Kalfear

I havent heard any valid substantiation yet Azure. Thing that gets me about this (and causes me to dismiss the complaints) is IF its truely a design flaw, it would be happening to EVERYONE that bought a XBox 360. And its not! Last I heard it was something like 1 machine outta every 2000-3000 sold. I suspect we will hear alot more about this topic in coming months and wouldnt be half surprised if machines effected were actually took apart by owners LOOKING for flaws and accidently creating them themselves by doing so. As I said, if it was a machine flaw, it would be happening to everyone (or at least a majority).

I fully expect PCs will again become the item to have for gamers. But it will be AFTER the consoles have had their turn at it. Gaming always goes in cycles, systems, types of games, who they designed for, ect. So dont expect PC games to the most popular or most designed for, for at least 5 years. We are entering the era of the console right now. When that fad dies off, maybe PCs will again become king. Personally Im hoping for more mainstream VR myself, when the next cycle comes.

I wish people would quit saying the old system was level based. It wasnt. I just finished a replay of K1 and you didnt need to get a level to advance storyline or communications with party members. You just needed to do a none generic combat/xp encounter. IE: Stuck with a characters backstory while on dant, go solve the investigation, go save juhari, go do sandral quest, go do crystal cave, ect. Any ONE of those things (set encounters) will let you advance party members backstories if they are grouped with you when you do it. Levels played no role what so ever in advanceing the storyline. I had Carths (excluding saving son)/Missions (excluding saving brother), and Canderous's (excluding Jari) full story before I left Dant. I had the love scene (last thing bastila says until Leviathon excluding mother side quest) on the Ebon Hawk when we arrived at tant (1st planet I visited after dant). The old system was to linear and far far far far far to easy to acheive!

*gasp* I agree with Volo here. *To get serious on topic and stop joking around like other posts here by me* Fanism happens at all developer boards as the fans of that particular brand are whats attracted there. For example Blizzard boards. Go there and say something bad about WOW and you will get your life threatened! LOL. Insulting Blizzard on Blizzard boards is like burning a bible during a sunday mass in church. Their followers and moderators/developers are fanatics and lunitics! I dont actually find Bio boards to be to bad, but I enjoy and appreciate active moderation thats concistant. Maybe Bio are a little heavy handed, but they are consistant in that heavy handedness. Also, Ive said negative stuff about aspects of their games and never been censored or had a topic locked there (certainly never been banned). I think its more how you present your arguement then it is what your arguement is. The posters are definately pro Bioware and usually following dont take critism well, but thats their posters, not their representative (IE: Moderators and developers). I know Volo and I had a long debate regarding JE and K1 there citing the good and the bad and insulting (jokingly) each other. We never got censored or banned. Got a warning to calm it down once, but beyond that the mods and developers were right in there with us as long as it stayed in "good taste".

