Omnicron

I did a lot of testing on this same problem yesterday and I tested a load of ideas. Seems the key is whether you have received the quest "Hunter Brother" in Hearthsong. Without the quest the encounter triggers infinite combat, but once I went to collect the quest (same character who had infinite combat) the encounter played out normally.

need your savegame please

I figured out the trigger for this. If you did not get the quest "Hunter Brother" in Hearthsong then the infinite combat will trigger. Travel back to Hearthsong and speak to the relevant NPC and the combat with the Stelgaer should end normally .

Nicely done! What did you do about the two statues in your run? I am surprised you managed a TCS with such low Con, I know a Rogue is quite squishy, or is that where Shadowing Beyond saved you?. Did Thaos ever try hit you with cleansing flame? (that would be my fear, although with enough summons you might be able to keep his attention elsewhere) What other items besides the sabers and the gloves did you use?

I made a character to try and finish the game with as few kills as possible, and I got to 23, but after thinking about some of my kills and reading some comments by MadDemiurg I managed to reduce to the count to 12, PotD difficulty solo I was encouraged to try again by some ideas I had for the factions and the problem I had of not being able to reproduce my stealth through Ciliban Rilag, so I felt a do-over would be appropriate. (see http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78862-relative-pacifist-achievement/) I enjoy this approach to games so I hope anyone else out there like me will benefit from this. Thank you Obsidian for making this approach possible Although there are a few places where the dialogue does not match up, like telling the looters in Madhmr Bridge that I killed their two guards, or telling Saeda that I killed his parents as "Honest" options when I sneaked past them Any Class can do pacifist run, but I think only a Rogue can get to 12 kills due to skills and talents and a priest will follow closely behind (waiting on MadDemiurg for his thoughts on that ) I will give a few tips of stats, items, skills, talents, and how to navigate certain areas with a rogue if anyone else wants to try it. For me the joy was figuring it out, so the guide is nicely sectioned into areas which will allow you to only read the info you want and not spoil anything you want to figure out. Without trying to spoil anything however, I would strongly suggest in investing in benevolent and aggressive dispositions for Stormwall Gorge. Overall the kills for me were 4 in the starting encampment, 5 in Heritage Hill, and 3 when fighting Thaos and his two statues. Everything else can be avoided even if some of it is a bit cheese to get below 19. Purnisc does not count as a kill, so go ahead and complete the quest related to him that way. In terms of XP, you will have enough to get to level 11 but not 12. Before jumping down the pit I had 50050 xp and just before fighting Thaos I was at 60747 xp which included disarming three traps. So there is a little over 10 000 experience down there if you want to skip a quest you can calculate if you will make it to level 11 before fighting him. (Very Important, if you are still level 10 and want the last bit of experience to level up then walk slowly towards the area which triggers the last fight, a few meters before the conversation trigger you get awarded a large lump of xp) General Tips for how to deal with encounters: Switch Auto Attacks off, your character attacking from Shadowing Beyond will make you cry, and you want to avoid your summons killing anything. Generally speaking you can Stealth though everything. Even at 9 Stealth with sugar you can do the Temple in Gilded Vale and at 10 Stealth you can do Dyrford Crossing. Engagement works in a funny way, once an enemy has selected you for an attack it has to touch you to realise you are invisible. Due to this mechanic using Shadowing Beyond can be quite tricky since you have to make sure you have allowed all enemies to disengage so that no one is following you. Also once combat ends, so will Shadowing Beyond, so sometimes you need to use a figurine to lengthen combat so that you can run the full distance while invisible. Choice of Race: Wood Elf seems to be the ideal racial choice since I basically built a ranged rogue and I have a strategy for keeping my distance from Thaos. In my first game however I played a Human because I wanted max resolve and it worked out really well, so I am guessing any Human, Aumaua, Dwarf, or Elf will do just fine I would avoid Orlan since you are getting +2 to Per which you do not want and the racial bonuses do not help you. I would also avoid the Godlikes since any of their abilities is not as useful as being able to wear headgear which grants whisper of treason. Character Statistics: Might: Fairly important to kill Thaos quickly. Fee free to max it and drop Con if you want but I was fine at about 14. Constitution: can be dumped, but I was more comfortable at 10 for when I got hit by mobs inbetween casting a figurine and activating Shadowing Beyond, but