want at this moment. Companies would be shooting themselves in the foot because, as of now, most companies don't want to spend too much money desinging a game nor do they want to spend a lot of time making it -- they want things that will sell, and if its an RPG and its like FFX or KotOR, they're going to want to appeal to boys. KotOR I and II have the male touch because I've read from pretty much every girl here that the female side generally sucks in comparison to male.

Vrook to Exile: You're straight. Kreia in courtyard: You're a f***ing homo. Kavar to Exile: You're boss pimp. Kreia in courtyard: You pack Atton's ****. Memorable, my arse. The music is the only great thing about the entire scene.

No, he's not. He's interpreted the statistics quite fairly; its once again like saying 40% of the people who watch sports are women and since thats so, they should advertise NCAA Women's Basketball more, when in reality its Tennis, Golf, and Soccer that's more popular amongst women. Its stupid, its a waste of money for gaming developers, and it won't happen for a long time.

I've bashed the game at every turn, GhostofAnakin -- why don't I get a complimentary who gives a **** post?

I'm glad you skipped over the tidbits of fact that show how pointless your statistics are. I hardly care if I'm insulting -- I'm being real, and sports 'are growing' as much as any population, but I still don't see anyone caring about NCAA Women's Basketball, and men certainly don't care about Tennis less its to watch Maria Sharapova or Anna Kournakova. Its the same as games -- there's people there, but not enough for what type of games you want made. There just aren't. As for forum-goers, ya, well, thats too bad they don't show themselves amongst the living cause then I might change my mind.

There's that little clause again. It's the equivalent of saying 40% of sports athletes are women so NCAA Women's Basketball should have more publicity, when in reality Tennis and Soccer are the major Women's Sports.

BTW, are those the same 41% of women who generally lie about it just so they can be popular within gaming cliques? Last time I checked, polls were hardly correct -- like the survey that showed John Kerry was favored amongst americans 60 to 39% against Bush?

I thought you guys liked Barbie funhouse. Honestly though, men have short attention spans and we need to be pleased quickly otherwise we might break out into fights over what color of skin Revan has. More games like KotOR cause problems so the solution is simple -- games with women characters, and games for men that have women characters we can play if we want to be kinky. You can have your action games, and such, but Star Wars has, and probably will always be, a franchise in which the Light Sided Male is the standard. As for 'facts' and 'research', I've researched, and I've also lived a little. I know a few girls who game but there are just tons more men who play, and its like any marketplace: heck, I'll give you an example. NCAA Basketball -- there's women's and men's, but you wanna know something? The Men's March Madness Tournament sells. The women's tournament is little more than interesting save to those minority of women who enjoy basketball as fanatically as most men do. You don't see CBS or ESPN showing sixteen commercials for March Madness a minute -- the tournament itself is underwraps generally until the final four, and even then, most people don't know when it happens because advertisment for it is vague at best. That's just how it is; it's like men complaining to Victoria's Secrets that there should be more male underwear and more money devoted to making sensual men's clothing that will attract women. There's no care for it, and there's no market for it, just like there's no market for making fleshed-out games that fit what you want for women. A company would be shooting itself in the foot if it catered to women less it was a kiddie girl's company. As for non-specific gender characters, its like I say -- men want a compelling storyline that they can be immersed in and well frankly, gender specifics would be important because we want our story to always be the 'canonical' experience. Making a trilogy where three (if three has a new one) different characters are vague at best irks a lot of people from what I've read and heard and while its successful, you can't really blame them. It's their (our) market, and Star Wars and Star Trek have always been the nerdy-boy convention type. Personally, I don't care but if anyone is saying women 'deserve' games in which they have main characters, all I can say is no one 'deserves' anything they don't work or strive for. Its a market, and in the end, its the company who is generally intelligent enough to succeed that makes the decision, and as of yet, the market hasn't really shifted and it probably won't. Hell, a lot of women still have disdain for gamers or people who 'game' (mostly 15-17 yr olds) and find them to be 'loserish.' I personally have only one been insulted like that for discussing the finer points of why The Return of the King was a better game than TTT and FoTR and have seen it happen on numerous occasion. While I'd love it to happen -- games for every person, that is -- I think it's going to fall on the shoulders of a company that's geared for women, not on a company that's been for little boys growing up for a long time.

Datapad Entry No. 4: Walked in to my parents room last week to find mom playing 'Ride the Wookie.' She was screaming, 'SHOW ME THE FORCE!' and dad was wearing his mask changing languages a mile a minute -- I could only write all this down at this moment because it's taken me a week to come back to the living. I can't sleep anymore. Everytime I try to eat, my dad thrusting his lightsaber into my mom comes back to haunt me. I'm going to go try to drown myself again, now. - Vena Shan

What does the holo say? Grr, do I need more influence with him or something?

^^ROFL.

Revan and Bastila would have been a more awesome love story than Han/Leia and Pukey Amidala and Annie Skywalker.

If by mines you mean skillets and if by jump you mean Force Beast Tricked than you are correct.

It all comes with being evil.

In order to understand why its relevant to the thread, you must first detatch yourself from base emotions -- become one with the thread, and only then can you understand.

I am the real Dark Lord... - Darth Cheney.