Wow no flames *Im shocked and appreciative!* As I said, I knew saying it wouldnt be popular but I have the benefit of having seen it in action so know the difference it can make, really until you can say that first hand, its just seculation on your part. What irony? Explain please? Not following your statement at all Im afraid. Anyone else have any idea what Con meant by that? Also, as I said Vol, im speaking in a broad generic term. I also have seen mature kids and immature adults. But on a whole neither make up for the majority of their age groups.I know a 10 year old (guild members grand daughter) who is more mature then most of us and a smarter player (lol and better typer). But she in no way represents the majority of 10 year olds. Conversly I knew a 30 year old in UO that, for what ever reason I STILL dont understand to this day, thought running a ingame guild was an indication of REAL LIFE power. Again though, he didnt represent the mass majority of his age group. When you speak in generalizations there will always be exceptions to the statements, no matter what topic. PS: Also, its not as if I ever expect it to happen. MMORPG companies are like any company and are looking at bottom line and revenues. Cutting out the 1 - 25 years old would cause to much lost revenue to ever actually be done in todays gaming market. Over the years ive seen some pretty dispicable acts done by the teen age crowd in MMORPGs that I can cite as examples. Things that go far beyond the realm of even bad taste humor. As a Long time guild master of a LARGE popular MMORPG guild (the first guild made in MMORPGs) I can say, easily 90% of those people Ive had to toss from guild for conduct unbecoming a member have been age 25 or less. Thats a figure that applies to other guilds over the years as well that I have interacted with when speaking to there guildmasters as well. Age and maturity are not SPECIFICALLY applicable togather, but when used as a generalization, they sure are! Worse act I ever saw (not first hand ) happened in UO but was the real start to older vrs younger that I can remember carrying real passion regarding the point: 2, 16 year olds thought it would be great fun to trap a female player using a sandbag exploit (anyone that played early UO knows what Im refering to about sandbag exploit). After trapping this female player they proceeded to cyber rape her. Turns out their victim was a 12 year old who became so upset and flustered she didnt even think to just log out, and sat there not understanding what she had done crying in real life. Her father hearing this noise came into the room to see what these two kids were typing, logged the chat dialog and logged his tramatized child out of game. When he reported them (and cancelled accounts) to Origin they were banned which rallied the teen age community to their defence about how being banned over "Cyber Raping" was outragious as no harm was done (in their veiw). But in all seriousness, the damage had been done so banning them was just lip service after the fact, nothing more, and a clear example why just banning after the fact doesnt solve the problem always. This story was actually picked up by major news media back then as until then, players never tried such indecent and obviously wrong (and immature) acts of cyber violence in games. How do I know it was teen agers sticking up for the two? Thats easy, Almost every poster ADMITTED real age in posts as it was the real start of older vrs younger players. The older more mature crowd understood how this action damaged gaming in general while the younger crowd thought it was fine and acceptable, in poor taste but grossly over reacted. They lacked the maturity and life experience to understand how wrong something like this truely was. Every time I read WOW boards im reminded of that story as that mind set is so prevelent over there (but with out the outrage found a decade ago). Im FAR FAR FAR from being a prude, but even I feel dirty when I read WOW boards and am semi ashamed to be a gamer because it means im defacto associated to such people (use that term loosely). PS: Also, as I said, MMORPGs can be addictive (more so then a Multiplayer game or PC/console offline game). Its easy to loose yourself in them. It doesnt represent some weakness of the individual any more so then becoming addicted to drugs, alcohol, smoking, ect does. So by removing the ability to play until 25 takes away the temptation for those that should be focusing on school and studies and other such things. An extream solution? Sure is. Does every one under 25 get addicted? No Way. But enough do, so to me (as ultimately MMORPGs are unimportant in grand scheme of things and not some important life changing value or right), removing the potential problem is a good thing over all.

I voted Malacor V. Its like SWG, loads of potential but ultimately was untapped and bland. Could have been sooooo much better!