if Thaos engages you, you are dead anyway so it is really up to you. Dexterity: For quicker actions and recovery I highly recommend it. I was fine at 16, not sure about the parameters for this one and how dropping or rasing it will affect your game. Perception: Dump it, you never need this stat for engaging or avoiding combat. Intelligence: Very important for the duration of Shadowing Beyond and there is a 19 Int conversation check (which you can easy get to with +4 int rest and buffs). I was fine at 16, but you can Max it if you want. Resolve: I am happy at 18, but after looking at the checks you can get away with 16 if you are happy to rely on rest & items and even food to boost you. The hardest conversation check is 20 in Twin Elms. Equipment: Armour: Angio’s Gambeson is easy to buy in Dyrwood Villiage, and extremely helpful with the movespeed buff spellbind. It has no cast-time or cooldown so you can use this and Shadowing Beyond basically at the same time (there is also some strange behaviour which allows you to cast the buff without going visible while in Shadowing Beyond). Rings: In both playthroughs I forgot about rings, so apparently you will be fine without them. Basically you don’t need Deflection or Saves because you are avoiding combat, even in the last fight you use charm, confusion , and figurines to keep the attention off you. So anything which gives stats or useful skills is awesome. Amulet/Cloak: Glanfathan Adraswen for the lore bonus. Sadly it is random loot and I did not know this, so I have no idea where I picked it up. If you did not find this you can still get a scroll which increases your lore in the upper floor of Hadret House for the last battle (see Skills). +3 Dex cloak from Deomenals should be a fine alternative, same as the rings in reasoning, try find something which increases stats or gives utility. I did not wear anything useful and did fine in my second run. Boots: Stealth Boots which can be bought from Doemenal merchant for rogue, or there is a pair open to any class in Raedric hold dungeon in the trapped container in the room which lets you up to the captain of the guard on day 20. I only swapped these out when I got boots of Speed for the final fight. Gloves: Gloves of Mechanics for most of the game and then Rotfinger Gloves for last battle. I consistently found the Gloves of mechanics in Lord Readric’s study on day 19 on all my games, and I do not think this run is possible without them. If you want to avoid killing Nedmar for the key you will need to have 6 mechanics (which you give points to asap), a rest bonus, and some lockpicks, this allows you to get past the door in time without compromising your stealth ability for other quests. Rotfinger gloves on the other hand is great for the debuffs to allow for deathblows vs Thaos and to slow him down to keep your distance. Weapon: I used fine hunting bow for most of the game until I picked up Lenas Er. I like the debuff the weapon applies and the fact that it has rending and fires quickly Headgear: I used Munacra Arret for the Whisper of Treason which works really well against the Headsman in the last fight. Belt: Same as rings, used belts which increased my stats in both games. Talents: There is no particular order for taking these (I think this was my order?), take Fast runner and Shadowing beyond asap and you should be fine: 1. Crippling Strike: (very useful, helped me a lot even in the last fight) 2. Fast Runner (very useful all the time, helps you keep your distance from Thaos too) 3. Escape: (Very limited application since it breaks stealth and it seems to have a long recovery time, but I would still take it for a few encounters where it works really well to get on the other side of enemies, soonest application for me was in Sewers where Shadowing Beyond was not enough) 4. Shadowing Beyond (essential obviously) 5. Deep Pockets (makes the last fight possible) 6. Reckless Assault (Helps with Accuracy and damage vs Thaos, same as Weapon focus) 7. Weapon Focus Peasant (helped I am sure, still missed 50% of my shots even with this). 8. Deep Wounds (also super good in last fight, won’t say no to free damage) 9. Marksman (since I am keeping my distance it makes it easier to hit Thaos) 10. Finishing Blow ( Very useful: In combination with deathblows I got 88 damage on Thaos with this skill. I find Thaos hard to hit and the added accuracy on this skill makes it easier to finish him off. Used it twice in a row when he was badly wounded with the rotfinger debuff and killed him) 11. Deathblows: Makes the most of the Rotfinger Gloves’ debuff. Envenomed Strike looks tempting, but I really wanted to max out on my accuracy. Skills: Stealth: 9 (+Rest +Boots can take you to 12) Lore: 7 (+ Hylea Boon & Glanfathan Adraswen will give you to 10, or you can use a scroll) Mechanics: 6 (+1 from rest and +2 from Gloves of Mechanics gives you 9) Choosing a background which gives you stealth is highly favoured in my opinion: Dissident was my choice in both games. Invest in stealth and mechanics till both a 4. Raise Mechanics to 6, Invest in stealth every level until you are level 8. Then invest in Lore until you get