dufflover

KotOR II is half assumption (like with most sequel games) and half open. I'll use Jedi Outcast as an example - that assumed you finished Jedi Knight as LS. Now KotOR II was made so you choose how K1 ended, but it only went into as far as I know, they only had the 4 main combinations, Male/Female, Light/Dark. The rest they've assumed, and Bastila being kept alive is of them. I've only played one game of K2 but if Carth is alive even if you choose Female/DS Revan, then that's an incorrect assumption.

Does anyone know of any point-form bug lists all the known Quest bugs? I'm pretty sure there are many "odd" quest bugs but I'm looking for the ones which occur to nearly everyone or at least are well known, such as the "always DNF in swoop racing", or "TSF Escaped Criminals".

I did alot of quicksaving and when bits of history started popping up I would go to the quest thing after I did a save or load. The tidbits were very useful cos I didn't know anything about Malachor - I didn't even know what happened there, or still. The Masters tell you that it was everyone instantly dying but without a reference it's pretty hard to think of it.

Now I (finally) realise that he was that idiot/loser I talked to in the library! (I was LS Male)

One thing I'm sure of this that Obsidian (or LucasArts) left out a lot of the things fans were expecting continued, like Zaalbar leading Kashyyyk, or what happens to Manaan if you poison the Kolto, and for something even more anticipated like the Revan/Bastila romance consequences, they took the "quick-way" out by having Revan go off leaving her behind

When looking in the STREAMVOICES folder, a lot of the cut ending files are in the later folders about the 900 mark. I can't remember the exact folder number for Vash but I did I search for "vash" in filenames and it comes up. I think Vrook is naturally untrustworthy of any Jedi who have a right to be unsure about. He had reasons to not trust Revan and probably even more reasons to not trust you. I would've also liked to see Atris be one of the good guys, especially with the unique artic themed robe - but no, she *had* have a crush on you and got jealous because of Handmaiden Brianna.

I've only played one game (just finished it yesterday too), Male/LS. Let me say I didn't like this anywhere near as much as KotOR I, but I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt since it was only one combo - thankyou for not letting me have high hopes of a better alternate ending cos I would've really started to feel ripped off otherwise. LS or DS, you still learn all about the True Sith (who apparently died out long ago, but Obsidian have decided to revive them), so it's fair to assume that the Nebula goes out into open and presumably eventually unknown territory. I don't think it's a good idea to expand the Star Wars universe outside the Jedi/Sith - Good/Evil thing cos that's what the movies, games (esp. KotOR I) are built on. I'm starting to get imaginations of Evil alien looking True Sith who are just evil.

That was the excuse I had to swallow when they didn't explore the consequences more of the Revan/Bastila Romance Quest. I know he's talking about the whole thing on a bigger scale but even so, the excuse of leaving a game open ended is not a risky unless you make good on the sequel. Half-Life/Valve did it well, Obsidian did not. Definitely not me. If I want "the greater evil" stuff I'll watch the Matrix thanks!

Well seeing the logo screens made me think that there were 3 Sith Lords, with Nihilus being the final boss, and from the title, info, setting, and all that, assumed that the game is about the Sith hunting you because they believe you're the last Jedi, whether you believe yourself to be one or not, and the objective for you is to find a way to destroy them. (which is to find the lost Jedi and fight the now revealed threat) OK, "simpler" might have been the wrong word to use. For like 95% (ie, a lot until Nihilus attacks) of the game follows this path and objective, so I can't see how the game would be worse off.

This is another "critism of the K2 plot" type thread, except this won't be focused on any plot holes and stuff (although it might be mentioned), which heaps of other threads are already doing. I want to discuss a hypothetical: What if KotOR 2 had a simpler plot? What if the main plot of the game was just to unite the lost Jedi Masters, and then defeat the Sith Lords. Now yes, that is pretty much what you do in the game now, except remove all that stuff on mass deaths causing force wounds (your exile just caused you to forget like Kyle Katarn), the true sith, Mandalorians forced to invade, and so on. The game for the most part would remain unchanged; you'd still have the same sidequests, and be looking for Jedi on the same planets. An off-the-top-of-my-head example for LS would be (you just found the 3rd/last Jedi Master): - meet on Dantooine - talk about the Sith threat and how the masters have revealed themselves (remember, no force wound stuff/exile stuff) - Kreia is 'formally' exposed by Master Kavar to be a Sith (I dunno, and she revelas her plan that the remaining Jedi and 2 other Sith Lords would kill each other off?) - Then you go to Telos, save the station, then get some big saber fights on the Ravager just before the bridge (you are conveniently the only one not caught up to go face the Darth guy with Visas. - Then to (say Korriban) to fight Darth Sion - Then you go off and face Kreia on Malachor. "Defeating the Sith threat" may seem like a pretty repetitive thing now, but most of KotOR is spent NOT dealing with the threat, but rather about being nice, evil and character development. Comments, other storyline suggestions, maybe somewhere inbetween?