Not quoting yas Battle as that post of yas didnt quite work out so just replying. 1) I didnt say every line had to advance storyline, but YOU did say her first 5 lines were generic lines which they were not! Dont try to change meaning of question to suit new answer 2) I agree if the character is interesting. Bastila wasnt at start of game. Meeting her was a major disappointment other then how well she was drawn and that deep but sexy english accent. 3) Recent can mean anything, what? 1 - 2 years is still recent when speaking of a entire planet being wiped out! I could make anouther real life example but that subject still touchy to many so will leave it at that instead outta respect. 4) Plot hole? Please Explain. Recent could mean 1-2-3-4 years. Hell could mean 9 years for that matter. It was a MAJOR MAJOR act of destruction. Larger the act, longer it stays relevant. 5)a week or a month? Ummm thats called a Coo (sp?). Not a political take over which is what is happening on Onderon. The general is trying to take over through the political structure and that takes time. When you speak to the city folk they tell you about how everyone taking sides and why. Those type of attitudes are fostered and grown, someone just taking over in a week or month doesnt get that type of support unless the people are majorly upset with current political figure head (which wasnt the case in Onderon). 6) Hey, I already admitted and agreed Obsidian rushed Visas story so why keep going back to it????? As for no love??? Sorry, the reasoning behind the love was a hell of alot clearer then the reasoning behind Bastilas and Revans in K1. And you DIDNT understand why Handmaiden was upset??????? Ummm were you playing with subtitles tyrned off and sound on mute???? SHE TELLS YOU IN THE CUT SCRENE EXACTLY WHY!!!!! How could you not understand??? Sorry, think your grasping at straws now. 7) I understand Visas, she had a great worked out character, an interesting and relevant storyline, an incredible voice, and was drawn well. Same goes for Handmaiden, her story dragged you in. Between the duels and meaning behind them, her constant inner battle with wanting to stay loyal to Atris but seeing first hand as flats and holes in Atris's philosiphy started to appear, her jealousy of Visas. It was just a amazingly well done storyline. LOL, ok she was a padawen, still wasnt in thick of things as you originally stated 9) Woops, she perservered for a day. My mistake! LOL! Weak mind? What about her valted jedi training! ROFL! 10) Ya she jumped into battle on leviathon. I admit that does go against my theory. All I can counter with is she knew (as we all did) she wouldnt be killed because of battle meditation so unlike Visas offering her life (KNOWING it meant death) Bastila offered herself knowing she would survive. 11) One thing bothers me with your statement here. This topic is Visas vrs Bastila regarding sex appeal/romance side game (or at least thats how it reads to me) because Visas wasnt actually Bastilas counter for storyline conversations. If your speaking of storyline prominence. Bastila should be compared to Kreia, not Visas. Based on appearence in game and storyline (not romance side story but actual imput into storyline) IE: Carth vrs Atton Bastila vrs Kreia Visas vrs Juhari Mission vrs Mira you get picture. So yes, storyline wise, Bastila has far more to say then Visas. Visas actual conversation storyline is short but sweet. But if you ignore all the other stuff and focus on ROMANCE ONLY storyline, Visas outdoes Bastila 10 fold. Maybe thats why Bastila comes of so plain, shes wearing to many hats? So to speak. Kreia by far has more lines and more relevance then Bastila does. PS: Thank god Kreia not the romance angle of K2 LOL! 12) what yas got against Brad :PPPPPPP heheh 13) I agree on Mira, she was great, I wish she had been a 3rd romance option! Im not that old dammit! Don't you think it's satisfying/gratifying to fall in love and win the heart of a beautiful Jedi... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure do, thats why I prefer Visas and dont understand the Bastila Fanism hehe errr LOL, I hope you dont think our going back and forth is actually seriously upseting any of us! This just a fun debate thats stayed on topic The debate itself is whats fun! ROFLMAO! Finally someone speaks the truth with out making up exagerated and unsupported reasons!!!!!!!! Grats Schmarth, I cant argue your reasoning! hehe

That only happened after they went to the monthly rate alan, before (when it was hourly) there was never a Queue at all. As I said, the community went into the toilet after they went with monthly rate as it opened the doors to the under 25 year old crowd. That crowd brought with them PKing, D00dism, mass exploiting, ect and pretty much ruined community for all. NWN didnt last long after going flat monthly rate before AOL pulled the plug on game. Almost immediately, NWs were to busy handling complaints, watching for exploiters and hackers to run ANY events at all, so game lost one of its biggest draws with in a month of going a flat monthly rate. Was a real shame! Course on flip side, never seeing a $1000.00/month + bill was a bonus! Those freaking hurt let me tell yas! LOL Actually knew folks that had $1600.00/month (american) bills from playing game! It added up so quickly it w as easy to let it get outta hand. MMORPGs HAD to move to a flat monthly fee, that was obvious, just doing so opened the door for ALOT of lesser quality (personality wise) players. Those players now plauge all MMORPGs sadly. I really think, any and all MMORPGs should remain $15.00-$20.00 / month flat fee but should have a minimum age limit of 25 on them! Not only to get rid of kids (which in all fairness doesnt mean EVERY kid is bad, or ever adult is good, just the majority in a generalized way of speaking) but also to ensure college and university students dont fall into the MMORPG addiction trap. I know someone will flame me for this but I truely dont think the under 25 crowd are mentally mature enough for games that rely on mass interaction and have no true law system to police their conduct.