to level 11. At level 8 I had a base of 9 Stealth, 6 Mechanics, and 3 Lore which is just enough to get though Cliaban Rilag and it is the max level you can be for this area on a pacifists run. Because of the skills a rogue starts with favours this I am unsure of whether you can avoid this fight with another class. I never found a scroll which increases my stealth, so if anyone knows of a spawn point that would really help. Cliaban Rilag is the hardest stealth area and you need 12 stealth, for everything else you need 10 stealth. It is a huge investment for those extra two points, so a scroll would really help you pass that one area and allow other classes to get through. In terms of Lore I would love to know where Glanfathan Adraswen spawns, but I used a Lore scroll for my fight with Thaos my second time around and it lasted long enough. The Lore scroll can be found in the upper levels of the Hadret house in a room the far left. It is random loot and I found mine on Day 55: 11 Preestu Mechanics suffered a bit in my second playthough, but I was fine with these numbers and a large amount of lockpicks. You absolutely need the gloves of mechanics since the situations where you need the skill are too spread out to rely on a scroll. Quests and Areas: Here is a list of the quests I did Main Quests: Encampment/Starting Area -Thank you MadDemiurg Fairly simple area but with few unexpected ways in which you can avoid kills. Loot everything and sell to Heodan before going to the wolves (feel free to strip Calista since you do not need her to fight). Calista has no stealth so do the sneaking on your own. Sneak past the wolves and gra the berries, immediately go into stealth once conversation ends and hide Calista in the corner. Stealth all the way to the water skin for her sake and once you click on it she will appear next to you at the stream for combat. You can avoid killing the first two Glanfathan by using Calista to stall them and running away. Combat will end when she is knocked out even though it does not seem like it, so you can sneak past the three Glanfathan who are mid-way. The Final 4 Glanfathan who surrounds Heodan you have to kill. I found it easy flanking and focusing the same target with two rogues. Inside the cave I disarmed some of the floor tiles for a bit of extra xp to clear the way. Send Calista ahead to engage the two spiders which block your way and run past the entrance they block into the room to your right. Either keep sending her into te spiders or send her into the traps until her portrait disappears and sneak out of the cave. Caed Nua & Maerwald (at Level 3) – Thank you knownastherat You want 4 mechanics and 4 stealth for this (think I had 5 stealth) Strategy for getting past the shades: Sneak to the door, conversation will break stealth, so summon Animat quite close to the shade approaching (it tended to tag me) close the door and run to the stairs. Combat should end once Animat is dead. Sneak Past Spiders & Rest. For Mearwald you are lucky that he gets stuck behind his blights so he is really slow. Run out of the room once combat starts and summon Animat in the door to get them to swap to engaging it. Hide yourself in the far corner by the stairs to try avoid engagement. It is tricky not to have them loose interest while also pulling the beetles or spiders to the middle of the room, but it is possible, just practice. Once Mearwald is out of his room room run past them and close the door and hide in the corner. Make sure Auto-attacks are switched off so you do not hit any of them and get the kill. Defiance Bay: The Three Factions – Thank you Kaigen42 The Dozens has an easy 1st quest which is bloodless. The Doemenals need to be joined via Ondra’s Gift. Go to the warehouse for the delivery quest. Choose the option to kill him for Danna once your delivery is complete, but instead of attacking use Shadowing Beyond and go hide. The Doemenals will clear the warehouse for you for zero kills. Now you can get information about the letter and collect the diamond without any kills. The second quest for the Doemenals is the logical choice from here, since it only involves one kill, but you can get past it for zero kills: Agree to side with either Doemenals or Dozens and then attack someone close to the door. Use Shadowing beyond and figurine for a pull and wait by the door for combat to end. You have now burned all your bridges and Lady Webb will give you the invitation you need. Sanatorium Fairly easy, this is where Angio’s Gambeson comes in. Use the +4 Int rest. Food if you want for +2Int. The trick to this area is extending combat for long enough so you can get out. I active my speed buff and rand to the side and cast a figurine and activated Shadowing beyond asap to run away. The reason for the figurine is that if you just used Shadowing beyond straight away combat would end before you are even out of the north ward, which will end Shadowing Beyond’s effect, the figurine helps you extend combat for long enough to run all the way out. While I am here I usually also do the ‘kill’ for the necromancer in the Sewers. Since you do not kill the animancer it does not count, and I pull