Volourn

"Morrowind had a better toolset, and a better single player campaign that NWN. Morrowind had a better engine as well." MW was crap. It had crappy grahics (brown poo does not = good grahics). It had a crappy camapign with a non existent story, completely forgettable npcs, horrible dialogue, no worthwhile or interesting quests. MW along with the rest of the ES series are amongst the worst games of all time. I cna't really judge its toolset though since I threw the game in the trahs can; but I seriosuly doubt it's any better than NWN's since NWN's toolset is capable of a lot and its also mostly user friendly (but, I'm stupid and still cna't get scripting down though I'm getting there). the fact that you like MW over NWN let alone othe rgames kinda hurts this comaprison as MW is pathetic. "NWN was innovatinve. That doesn't make it one of the best RPGs of all time. Plenty of other games innovated greatly, yet were far more enjoyable RPGs." If I wer egoing just by the OC, I'd agree. The OC isn't one of the best. However, the total package is. Like I said, any game that can keep my attention for moe than 6 months (let alone 2+ years) tells me a lot about the fun factor.

It's opinion. Why would I name them so you cna simply say no, they suck, lol? Anyways, since I don't mind being told games I like suck, I'll list 'em. The Bg series. Awesome. NWN: The Total Package tm is the *only* game to have a play life of more than 6 months for me. Good stuff. KOTOR. I'm not the biggest SW fan, and I was not even going to buy this game even with the BIo tag on it until the x-box version was released and it almost universally cheered on even by those who would normally be anti Bioware. That says a lot right there though, admittedly, unlike the other games, I have more than a few major problems with this game. However, story and characters save this one (minus the silly amnesia and collect x amount of items). Commence your attack on said games.

"Ultima series, Arx Fatalis, Gothic, KOTOR, Wizardry, Might and Magic, Bards Tale, Nethack, System Shock, Deus Ex, Zork, Starflight, Krondor, Elder Scrolls, Dungeon Master, Wasteland, Eye of the Beholder, and many, many other important RPGs are missing from the list." More than a few of these games you mention suck 10x worse than TOEE. I'm glad he ddn't include them. Roshan is kinda youngish so he probably didn't play some of the older great games like the Ultima series as well. And, there is no way what so ever - that EOTB should be on that list. It's POR2 bad. "Arcanum also made the list, but I'm not objecting to that. But IWD, NWN and ToEE" All 4 of these games deserve to be on the list. Arcanum is top 10 potential. IWD was a solid dungeon crawl. NWN is the Energizer Bunny when it comes to RPG shelf life (for me at least), and TOEE has probably the best combat system ever for a CRPG). "Probably because it's still in the Beta stages and only finished games made it into the list. Or something." Meh. BL - even with its problems - would be a worthy addition to the list.

"Huh? What are you babbling about? Interplay hasn't failed. Remember that Herve has a plan for the company and he's following it. He'll show y'all when his new MMORPG is released, real soon." ... LOL :D P.S. And, I'll show him by not buying if it has passes the 1% chance of actually being released.

Yet, you continue to buy and play D&D games. There is no logic there. If something would make me cry - and, they're not tears of joy - I stay away. Period.

"Obsidian has Black Isle games to demonstrate for their capabilities." Not really. Some of Obsidian do. It's also a whole different set of circumstances. "PS:T demonstrates their potential." Potentital for a top 20 game. I much prefer FO1&2 as my examples of their potential. "Huge maps can be both good and bad." That kinda obvious. Depends what the huge maps are there for. Obviously MW "maps" are bad. "I've never seen a truly great Bioware game. I've seen a few truly great Black Isle games." 2 great BIS games. 2 good BIS games. 4 great BIO games. BIO wins. "I'll go with the Black Isle alumns." I'll go with BIO. Obsidian exists partly due to BIS (and Interplay's) failure. BIO exists because of their successes.

"Dont forget the spoiler tags" LOL Spoiler Paranoia. Still, good advice. :cool:

"an open ended game with huge maps" This probably won't happen. "a good game engine.." All their engines are good at the very minimum.

Both. NWN2 because it's D&D, I like Obsidian even though I've played 0 games of theirs and I love the original. DA because it's new yet familiar most likely, and BIo develops it. "NWN2. Bioware seems to have fallen into a habit of doing basically the same thing over and over again (story-wise, not setting)" Sure. Their games share similarities; but they alos have pretty big differences as well. Pretty much every developer has a 'style' they keep game from game. Only logical to do so. "But one of my personal rasons to support NWN2 is because how I have been playing NWN since the first day it was released," "out do Bioware's poor hand in NWN." Intertesting. You state that BIO did poorly with NWN1 yet you've been playing it since its release. I guess you like poorly made games. R00fles!

NWN: The Entire Package tm garners my vote.

Play nice, you two.

No.

Doubtful.