LOL! Tell yas what Hades! Ill support yas against Bio fanboies when IF you can get rid of all the Carth and Bastila Fanboi's (and girls) here! heh

LOL Jedis always sucked at combat until they became Jedi Knights. Was stupid, you work your arse off to get Padawen and then 10 Bounty hunters exploit the game and kill you back to level 0 padawen every time you go outside! It was only when IF you managed to reach Knight status you could actually defend yourself.

Best MMORPG for me was still the first one Neverwinter Nights on AOL (1989-1995). Mostly because of community though and staff interaction. Every couple days a staffer (called a NW) would run a booth or event of some kind which were ALOT of fun. PvP was also different back then, only a really small minority got their kicks outta forcing other people into pvp, most folks approached it as a tactical challenge and a test of skill. Being max level and killing a low level was unheard of as it was no challenge. Today, kids think thats the ultimate experience. The community was also really different then what you experience today online. Alot of that was probably because NWN was 2.95/hour to play so you didnt have the 12-20 kiddies crowding up the server as the price was outta their range. Most folks were 25+ and there to have fun WITH others rather then at the expence of others (as is so common today in MMORPGs). When NWN eventually switched to monthly rates the quality of the game sank to all time lows and quickly died! It was a definate sigh of things to come (and they did come). Really was a totally different experience and Im kinda sad that players today will never experience something as fun, exciting, and enjoyable as those times in modern day MMORPGs. PS: WOW is the McDonalds of MMORPGs! Terribly cheap quality, but hugely hugely popular! Ratings of other MMORPGs Ive tried over the Years: *disclaimer, these are all games I have played and MY opinion on them. MY opinion might not match yours so keep your panties on!* Rated on a scale of 1 to 10! The Realms: 7/10 Meridian 59: 4/10 UO: 5/10 EQ: 7/10 Ashrons Call: 3/10 Dark Age of Camalot: 8/10 Star Wars Galaxies: 3/10 Anarcy Online: 4/10 Eve Online: 5/10 WoW: 1/10 EQ2: 5/10 FFXI: 3/10 Twilight Lands: 2/10 Think im forgetting a couple now but there yas go off top of my head LOL, in case yas havent noticed I been playing MMORPGs for over 15 years now!

I like the volcanic world in Episode 3, The Bug/Droid world in Episode 2, And the water world were cloning city is /and Mannan water world. The normal cities just dont impress me much other then artitecture. Naboo, Dant, Tant were also ok but then I played SWG and learned to hate them

ROFLMGDAO!!! Thank You Darkside! Thank You so so much! LOL You just made my point in different thread PS: Carth was to whinny though! Carth reminds me of a childhood friend I once had! He hit on a girl at a party, got turned down, and walked 10 miles home in the snow with no shoes on POUTING over it! *sadly Im not making that story up*

If your characterization of Bastila was correct, why did she serve the Republic on the front lines, voluntarily (the Jedi aren't the army after all), and with distinction for two years before the events of the game? The Sith were winning even then. No matter how good she thought she was, she knew she was putting her life on the line with every battle. She did get some recognition from her actions, and maybe scoring points with her Jedi masters, but if your characterization of her was correct, how would a little fame compare with survival? It's not like defecting to the Sith would have been hard. Apparently, even during the war, civillian ships could travel between Republic and Sith worlds (like, for example, Koriban) with ease, and the Republic/Jedi would have no reason to keep her confined or under surveillance. LOL, she didnt serve on frontlines, she stayed behind the scene to use her battle meditation EXCEPT for the assult on Revans ship where they captured Revan. so sorry, she wasnt in the thick of things as you state. Also you misrepresent what I said, what I said was when Bastila is forced into a situation (IE: being captured) thats when her survival instincts kick in and loyalty holds no sway. When faced with join or die choices. She ALWAYS chooses join (or subservant) rather then stand up for her supposive confictions. Visas on other hand, choose to die (well offered it anyways) so Exile could defeat Nimbus. Her loyalties were stronger then her will to continue living. The makings of a REAL hero and ROLE MODEL! MAJOR KEY DIFFERENCE between the two! Wont argue Vulkars with you, go replay game. She FIRST states she could have escaped anytime and then LATER begrudgingly admits she needed help but her original statements were already made! Unlike Visas who is honest with you from the get go and not into childish games. BTW: Still looking for a LEGIT reason for all this Bastila fanism! No ones supported their claim at all yet regarding her popularity.