the Witch thing to the guards or a flesh golem to kill for me. Heritage Hill Fairly easy area, just stealth well and use sugar. A few notes though: On the first level of Heritage Hill tower it is impossible to sneak past to the stairs, and once you trigger combat it will not end until you kill the enemies involved. I asked whether this infinite combat loop is intended and it seems like it is: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79710-heritage-hill-tower-level-1-infinite-combat-can-devs-please-respond-whether-this-is-intentional/ When coming down from level 3, the conversation will break stealth for the transition, so go down one level in order to avoid the infitie combat drawing more enemies on level 1. You will attract a mob, but use a stealth boost and Shaowing beyond and cancel engagements as needed. Can be tricky, but very do-able. Then Stealth down to level one. In order to get the Adra Beetle you need to get the key. Go into the manor and you do not need to stealth. Trigger combat and summon shades or Wood Beetles close to the door on the left which contains the key, and use the summons to pull them to the exit. Be careful to keep them all engaged. Use escape to jump over if needed and you will probably need Shadowing Beyond to get to the key. Combat will end with them all still near the exit, which is just enough time for you to grab the key before they get back, and you can use your 2nd Shadowing Beyond to exit. Once the tower is deactivated the way to the crypt will be clear. Cliaban Rilag Very simple, you can sneak past quite a lot and use Shadowing Beyond to get to the room with the sporelings. You might need a figurine to extend combat (see Sanatorium) and make sure the ooze does not perma-aggro by not disengaging him. To get through the rest you will need Mechanics: 8 = 6 + 2 (Gloves of Mechanics) and bring a lot of lockpicks. Stealth: 12: 9 + 2 (Boots) + 1 (Resting Bonus) The stealth will get you through the sporelings with some sugar, and the 8 mechanics with some lockpicks will get you through the 2nd level. To have this balance of skills by level 8 I think you need to play Rogue since there is no more xp to level up to 9 (see skills) Stormwall Gorge (Ambush) - Thank you Xaratas If you have 2 Aggressive and 2 Benevolent and a Dungeon in your Stronghold you can avoid this fight Pleasing the Gods I want Hylea’s Boon for the Lore and it is super easy to go and talk to the Sky Dragon and tell her she may have her young there. I also highly recommend Rymrgand. Pray to him to get the shard. Sneak into NoonFrost (mechanics rest bonus for 9 total if you want to save lockpics and disarm the traps) and stick to the left and it is super easy to reach the breach without detection. Give them the shard so that they all leave. Now you can rescue the prisoner and loot the place. If you have 19 Intelligence you can convince Rymrgand that it was a good idea and you get loads of quest xp. Down the Pit (the final Dungeon) The first area is full of traps so you will need a few tries to figure out a safe route. Go left and engage the Spectre with a figurine. Shadow Beyond and run with Speed buff. You want to go through the door by the spectre on the left and then turn right avoiding the trap and then turn right again past the animats. You might need 2 Shadowing Beyonds if you were not lucky enough to get boots of speed before this. Feel free to rest there are plenty of camping supplies and you need minimal resources for the next area. In Sun and Shadow you should find a pair of boots of speed. Very simple to get through, you can simply escape with Shadowing Beyond for the first Drake, and for the 2nd one I use shades to pull the mob down the stairs opposite the door. Getting them to the bottom of that staircase is enough time to go through the door. Defeating Thaos Equip 5x Confusion Scrolls, 10x Maelstrom Scrolls, 1x Adra Beetle, 1x Obsidian Lamp, 5x War Paint (or more scrolls). Wait for the Judge to get pulled towards you a bit. Shadowing Beyond to escape. Summon Adra Beetle. Hit The Headsman with Whisper of Treason. Join battle with scrolls and send beetle in for his AoE. Keep your Beetle between you & Thaos and keep an eye on the charm/confusion durations. I basically used MadDemiurg’s video as a guide as to how to fight him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIDjoea4aHY Other Areas: Lighthouse – Thanks to knownastherat You can do this at level 4 and you do not really need to sneak. To go up is fairly easy, stick to the wall on the left for minimal aggro, use Shadowing beyond the moment combat starts. Through the door and close it behind you. Getting out is far more tricky. I like to use stealth so I have some time to position myself before combat, and the way the enemies behave differs a lot between attempts. You might be able to use escape, but take note that there is a bug with the door which appears open but it is actually closed. You need to summon something, I used Wood Beetles, in order to hold enemy aggro while you position yourself at the exit with Shadowing Beyond. Combat will end with them killing the bettles at the staircase giving you enough