The Great Phantom

Well, A lot of this is explained through. <<<< MAJOR SPOILER ALERT >>>> A lot are explained right before you turn them into Jedi. I should also mention these are from light side point of few. Imagine the dark side versions are just the exile abusing the force bond ^_^. I always believe that the exiles special power was different depending on your side... dark to control, light to inspire. But thats just my opinion. :D When you talk to Atton about his past, towards the very end (right before you can make him a jedi), He tells you about the Women who let him feel the force (right before he killed her). He also tells you that Revan was taking people to a special place to "break" those who were force sensitive. Atto realized that once the sith found out about him, they would take him there... and there would be no turning back. So he left the sith. He always considered what the jedi had done for him a waste... Until he meets the Exile on the Mining station. He believes this is the reason the jedi saved him, so he could help the exile. Like Atton, Bao-dur explains his reasons before becoming a Jedi aswell. He thinks about what he did on Malachor (spelled wrong probably) a lot... as he explains in several conversations you have with. Before you turn him into a Jedi he tells you, that with you (the exile) he feels he might be able to make a difference, and maybe, just maybe he will be able to gain redemption. Mira... Well, to be honest... I never did quiet understand anything about her. I didn't like the character very much, so I kinda ignored her ^^. But she does mention, that she no longer wants to feel alone. She is the most reluctant to become a jedi, but the exile reasures her that if she becomes one, she will never be alone. Visas. Well, other then showing her complete kindness after defeating her. She tells you that there is a greatness in the exile, something that does not come from the force, but from who he is. She also seeks to understand (like krea, and the jedi masters) how the exile managed to live without the force. She describes living without the force as... "being abondoned by life itself..." And, towards the very end, she says she is in love with the exile. Because the both of them, have been horribly scared from so many deaths happening around them. Also, that in the exile, she sees that that living without the force, might not be as horrible as everyone thinks. As for Handmaiden, I didn't use her too much. Her reasons were the most unclear to me. She has a lot of respect for the exile, despite what Atris had told her about him. As you defeat her in the duals, she begins to question the exile (about the force). And as you gain influence to her, you find out that her Mother was a Jedi Knight. As far as I can tell.... She wants to learn the way so the jedi... I really didn't pay much attention, so I can't offer any more info ; ; - Also didn't atris send her to spy on the exile? or did i just missunderstand? HK-47 Likes to fight. He also needs you to hunt down the HK clones, though this was cut. T3-M4. This is a special droid. Even Bao-Dur mentions how he acts strangely, even for a droid... He also lies... To help his friends ofcourse . It's very possible that Carth or Bastilla sent the droid to help the exile. Carth known about the exiles presents from the very begining, so it's possible thats why t3 is onboard. And now Kreia... Unlike what a lot of you think... I don't believe she is evil, and I didn't see her as the obvious sith lord. Would you not trust someone who teaches you? Protects you? Shows you the path to your destiny? Kreia wanted to understand how the exile lived without the force. As she metions, the Jedi Masters could never accept that fact, because them to them, living without the force is death. <<<< END SPOILERS >>>> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once again, people fill in the details I was too lazy to type out. I will elaborate on the Handmaiden and Kreia for you. The Handmaiden was the daughter of and Echani warrior 'king' and his affair with a Jedi woman. That is why she is different from her sisters. She joins the Exile for many reasons: She sees in the Exile what she saw in her father after the Mandalorian Wars, and she is curious. She wants to preserve the Jedi teachings, and the Exile can teach her. She also is obviously attracted to the Exile, but Force Bonds may help this. At least with Visas, she assures you that it is her choice to follow you. The Handmaiden only assures you that it is her choice that she breaks her oath and becomes a Jedi, not that she follows you ENTIRELY out of her own will. Kreia is more of a Dark Jedi Witch. She does not follow the traditional Sith search for power, but is more cautious and manipulative. Her goal is not power, but the Death of the Force, and all that feel it. This would end up disastrous, and in the end, suicidal. She is odd... She wants to destroy the Force because of the fact that it is 'controlling' people, and causing their deaths. BUT: Handmaiden and Visas tell you, when asked, that there is ALWAYS choice. (Underline the ALWAYS). In the end, Kreia is technically insane. She may have started off right, and trying to demonstrate the fact that the Jedi Council prevents people from being Human, which both the Exile and Revan comment on at one point or another. I think that the point of Malachor V was, in the end, served. Probably a little too well, in fact. It created Echoes, and all affected by it did as well. It may be Kreia's fault if the 'True Sith' decide to attack, because of the massive beacon she helped create. We'll just have to wait to find out, won't we? <_<