Carth (in normal whining voice) goes on about not trusting and yada yada yada. Revan and Exile : If you feel that way just leave then Carth: Fine I will (Carth exits from game and is never heard from again). Bastila: Canderous has truely created enough of a force to over take the republic! Canderous: Let me guess, you want to join the mandalorians now? Bastila: Yes Master! *go read Visas vrs Bastila if you dont understand that one*

Generic? Lets see, when you first meet Visas she speaks about 1) her master (pretty important) 2) Why shes here (pretty important) 3) How she found you (super important) 4) Forshadows that you will meet her master eventually (huge forshadowing) 5) Why she is loyal to you (pretty important) just saying something is "general" doesnt make it so. Visas dialog was definately to compacted by Obsidian (should have been spread out more) but NOTHING she says is just general stuff, everything had relivance to the storyline. Compared to Bastilas first five statements: 1) Berates you saying you didnt save her 2) Berates you for not having a plan in place beyond rescuing her sorry arse 3) Argues about who is leader 4) Whines about Carth berating her for being so obnoxious and egotistical 5) finally admits you saved her in a LESS then convincing voice LOL, (sarcasm) WOW, Bastila did add alot to the storytline after all! ROFL! also not true, you hear of the destruction on Kattar while on Peragus and even then its refered to as a PAST happening, not centuries old but a good year or so. So its not as fresh as you make it out. Remember, K2 happens (if I remember previous Obsidian statements correctly) 5-10 years AFTER K1 ends. So Kattar had to happen and THEN Jedi spread out and set up bases (Kavar says as much, "after Kattar, those of us that survived seperated and agreed to meet back on Dantoine if our enemy exposes himself). That means that Kattar happened and then there was a period of time before these happenings. Also General whats his name (Onderon) joined forces with the unseen sith AFTER Kattar, and thats when his plan went into motion. Or do you think he just put his people under military rule and blockaded the planet from the republic in a day? PS: The fact you can grow s uch an attachment to Visas so quickly is a compliment to Obsidian and their creation of her. A complete character that sparked interest backed up by the storyline. With Bastila, all the claims regarding her are not backed up by the storyline, its just wishful thinking so to speak. How people see her here and how shes actually protrayed are two drastically different ideals.

Sorry Hades, never read mentioned forums so cant lend support to what I know nothing of Course im more then a little ticked with Obsidians forums here to be honest and a PM I received from a mod telling me K3 topics have no place here (but Civ 4, impregnating rabbits topics, ect do) in the > OTHER GAMES > COMPUTER AND CONSOLE section of these forums and being told to go post at LA forums instead by the mod! So sticking up for Obsidian forums right now would be less then genuine to be honest, on my part!

Oh and your welcome for the article. Actually since this PC appears to run stuff pretty well I might sign up for the free trial if I can find some spare time next week. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I quit just before they made the latest big changes and everything they had done before the last big change was to make it LESS solo friendly. SWG should be a great grouping game but with interface and how it works its not. So once solo play was removed, I left. Its sad really, SWG still has the most potential of ANY MMORPG (including WoW) on the market but Sony has failed to realize that potential from day one. Its just a really bad product run by folks that are even worse! Really dont expect that to change to be honest, SOE has no clue what their doing, the few players they do listen to are only out for themselves and NEVER suggest stuff good for over all game, and its based on a updated version of the old UO engine which had limitations at the best of times. Im still hoping LA will realize this and contract someone like Obsidian or Bioware to make a NEW Star Wars MMORPG based on the KotoOR time era and style. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As I understand it LA are responsible for the changes not SOE. Although it was just something I read (about them only providing on the tech side of things) so could well be wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As I said Shadow, I wasnt there for latest round of changes so those very well could be LA driven, but the changes that removed soloability prior to to my leaving were thought up and implimented by SOE and their limited focus groups of VETRAN ONLY players. That much im 1000% sure of. It was terrible changes that drastically changed the economy so ONLY long term players with already existing enormous bank rolls could move forward. Its one of the aspects that was changed yet again in this latest change from what I read so only lasted 5 months before LA forced them to change. But was enough to let me know SWG was doomed to failure no matter what. Really all one needs to do is sit down and read the SOE Forums for SWG to see how utterly downwards SOE and their hand picked player support are void of good ideas and concepts. It amazed me that after so many years in MMORPG, SOE still not able to seperate and find those players that look at all the angles and those players that make suggestions to benefit themselves only. Far as SOE concerned, you CANT teach and old monkey new tricks. PS: Eve online is unlike anything you have ever seen before. I tried it and it didnt take at all, but I do have a number of friends that love the game. Its really one of those games you have to try and see for yourself. Nothing you read or hear will accurately prepare you for the game.