time to get out. Dyrford Crossing & Skaen Temple You can stealth to get the egg, and you need 10 stealth + sugar to do the troll (use resting bonus if needed) For Skaen Temple, you can open the way quite easily with enough stealth, but will need to use Shadowing Beyond to escape the encounter and sneak back to get down. I recommend getting a rest to boost mechanics to 9 with gloves with a base of 6 and bring like 18 lockpicks. Fairly easy to get through, you cannot sneak past all of the guards, so in the room just before the leader you will need to use Shadowing Beyond to get into the door. After the conversation they all go friendly and you can loot the place. Northweald Fairly easy area with two quests you can do. Dungeon helps you here once again with resolving the stalemate. Very Importantly, the Stealgar by the body in the north will lock you into infinite combat if you did not receive the quest “Hunter Brother” from Hearthsong. I tested this extensively, and it is very important to get the quest before coming here to avoid kills. I lied in the hearing for the bow. Endless Paths Seems a bit silly to do this, but I was curious: It would appear that if you have Boots of Speed and 12 Stealth and some scrolls, that you can complete the endless paths on a pacifist run without worrying about your kill count, only 18 in total, 19 if you kill the Dragon Hunter. It is worth noting that you can get though 10 of the levels without shadowing beyond or combat, just good stealth and speed Not much in it in terms of items so it would be a bit pointless. I did not explore how accessible various treasures are but you will get the dragon's stash at least. 50865xp before I started, 64467xp after helping the dragon, so about 14 000 xp in the run. Here are my findings for the Endless Paths: Levels: 1: 0 kills 2: 0 Kills 3: 0 Kills 4: 0 Kills 5: 1 Kill (Drake) 6: 2 Kills (2 Dargul in room across the bridge) 7: 0 Kills 8: 0 Kills 9: 0 Kills 10: 0 Kills (12 Stealth, boots of speed and sugar, and understanding transitions is key) 11: 0 Kills 12: 0 Kills 13: 15 Kills ( So much fun! Cleared a room solo on level 11 PotD which I struggled with as a Party on Hard ) 14: 0 Kills (Resolve 20 and Int 17 Needed) 15: 0 Kills (Easy sneak and made a deal with the Dragon) Getting from level 3-8 is definitively the hardest because of all the resources those levels need to get though, and you cannot use the main staircase on level 5. Levels you can bypass without Shadowing beyond, but up to 12 stealth, sugar, and boots of speed: 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 Some you needs less stealth, or as the case is in level 12 no stealth. Quite simple. Levle 8: you will aggro the Vampyr on the throne when you go down, but just give them a summon and run away. Don't even need SB. Level 9: Got though the spiky room, and use sugar, fast boots and 12 speed. For getting past the Vithrack and the Spiders you need to get as close to the petrify trap as possible to disarm it halfway and and stick to the bottom wall of the passage. Level 10. Same as 9 sugar et al. Shades in the 1st room wont detect you. The stairs are blocked by spiders but you can transition down without touching them. You just need to remember that you character takes a few steps while thhe screen fades to black so you need to give him/her the room to do that so you do not start combat. Level 11 is another master staircase I needed a mechanics scroll to get through. I know there is a spawn point for one in Doemenal Mansion on the second floor in the room right by the staircase. Levels you need Shadowing Beyond and a figurine pull. 4, 7 Level 4 is a pain, and you need to get the seal in the room to the South. You probably will need escape, 2-3 Shadowing Beyonds, and a lot of figurines to pull, and any speed boosts you can make use of. Also helpful to boost Int. Level 7 you can de-activate every shrine and get the key, mostly just with stealth and fast boots. Earth blight room you need to use a figurine or a SB , and you cannot do the Rain Blight Room, which is fine because of SB down the the next level anyway and the spawn is not a problem. Levels that need combat: 5, 6, 13 Level 5 is pretty easy. do not wear boots of speed and then you can pull the drake away from the Xaruips into the little room next to the pool. You need to kill him for combat to end. Level 6 is a pain as well, you can get the seal on the left by hugging the wall once you are in the room. The seal on the other side of the bridge I also doubt is possible with a full sneak, but observed that only 2 Dargul are in visual range of the one corner. Killed them and used SB to escape combat and sneaked back in. To go down you will need SB since putting the seals in the door breaks stealth (11 stealth needed) Level 13 is pretty Straightforward. Killing animats in the room the the right is easy enough and then the ghost appears. Then using a figurine to extend combat and running to the room with all the Cean Gwla, cast confusion from stealth, use Adra Beetle and maelstrom. Spirit 2 appears. SB back to main door and make sure you have boots of speed and sugar and 12 stealth to go down to 14.