The whole Sith thing has been developed and explored since the movies. I haven't read the books but I've played all the games, but only a few deal with the force. Movies: Jedi's are people who use the force for good, and Sith use it for evil. Jedi Knight games: Similar to the movies, except the Force is made more materialistic by saying it is energy you can move, transfer and is emitted at the Valley of the Jedi (hmm, that would've made a better story for K2 now that I mention it), but in the end, the Sith or just evil force users. (because of the timeline, they are given more freedom to invent stuff) KotOR 1: Mentions there are "True Sith" who died out long ago and that evil force users just follow their beliefs. Expands on the Dark Side energy thing (like on Dagobah), into Sith temples, Korriban, and a Dark Side object of the StarForge. KotOR 2: Turns out the True Sith are still alive (I've got a picture of weird looking aliens coming up...), and goes fully literal on Obi Wan and says that the Force holds and binds the galaxy together, and that Malachor V has damaged it. Sounds like those "holes in the fabric Space-Time" stuff you here in sci-fi. In the end, I disagree with the path K2 has taken. If Revan was conquering the Republic to strengthen it against the True Sith, then you might as well help the Emperor bring peace and order to the galaxy (ah, Tie Fighter....luv that game)

Yep, I agree it's personal taste, but when it comes deep stuff like this, leave it to the Matrix. The deepness involved in character development and relationships is fine, but when it comes to the whole storyline in general with the force being a separate entity is taking Obi Wan Kenobi "the force flows in everything" too far. All of the advantages I see in K2 are mainly gameplay/technical stuff learnt from K1 - dual weapon configs and switching, more upgrades (probably a bit too many for me), force power tweaking, animations, the Mandalorian Disintegrator, etc.

a) I was suprised to get that dialog after just talking to Visas for the first time, then talking to Kreia. It's not as if that conversation had any flirt options, especially being the first conversation b) I've only played one game but I take it you don't get the "why do you train without clothes" option as Female? c) I'm not sure who started calling it that (was it you?) but I wouldn't put it anywhere near that level d) Too bad it doesn't go anywhere - at least she can wear the dancers outfit e) Everytime I got an Ebon Hawk cutscene between two party members, it was usually showing distrust (or Bao upgrading something). 1. I can't remember that fully but I didn't seem to notice any romance related talk, again, mainly distrust. 2. How did you get that! I want it, I want it! I think the Handmaiden one is better cos you save her from the delusioned Atris - but then never hear from her again.

I would say KotOR 2 is way worse than K1. It's not a bad game, just not very suited to it. The whole Matrix plot-type expansion is not helpful. All the other things I don't like about the K2 Story are repeated through all the different posts.

I just finished my first game too - LS Male (Revan LS Male) and I was gonna post something like this, but considering how long it might've turned out like this, and how posts were everywhere talking of the ending and plot, I decided to stick to a sort of possible bugs: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=30947 I'll be honest, I didn't fully read your post - I just skim read it. Here are some points I found in my first game and things from your post: - The only person I didn't convert was Mira cos the dialog didn't go anywhere and I sucked at the influence part fo the game, so I ended up not getting a lot linkage to K1 - I found converting the two others to Jedi very....unbelievable. You're an Insta-Jedi machine. As Revan, you took weeks to get basic Jedi training (and that was with prior force knowledge/exposure). but not here. - This twists the whole KotOR series in a Matrix style way (as mentioned many) - Didn't really learn anything of Revan at all except that Bastila (or Carth) is still waiting for him/her. - More bugs than BioWare - eh, heaps more I think Obsidian tried too hard to leave their own KotOR trademark, thus the whole Matrix turn-around, or LucasArts have gone weird.

Yay, my first post on Obsidian forums! OK, I just finished my first ever K2 game. Now I was gonna post about how I found the game overall but there are already heaps of those, and yes, I found a lot of unanswered holes and stuff. My contribution to that sort of discussion is that I found the game kinda Matrix trilogy-like, where the later movies completely twist the impression from K1. Anyway, because it was my first game, I have no idea what's normal or not, especially with the newish K2 party conversation format. After I completed Dantooine as my planet ("first Master"), I went to Nar Shadaa and things just seem to unravel in my game. Some of the obvious bugs which spawned at various times were: - an un-interactive Mira clone standing out - above, Hanharr clone - T3 would move around the ship even when you told him not to (he will move around again every time you load the Ebon Hawk) And then probably more annoying were the character "issues". If these are commonly discussed bugs, give me a link or just say 'common bug'. - All my character conversations seem to reset. For instance, after getting Handmaiden to get a Jedi level, I went back to talk later and it was all the normal options like "I have an oath to Atris" (ie, pre-Jedi talk). I was convinced it was a bug when I had to get her to pull out her Handmaiden robe again, and ended up having 2 of them. - Conversations with Mandalore, Goto, Mira and Visas never changed besides from the ones where they approach you or cutscene. - Atton lost all his options after talking about playing Pazaak in his head (and didn't seem to close up talking to him) - Got Vobba to supply Telos, but Grenn (and everyone else) have nothing to say, and later during the attack say there's no new fuel source - Handmaiden was my original Vobba dancer, and when I discovered the Vobba's stash quest with the Juma juice, I went with Mira but couldn't get the "I have a dancer for you" option. I had it once only before but it was before I found out about it. - Another unfinishable quest: TSF Criminals, couldn't reach surface again. there are probably more, but in the end, I ended up missing heaps of conversation, and my low influence (cos it never seemed to be Sucess), made me lose a lot of history linkage talk, especially with Kreia, HK and T3.

I've never seen/heard of this recording. If it's Influence based then it's no suprise cos I could barely talk to anyone in my (only just finished 1st) game. However from K1 I thought she couldn't go because she was only an apprentice at the time and my interpretation was that she was never approached (or she was shielded well by her teacher). I don't think she was actually there and said "no" but rather the vision shows how Bastila was turned late in K1. As for the deal of you recognising her, well, as I said, I haven't seen the recording.