Foxdez, that is exactly the point. Only lame jedi like Bastila and Anakin will fall to the darkside because of love. All the other pimp LS/grey Jedi like Exile, Revan, and Jolee have no problem with love and are actually motivated by it. You have to be a real loser to love somebody and then kill them (anakin) or try to kill them and fail (bastila) The thing about Visas is, her personality reveals no real cruelty or hate as one would expect from a sith. Even though she claims to be a sith, at heart, it doesn't seem that way. even when you go darkside, she doesn't display debauchery or a survival of the fittest sith attitude. Basically everyone replying here but you thinks Visas is better. And about love. Why else would one do charitable acts for others? there is no reason to, it would make no sense unless you were to gain something for yourself, and that is rarely the case during one's lifetime. Without love you just have selfishness and/or hate. Kalfear, i liked that scene with the handmaiden too. i agree with your rating of which scenes were better in the order you did. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL (just to expand on Blanks statement), should also point out, Anakin didnt fall to the darkside because of love, he wanted the power to save her, not hurt her, anouther key difference between Anakin and Bastila, (which was a darkside power, which is funny as its a universal power in K2) sure. But it was politics and religion, not love that eventually pushed him over the edge. He turned to SAVE (in his eyes) the republic, or more specifically, what he thought a better form of governing that helps the people overall. After that he became Darth Vader and evil but up to the actual turn, he thought he was helping, not hurting. Basically he became what we commonly refer to as Fanatics (be it religion or politics). The love part was really only a side story in the whole picture and didnt actually cause any real issues until he forsaw Padama's death in childbirth, so he fought to save her. Also remember, he didnt hurt Padama (in action or words) until after he had turned, commited terrible acts of death and violence, AND thought she had betrayed him. He was already twisted by the time he actually hurt her. Not to mention Anakins fall took careful planning and dubious pushes to achieve by Palpatine. It also wasnt an over night thing, and there was ALOT more at stake then Anakins own survival involved. Bastila cant hold on to any of those reasons, she DIDNT turn to make the world a better place (even using flawed logic like Anakin was), and she DIDNT turn back to the lightside because she realized what she was doing was wrong. The wellfare of the people never entered the equation, she had no great love for the people at any time. Only HER own personal desires, goals, and will to survive at any cost or alligence. Hell, im pretty sure if the Mandalorians had won the war she would have been a dutiful mandalorian wife/slave. Her loyalties layed with who was winning and would keep her alive. Everything else, her family, teachers, friends, and general population came well behind her first and formost priority, survive at any cost regardless of what type of survival it is. LOL, dig even further into that mind set. Her passive capture by the Vulkars just proves the point. She thought she was alone on Taris so rather then try to escape (which she stated she could have done anytime at all) she accepted the role of captive and slave UNTIL Revan showed up and she realized she wasnt alone. Only then did she fight back against her captures. Again seeing you were going to win so she CHOSE the winning side. Think about it, if she cared what so ever for the jedi order and truely believed Revan and Carth died on the ship (as she thought) would it not have been in the Jedi's best interest to be notified of this? Yet she ignored that fact and just accepted the role of Captive and slave until someone stronger then her captives came along! Jedi best interest didnt enter the equation, only her self survival did. LOL, I dont understand where Bastila gets this huge fan base from, I really dont, she was a flawed jedi from the start. Hell she was a flawed person from the start! Only things she truely had going for her was she was drawn VERY well and had a great voice added to her! If you read about her in a book (having never played K1) she would come off as a less then likeable (or memorable) character.