Can Admin Delete? Somehow I double posted? (Browser crash) See this one http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79761-12-kill-run-class-build-and-guide/

I had a look at the savegame. Seem to be a clear bug. The Quest "The Man who waits" simply is not in your journal even though it should be. I could still complete the quest by killing the guards and taking the key and then killing Azo and taking his key, and then I went to see the patients and ban "quest completed: The man who waits" and it suddenly appeared in your journal.

Thank you. I will consider the question answered then It is fairly unique behavior for an area. No other area except the last boss does this, I mean not even the 2nd level of the tower locks you into infinite combat. So I find it a bit strange, but ok Also @ Aea, I cannot tell you how many times combat has ended for me while enemies are in sight. It can be rather annoying because Shadowing beyond ends when you are no longer in combat. Combat also ended randomly with enemies still being in sight with charm dynamics when going solo cipher, basically you can see them fighting but since nothing is engaging you combat ends, and so does the charm, restarting combat, this will also happen when you pull mobs into one another and the encounter will end for you but they will keep fighting even if you stay in visual range. The rules for when combat ends seems to differ on a per-encounter bases. Anything from what I described here, to your situation, to the 1st level of the tower.

Ok I did it with the char stats I posted in OP Pike FTW !!! Had one caravaner block the choke point and killed Odema and his boys without them being able to reach me and the damage from the caravaner was pathetic. Did not even use lay on hands (Not a solo run)

So dump Int? What must I swap for Per? Thanks

Yeah I am using that chokepoint thanks Wondering if only certain classes can do this though. Paladin seems a bit insane.

Trying to kill the Caravan as a Bleak Walker on PotD and failing hard. I manage to kill Heodan and 1 Caravan Guard, but that seems to be my limit. I use Calista to pull the wolves to Heodan (Which also gets rid of Sparfel). This takes care of Calista and puts Heodan on Injured Kill one of the horses, which pulls the caravan to you. Like I said I managed to kill one Caravan Guard and Heodan while getting critically injured. Used two potions and lay on hands. Might: 18 Con:19 Dex: 10 Per:3 Int: 12 Res: 16 Trying Scale and Chain armor, hardest thing is weapon choice. Odema's health regen is insane. How did these guys get slaughtered? O_o

Well in that case thank you It just sounded like a case of sarcasm which undermined my post (like just kill them, it does not matter), Now I understand that you were pointing out that the lack of context was meant that "just kill them" would be a valid reply. (Main topic edited in response) As an FYI in 1.05 this is the only case of infinite combat I have encountered. There was one in Northweald in 1.04, but either the trigger has changed or it was fixed.

Whats with the attitude? I never said I am stuck, I never said I cannot progress, I already completed the Record Pacifist run with these kills included. I was quite detailed about the fact that I can kill them. I am just testing the game design and what it allows for and this particular floor seems inconsistent with the rest of the game. I did not ask for a fix, I was just curious whether this is a bug or is intentional. I really respect all your test posts and I find them very insightful, but don't know why you felt the need to respond like that. Edit: While I did ask whether they plan to fix it it was a question of curiosity about whether they consider it a problem, I am not complaining and I am not demanding a fix because I cannot play the game the way it was meant to be played, it clearly is not an issue for whatever approach you choose to take. I was confused by the inconsistency and wondered about obsidian's opinion, that is all. I regard the irregularities in your test results far more pressing and have been confused why they have not been acknowledged. Thanks! I did a quick test to see and I doubt this is the case. I ran back to the door which lets you out of the tower which is far enough from any encounter, I mean it is further away than I need to be on the second level if I trigger combat coming down.