I think that tmp is right. It was basically Kreia spelling out her master plan, assuming that the Exile would actually be smart enough to pick up on it... I guess most people weren't...

Yeah, there was no secret puzzles throughout the game like in Kotor I.

I was thinking of going into the industry in a couple of years, as well...

Um, Odds are as long as I have the graphics I can do it in Java in the span of a couple Hours. Tic Tac Toe is not exactly something all that complicated... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So could I, even if I had to make the graphics. BUT, try doing it with a 30 hour long game, in 3D, with thousands of possible combinations for hundreds of different locations, and it could take months or a year or two, if they debug it right.

I was referring to her suicidal need to destroy the Force, and everything that it touches.

Agree. Disagree. Mira have a problem with killing people and she starts to kill under the Exile orders. Either is the force bound (I disagree since she did not knew the Exile that well before joining) or because The Exile is a natural leader and she follows him becaise of that. Disagree. You only get Handmaiden if you are male so it means one thing, she is attracted to him. She also wants to follow her mother path, the Exile is (or was) a Jedi capable of teaching her down that path. She hides behind her training and there is nothing warrior about following the Exile for her, she loves him and needs him to train her into her mother path. There is a lot of depth into her but you have to really read within the lines to understand her, too bad there is not much dialogue to make that more noticible. Agree to a point. Bao-Dur is following his old friend, of course he is the one more likely to be under the force bound. Kreia is the Exile Mentor, she is trying to mold the Exile into something to serve her purpose. No. Visas sees in the Exile a kindred spirit, they both watched a planet die and Visas wanted to serve the Exile when she seen the Exile the first time in the force (not when they battled in the Hawk). She also sees in him someone that can destroy her former master. She personaly explains why if you are a LS male just before going to see Atris, of all she is the easier to understand because she says everything. I disagreed, I also explained why in brief (perhaps because there is really not that much, I almost turned Mira into a Jedi and I cannot read much out of her except her doubts when mind reading and the others are really not much better except Kreia and Visas for obvious reasons) as the very last thing I think of the characters created by BioWare are anything that can be filled in one liner as to motivation, they are more complex that BioWare characters even if they are not as exposed as BioWare characters ... and that is a flaw. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am sorry. I did not go into great detail. The Handmaiden Curiousity was her want to learn the Jedi techniques and follow the path of her mother: aka, Jedi, lover of a great warrior, etc. The Visas thing was WAY to underdetailed. You corrected the lack of detail, and what you said is what I meant. Kreia did have her purpose, no matter how self-destructive. I just think that she's a little crazy by the end of the game. Just an opinion. :ph34r: Mira STARTS because Exile is her bounty. Why she continues to follow could be why you explained. Like I said, I did not put in near enough detail. Thanks again for filling in the gaps.

Best post I've read in a long time.

You're right. It is Dark Side Marauder. Here is your dark calling. Dark Side Marauder Your bloodlust serves you well. The dark side will lend strength to your body, and fill your mind with thoughts of savage destruction. You are destined to become a dark side marauder -- a living engine of war. Wherever you go, none will be able to stand against you. Even the vaunted Sith will fear your mighty weapons.

They are not very good at looking at the big picture...

Read the sig... I think Handmaiden does, personally... Never tried it on Mira...

Possible Spoiler: Did you have to post four different topics??? lol Nope, either way, their fate is unrevealed. If you're DS, however, then Kreia says how Atton will continue the life of a murderer, and in a galaxy lacking his favorite target, his hunger will consume him... "But I will say no more." Another Nihilus?????