True enough, but if you remember in the med bay after you defeat Visas, her body shows signs of long abuse and scaring so that does suggest her turning took more then a couple days, least it does to me. Course Nimbus was 100000 times more brutal as a master and sith lord then Malak was so could have been caused after she was turned to remind her. hmmm, some how none of that compares to the destruction of ones homeworld and ALL relatives in my book. I could understand Visas being turned, but the death of Bastila's father came from his own doing, not Malak's, Destruction of Dantooine sure, but they were at war. It wasnt as if Malak didnt know about the enclave there. It was an obvious tactic to be used. Her circumstances were, the side she was on was losing so she changed sides in a heart beat once the oppertunity presented itself. Even on the Star Forge if you want to argue she hated Malak even while on his side, she could easily have been his undoing while alone and doing battle meditation (at the cost of her life) instead she didnt change back until it was obvious Revan was going to face and defeat Malak, once again hopping to the winning side when the opertunity presented itself. True Fox, but we all learn how devoted Bastila really is to those Jedi teachings later on in the story dont we Should also say, think back to when you RESCUE Bastila from the swoop gangs, her reaction to that was clear indication that this was a flawed Jedi from the start and one not strictly following the jedi code. Lastly (on relations) when Bastila does finally accept (and not run away) her emotions (on Star Forge) she tells you she has decired you for long before this started, once again showing shes not 100% Jedi Code follower for a real jedi would think it once or twice and over come those feelings. Course the whole "thou shall not love" thing the Jedi have going has always seemed stupid to me to be honest. I dont think Malak "Convinced or pursuaded" the Exile to goto war, I think the Exile choose to go because he could no longer stand by while worlds suffered at the hands of the Mandalorians. After all, the Exile refused to follow Revan or Malak once that threat was removed. So Malaks ability to pursuade (which you drastically over stated, Malak was brute force, not leadership and thinking ability, Revan was the thinker) really doesnt play into it, Exile just did what he felt was right. Id go so far as to say, Darth Vader was more a thinker and more likely to pursuade someone with out using force then Malak ever was. Was Visas a sith though? Now its you jumping to conclusions At no time is any sith activity ever associated to Visas, she was how ever a Sith Lords slave. When the chance (the Exile) presented itself, she didnt try to kill her master and take his role as the sith teachings say. In fact she offers her life so the Exile can win (very unsithlike). I do think she misunderstood the "wound" or "echo" in the force for Love at the start of the game though. But in her defence, after being a slave to something as brutal as Nimbus for so long and then spared and healed and taken care of, you could understand her misunderstanding of the subject. Over time the real connection started to grow until finally the force shareing (which was a tasteful way of having the act of sex in game) happened. (IE: Ob sidian rushed her story to much in how fast you could get it all, they should have slowed down and let many of her lines appear after some time spent with the Exile). LOL, and what happens next? Frankly it all depends on who you talk to. some say Ebon hawk and crew died (I hate that one) some say Exile would hook up with Visas Some say Exile would hook up with Handmaiden Some say Exile would hook up with both (my fav! LOL) And even others say Exile goes back into Exile now he understands his powers are from the powers of others draining them (like Nimbus but on a person to person level rather then planet wide level). Future is hardly clear from what I saw PS: I felt more gratification from Handmaiden then Visas or Bastila when she told me her real name! That one scene was hands down the best of any of them as it protrayed more trust and real emotion then any kiss, force sharing, or just saying "I love you" could as the back story explained so well WHY it was so important a sacrafice on Handmaidens part. Second though was definately the force sharing. Altho Im always in favor of more adult content in game (not porn but adult graphics or speach that fit adult situations if that makes any sence) I was glad Obsidian did it that way as it had more aura or feeling to it. Bastila's 2 romance sceens were well done as well (dont mistake thinking I hated them) but lacked presence when compared to the other two.