Hi! I am trying to kill as few enemies as possible and I found one are which does not allow you to exit combat (the only are I am aware of after a full run of the game with a stealth approach) Here is my savegame and a number of screenshots to clearly explain the issue. Even if there is no fix for the problem I just want to know the following: Is this intended? If yes: Why? If No: Is there a plan to fix it at a later date that is all I want to know I do not feel it is urgent or unfair, but it seem inconsistent with the behavior of other areas where my tactic to escape the encounter would work: Here is the problem and how to reproduce it: This is the position of the enemies before combat Summon Animat to distract: Run to space which is safe from enemy aggro using Shadowing Beyond Now once the animat dies you can wait there for an hour if you like, combat will not end until you kill all 5 of them. I have tried various combinations and it only clears when all 5 are dead. They do not run after you, you can sit there quite safely. I went back to have a look with Shadowing Beyond and they are in their default positions: Can someone please indicate whether this behavior is intentional or whether it is considered a problem? Thank you! Here is the savegame: https://www.sendspace.com/file/400pez

Ok I just did a run of Cliban Rilag with my new Char. I was not happy that I was unable to reproduce my previous success where I had 11 Stealth Total, so did not consider it legit. It is a stationary plant that detects you, had exact same results with no sporelings on the right side and was detected before I made it through. On the rerun it was easy with 12 stealth & sugar (all three sporeling on right) and so I will stick to that and drop a point off mechanics (MOAR lockpicks are needed) Current stats at Beginning of 8th Level: 4 Kills Mechanics: 8 = 6 + 2 (Gloves of Mechanics) Lore: 3 Stealth: 12: 9 + 2 (Boots) + 1 (Resting Bonus) Since the door needs 8 mechanics + 8 lockpicks and the sneaking past the plants needs 12 stealth, I do not know if you can avoid combat with other classes just due to the skills needed and the possible level you are here. It is easily solved by some skill enhancing scrolls, but I did not find any of those except as random loot :/ (Some confirmed locations for random spawns: Mechanics increase scroll on 2nd level of Doemenel 1st room in front of you, Lore increase scroll in Hadret House 2nd level room to far left, & Athletics scroll next to Lady Webb's bed) You can safely swim out to the exit, much easier to sneak past the one mob as opposed to the 4 mobs you would have to do if you backtrack

Especially when you look at the end slides how it talks about how after the riots people were afraid to even leave their homes. I was like ummm... looked pretty chilled to me.

Hmmm... In that case the charmed creature has a good chance of dying which awards you the kill. In the cases where that is a viable strategy I have found that you are also likely to be able to sneak past with enough skill. Also, every character can use this strategy by using figurines without worrying about adding to their kill count. It will certainly help, but I do not see it working better than figurines, and I do not see how you are going to get out of some of the more tricky situations with that strategy. It will work ok, but there will be certain quests you will either have to avoid or choose to fight. I mean you will get pacifist easily, even less than 100 kills. Because you honestly can just sneak past most stuff and avoid entering combat altogether. Every class can do that since their specific talents do not come into play, only stealth skill. So play any class you would enjoy, have fun, and test and adapt tactics, but be aware that you will have to kill a few more than me PS. also bear in mind that you cannot charm and dominate from stealth, you can only confuse (tenacious grasp)

Yes, but I played solo Cipher though, and if say you are fighting one creature and you charm it, then combat ends and so does the charm effect, putting you back in combat. You see this very clearly when Thaos dominates you and you run solo, the effect ends almost immediately if you do not have summons up. Edit: If I remember correctly however confusion persist when combat ends. So effects that can be used out of combat persist when combat ends, and effects like charm and dominate which can only be cast in combat do not persist when combat ends. So Tenacious Grasp might be your best friend in a Cipher run