"Flaming is alright with me for as long as it's confined to a single thread or whatever. Should it become personal, it's no longer flaming, it's harassing. And a lot of people wouldn't be happy with that. " Eh. We harass each other all the time, and it's fun. Same with me and Ender, me and Hades, oops, see a pattern here? :D "The latest was Volourn's Gender." I'd wager that was erased because it had gottne pretty big, was an old thread that recently got bumped, and wasn't going anywherer fast. No one on the 'net knows 100% what I am; though some should be at least 97.34% sure. "

Alignment is a tool; not a straitjacket. Do people even read the D&D sourcebooks. No one; not even paladins, are forced to play a certain way. "shackled" to the Lawful good alignment." Paladin characters are not shackled. It's not ahrd coded. There are paladins that mistakes,m there are paladins that fall, there are paladins thata re rude, overly aggresive, etc., etc. Has anyone here played the module Dragon Mountain? There's a prime exmaple in that 'official' module where there's a paladin who isn't exactly a perfect beacon of light. Anywyas, back to alignment, there's a reason why the concept of 'falling' from one's alignment exists. The alignment one chooses (or is given as is the case of paladins) at the start of a character's career is just a guideline how a characetr has been acting and basic code of ethics. This cna change during the course of play for so many reasons and there's lots of 'wiggle room" within a single alignment. A LG dwarf from Mithril Hall is gonna have a different outlook of life than a LG human from Amn. No doubt about it.

"Stephen King is the 'fast food' of modern literature. Nice sometimes, but have too much of it and you'll end up dead." I think many of his books - including some of the ones Ender mentioned - would disprove that theory. Sure, King has many books that would pass for 'fast food literature'; but many of them don't. In fact, his best books shouldn't really be counted as horror. Green Mile, The Stand, and The Shawshank Redemption are just 3 examples of this. And, even most of his horror books are deeper than just piling up the bodies. Though of course some like Children of the Corn (which is still cool), and Sometimes They Come Back are for that. All good. :cool:

"Largely overrated and eccentric? Then again, I've never read the Dark Tower series. I think King comes up with good ideas (see Apt Pupil, The Stand, Stand by Me, The Shining, etc) but that doesn't mean he is a good writer." You gotta be jokin'. Stephen King is the ebst writer of all time. period. His biggest weakest, however, is that he can be long winded. at times. Still, he's awesome. Period. As for The Ring, I liked the movie. It was cool. Of course, movies don't scare me so it lacked that part; but it was interesting.

"you'll say anything to win an argument won't you?" Yeah. I shouldn't lie. I use one rule. :cool:

"I would say only poor role-players need rules to play .. " Good to know. I never use rules in my games. Just guidelines. Next.

"Torment uses the BG engine (Infinity) but has a far superior storyline." No; but nontheless it's good. Also try VBL, and Arcanum. These are also good darn games along with the FOs and Ultimas that Ender mentioned. And, oh, hi.

Only poor role-players allow any amount of rules to ruin their role-playing.

"If you set a PnP game in FR or GH, you could just read the sourcebook and then know everything there is about the setting. Boring. The DM can never surprise you this way." Hahahahahahahhahahahahaha. No. You are wrong. Next.

"Just curious what the highest Defense stat you obtained on your main character. My current record is 39, on a 15/8 Guardian/Marauder." Hmm.. I was 35+ (maybe 40; not sure)in KOTO1. With all the new fancy gadgets in KOTOR2; I'm sure you can do better. <>

"D&D however has rules for randomly rolling up your personality bad background." Yes, it does. Fully optional. And, the books even reccommend that in the long run that for all but the truly new beginner; it's best to come up with your own background. The 'random perosnality/backgrounds' are for groups who wnat to quickly get into the game for whatever reason or for run of the mill npcs to fill up that large city. D&D has LOTS of guidelines for how to role-play "properly"; but they're exactly that - guidelines. Youa re the one who is 'qeakly" torlling when you claim that D&D doens't do role-playing and is only roll playing when you CONVINETLY ignore the cocnept of alignment when does focus on how a characetr can act . Changing your alignment is a BIG deal in D&D and characetrs that do it - espicially frequently - will run into lots of trouble - both mecchnaically, and espicially role-playing wise. Unless you only play with horrible DMs who don't enforce the alignment rulez (optional of course like anything in D&D). D&D has as much depth role-playing wise as ANY game if not more so than most. And, it sure as heck doens't force you to role-play a certain way even as a paladin which many awkwardly try to claim is limited. Just playthe 'famous' D&D module Dragon Mountian for one different take of a paladin. Face it. The afct you think D&D is poor role-playing makes YOU a troll since its a comment designed to make soemthing up to get a reaction out of epople who know better than believe such nonsense. Peace. Or War. Both work for me. :D

BOS is better than FOT. It was actually fun in an actiony way. In some ways it was better than BGDA2. I'll probably buy it when it lowers in price - too short o pay full. FOT was ultimately unfilling and I regret that purchase even though I paid like $10 for it.