Perhaps I was mistakin when I read the DS source book... I was sure there was a Marauder class somewhere... TO THE BOOK STORE!

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, so I'll just look at some of the things you have said. As a for-fun writer, I can understand some of your complaints. The Amnesia thingy: LA said that Obsidian could have no flashbacks, so allusion was the best thing that they could come up with. They leave it to the player to figure out their past via dialog options. They could have sorta done it different, but I think they did a respectable job. As for the motivation: Force Bonds. That is how Obsidian rationalized it. It does make sense, and many others have hidden motivation. Atton: Redemption. Mira: Bounty Hunting. Handmaiden: Natural Warrior Curiousity. Bao-Dur: Following Orders. Kreia: Send her to the Loony Bin. Visas: Surprised at power, starts off wanting to join the winning side. Did I miss anybody? I think I covered all of the meatbags in the party... except Hanharr: Honorable Defeat (he wants to keep PC strong). These are breif discriptions of possible motivations... They are POSSIBILITIES, not the actual motivations per se. I can see your # 3 complaint as valid... I have yet to find a really good way to have an emotional fulfilling ending to a dark story, though. Usually the motivation of an 'evil' character is revenge, and that can be pretty hard to find emotionally complete... Oh, well. If you hate my ideas, feel free to trash them. :ph34r: Edit: Plus, I expect they wanted a cliffhanger to keep LA in business, as well as Obsidian (since only they obviously know where the story is going <_< ).

That's just creepy... Has anybody gotten Marauder yet??? I'm pretty sure that it still is there...

Do we really need to have this discussion?

Kreia followed Revan. She was his/her Master at one time, and probably understands him better than everybody except for Malak (before he fell). T3 was sent to find the Exile (or Bastila, or another Jedi).

Good way to put it. Alien... P.S.: I want to be Geek of the Week! I got the smilies and everything!

Flogging of a dead horse? I thought it was a cow... They really should have left more pieces behind. Edit: And you asked for the basics. I could go into detail with all the Star Wars references to people that tried to walk the path of indifference. The Korriban Kreia says herself that "Apathy is death...". (Followed by a creepy zombie like echo by everyone else)

Yep... Iridonia (is that what it's called?) is one of the Zabrak home worlds, I believe. I'm not sure, because I'm not brushed up on the Zabrak Race anymore...

It doesn't change anything as far as I could tell. The dialog options are put there to explain your past to you. I write stories, and make the occasional game (nothing too advanced yet), and the way I tell the background of a key character is either through allusion to their past, or through a flashback. Since Obsidian could not do flashbacks, then allusion was their obvious choice. I may be wrong, but that is what I think would logically take place. I agree that it is annoying that you have to get high amounts of influence with every character to get the whole story, but I don't get why people keep complaining. On my first play through LS, I got max influence with everybody except HK-47, GO-TO, and Bao Dur. I got max w/ Mira, but I payed no attention to her, so she never became a Jedi, caus I never asked. If you're going to play a game, shouldn't you try to get as much playing in? KOTOR II isn't one of those games you can rush through, only covering where you HAVE to go. You need to explore everything, and gain influence with the right people: obviously the ones that know things about your past. I have no complaints about how the story went, even if it was a little rushed. It referred to things that solve the puzzles, and the only parts I disliked were the ending (would "To be continued..." be too difficult???) and the 'missing planet,'

Not poorly executed, just rushed. Even doing most or all of the quests, it only took me 29 hours to beat the game. In Kotor I it took me 45 hours my first play through. It was a good story, you just have to look deep, which most people aren't used to doing.

The Exile vanishing is normal, and is supposedly a sign. The Dialog is odd... I've never seen it.

When fighting Atris, I accidentally ran up to the Holocron room before she ran away. She talked from clear down in the center room, and I answered. Then the door closed and locked me in with the Holocrons, and her trying to find the doorknob... I had to reload, caus the door doesn't open...

Did you really? If so, that's pretty cool! I was the definition of evil. I mocked the Masters when I copied their styles, I threw the final enemy into the pit, I manipulated my party until all exept Handmaiden had DS Mastery.... It was awesome.