There is no reason to drop might. A Pacifist character needs to be able to do two things: 1. Take talent, skills (Stealth & Mechanics) and attributes (Resolve & Int) which will help avoid or exit combat, 2. Take talents, skills (Lore) and attributes (Might) which will help you kill Thaos. If you dump Con and Might, you might have a hard time vs Thaos. Also I am not sure how much combat you want to avoid, but I do not think Cipher has too many abilities for exiting combat, which is why Priest and Rogue are favored for a minimum run, and also why you will need attributes and talents for combat even more. There is a lot you can sneak past, like really maybe 80% of stuff, but sometimes I need Shadowing Beyond in order to get out alive without creatures following me to the exit and killing me (Sanitarium, Skaen Cultist Lair, Lighthouse, and Ciliban Ring are good examples where you cannot rely on stealth). In those cases you will have to fight them or charm them for long enough to send them away (High Int needed if this is even viable) You will see that I rerolled the character in my OP. I dumped Perception, it does not help you at all in avoiding combat. Most conversation checks are Resolve and there are a few things High Int can give you, but I take it for SB duration mostly. The rest went to might and Dex Broadly Speaking for a pacifist run you need: Might: 14 (but can be more) Con: 10 is ok (but can be more, or if you feel like a pro less ) Dex: Around 16 Int: 13-16 (highest Int check is 19, so +2 Int Item and Brackenbury +4 Int rest will get you there from 13, but Int is super good for duration of abilities you are using to exit combat like Shadowing Beyond or Withdraw so would go High) Per: 3 Resolve: At least 18 (I guess 16 will do with resting bonus and Item to get to 20 for some checks) So play within those margins if you want a good run

Ummm.. did you just stop play there or did you keep going to see that you are able to return to Defiance Bay with all your choices in tact?

Is this for a solo Run or for a party? I did a solo PoTD run with a Wizard and I never needed to buy weapons, the ones you can summon are rather strong Generally you want high Might, Int and Con, and you can dump Res and Per thanks to Hardened Veil (would suggest that as 1st two talents)

soooo.. the chapel sells 2-4 scrolls which one can easily craft? Seems really dumb, was hoping for some unique ones at least which you cannot craft. I a seriously looking for a rite of walking shadows scroll, but it only seems to exist as random loot?

Just did a re-run of Act I: Only 4 kills, as opposed to 10 last time. For the two bandits in the first fight by the steam, use Calista to stall them and run away. Combat ends when she get knocked out (even though the music continues) so you can sneak past the three bandits mid-way and then take out the final 4 with Heodan. And those 4 are the only kills you need for the Act. Fed Calista to the Spiders and then ran though the traps for a quicker death. Did not kill Nedmar, since there is enough loot if you sell dissapointer and Guan's Pledge to Heodan Then managed to kill Maerwald without being awarded the kill. All you need to do is make sure Auto-attacks are switched off and then your figurine wont accidentally hit him. It is a bit tricky since I was only level 3 without doing part of "Lord of a Barren Land" (Nedmar Kill needed) but manged just fine without Shadowing Beyond. If I do the rest of my run the same and skip the kills on Burial Isle I should be able to finish with 13 kills. The only Kills you need for plot progression and for which you cannot use pulled enemies al la Mearwald are: 4 Bandits in the Encampment 1 Marshall Wenfield 1 Thaos and his 2 Statues. and then the 5 undead which trigger infinite combat in Heritage Hill tower which you cannot sneak past and thus prevent you from going up even though they are not aggro... I do not know if obsidian reads this, but would love to hear whether the infinite combat sequence in the 1st level of Heritage Hill Tower is intended or not? I see no reason for it and would save 5 more kills (if I am trying to do absolute minimum) PS. Just thought of a valid reason to kill Nedmar, not for story, but I have no idea where else I can get Gloves of Mechanics for less kills Instead of killing Nedmar for the key you need 7 or 8 mechanics will get you though the door (I had as much without the gloves in my previous game), you can get it up to 7 and then rest for the 8th or use lockpicks and you are good to go to get the gloves (consistently getting them on Day 19, had to use lockpicks +rest with base 6 mechanics so I could go on the correct day). Just found boots of stealth (any class) on day 20. Raedric Hold dungeon, trapped container by the ladder that goes up to the captain of the guards.

There is an infinite combat bug on that map which sometimes triggers. I think you have to clear all the Staelgar for it to go away, but happened on a solo play-though so never confirmed if this will solve the problem.