Oh and your welcome for the article. Actually since this PC appears to run stuff pretty well I might sign up for the free trial if I can find some spare time next week. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I quit just before they made the latest big changes and everything they had done before the last big change was to make it LESS solo friendly. SWG should be a great grouping game but with interface and how it works its not. So once solo play was removed, I left. Its sad really, SWG still has the most potential of ANY MMORPG (including WoW) on the market but Sony has failed to realize that potential from day one. Its just a really bad product run by folks that are even worse! Really dont expect that to change to be honest, SOE has no clue what their doing, the few players they do listen to are only out for themselves and NEVER suggest stuff good for over all game, and its based on a updated version of the old UO engine which had limitations at the best of times. Im still hoping LA will realize this and contract someone like Obsidian or Bioware to make a NEW Star Wars MMORPG based on the KotoOR time era and style.

Like Vashanti said, Visas is a woman undone. Her planet and all she cared about was destroyed and she is a forced apprentice/slave to Nihilus. She had no reason left to live and went to find the exile, but because the exile spares her after the battle, and because she sees the exile as a reason to live, then it makes sense that she is always in servitude and ends up loving him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well said Blank and Vashanti I never EVER thought of Visas as weak btw. Shes protecting the Exile. She says from the get go that her master and the Exile will meet and its her job to make sure HEs (gender neutrality is stupid, you dont call a cat a dog after all) ready and can win when that time comes. Bastila on other hand was just pushy, egotitical, and obnoxious for 1/2 of K1 and then became TOTALLY the stereotype of weak willed and subservant in the last half. Lets see the comparison. Ego: Bastila thinks she is the savior of the republic Visas really doesnt have a ego Reaction to adversity Visas homeworld destroyed, shes enslaved and over YEARS slowly being broken until she becomes subservant to Nimbus. When Visas does eventually face Nimbus, she either stands up to him or makes the ultimate sacrafice (herself) to save the one she loves. Bastila blames everything on her mother and then seriously conciders with holding the last remaining effect of her father from her EVEN after learning the truth! (IE: Bitter and whinny brat that desperately needs a spanking). When Bastila eventually faces Malak, shes broken in record time and then is turned against her new master in even shorter time proving once and for all she has no will of her own and no spine! She just goes with who ever she thinks will win. Obnoxious: See pretty much any early quote by Bastila Visas has no obnoxiousness in her personality Relationship: When the attraction becomes appearent, Bastila runs and hides from her feelings Visas on other hand makes no excuses and stands by her convictions and goes after what she wants, and doesnt run away when she gets it! So in the end, Visas stands by her man not as a slave but as his protector, willing to sacrafice everything she is for that love Bastila jumps sides at a heart beat based on who she thinks will win, loyal ties and relations be damned! Personally, I think Visas a far better female role model then some spoiled, mouthy child.

Though I think they mentioned wounds and such far to much in the dialog, over all I like the wound or echo in the force idea! Its an interesting idea/concept and fit well into the Star Wars theme. Even though I hate K2s ending, Im SO FREAKING glad Obsidian didnt just turn out anouther grade school storyline that Star Wars in whole has becoming! K2 adds some grit to Star Wars. Its not all pure goodie vrs ultimate baddie with the fate of the republic in the balance and the hero gets the girl, rehashed and blended over and over! K2 made you think about the storyline, in many of the conversation settings I found myself taking the neu tral path rather then the goodie path BECAUSE YOU WERE ALLOWED TO! I seriously think to many people just looking for your basic fantasy/sci fi - romance setting (K1) thats been done so many times before its old and boring! Open your minds to new ideas people! I still prefer playing th e goodie in games but even the best goodie doesnt ALWAYS choose the perfect goodie option, and Obsidian took that into account and should be congradulated for doing so IMO.

hmmm weird, I cant find any option to install it into him so its just sitting in inventory right now! ahhh well, thanks

well i'll deffinatly keep my eye out for side quests, and random drops of them thanks for the info! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think its just random I got one early in game this time and then anouther by looting the royal treasury on Onderon this game! Other games, never saw one at all.