Some updates re: feedback

[Nathaniel Chapman]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to make a post to let you all know that we're reading everything (yes, even Matt-C's posts) that's being posted and we're working to fix some of the issues that people have brought up for the retail release of the game. Here's some things we're working on now:

 

 

First, with regards to the PC Version:

• We're looking at making it so that A and D rotate the camera in the same direction regardless of whether you walk forwards or backwards.
  
• We're looking at defaulting the Camera Auto-Orient option off, since many players report that this is frustrating. It will still remain as an option in the menu for those of you who like it.
  
• We've fixed a few startup crashes that happen to people running the game while running windows in specific other locales (Czech, Ukrainian, etc.) not specifically supported by localizations of the game. This fix has already gone out for the demo and will be included in the release version.
  
• We're working with AMD on an issue reported here that causes graphical issues when forcing AA on via the Catalyst Control Center on AMD cards. A temporary workaround is to use Application Settings for AA rather than overriding them.
  

 

 

We're also considering some other, larger control improvements for the PC version, but I don't have an ETA on them yet.

 

Second - as Jean-Eric posted in one of the threads on the game, we've identified and fixed a last-minute bug that was causing our textures to appear blurred out. This should dramatically improve the visual quality of the released game.

 

Third, there are some structural and plot criticisms related to the demo that aren't as much an issue with the "real" game, so I wanted to highlight some differences between the demo and the full game:

• In the demo, many of the sidequests were removed from Raven's Rill as compared with the full game. This is partly what contributes to the sense that the game is ultra-linear. This is specifically related to the demo, obviously. Note that this is in addition to the things that actually *say* they were removed from the demo.
  
• The demo levels your character up higher than normal to show you more abilities, which has the side effect of making combat *really* easy.
  
• The story is substantially more complex than what you're lead to believe from the demo. You learn more about the complexities of character's motivations later in the game, and while the story does begin with a relatively simple, uncomplicated goal (stop JEYNE KASSYNDER!) there's a lot more complexity revealed later. So I wouldn't really judge the story of the entire game from what you see in the demo.
  

 

Thanks for your feedback, positive or otherwise, and we're listening and fixing what we can. We hope you guys enjoy the game when it comes out (soon, now!)

 

Edit (6/16): We're planning on adding Keybinding support in a patch, due soon. See page 2 for full post.

[C2B]

Thanks for the update . Will this be a Day 0 patch? (At least for the american version?)

Edited June 15, 2011 by C2B

[rafoca]

I will play on my xbox, but it is great to see a dev showing up anyway

 

Thanks!

[Oner]

Awesome, thanks for the heads-up.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Nice to know that you're listening to the feedback, it's good to know that the team is not ignoring the reception (which is something that I confess I feared, seeing your reaction to the demo's comments here).

 

That said.. well, I'll go quote for quote:

 

We're looking at making it so that A and D rotate the camera in the same direction regardless of whether you walk forwards or backwards.

 

That's.. hardly what most people want, to be honest. Sure, it's better than the setup we have now, but it's suboptimal compared to a real WASD setup. Guess it's better than nothing, tho'.

 

We're looking at defaulting the Camera Auto-Orient option off, since many players report that this is frustrating. It will still remain as an option in the menu for those of you who like it.

 

Good. Not sure what the option does, to be honest.

 

We've fixed a few startup crashes that happen to people running the game while running windows in specific other locales (Czech, Ukrainian, etc.) not specifically supported by localizations of the game. This fix has already gone out for the demo and will be included in the release version.

 

That's good. Brings me to another point: will we see other fixes on the demo after the game is out? Seems like a silly thing to ask, but changes to the control scheme can dramatically change the feel of the gameplay, and the demo would give a very different (and worse) impression compared to the game, turning off people that otherwise would be interested.

 

We're also considering some other, larger control improvements for the PC version, but I don't have an ETA on them yet.

 

That's nice to hear. The game, as of now, plays like a sloppy port, so I'm really hopeful that the team can sneak in a better control scheme in a patch.

 

Second - as Jean-Eric posted in one of the threads on the game, we've identified and fixed a last-minute bug that was causing our textures to appear blurred out. This should dramatically improve the visual quality of the released game.

 

That's good to hear. Wasn't the bug AA related, though? I don't remember there being any difference in the textures with AA on or off, so I assume that I wasn't affected by this bug, at least in the demo.

 

In the demo, many of the sidequests were removed from Raven's Rill as compared with the full game. This is partly what contributes to the sense that the game is ultra-linear. This is specifically related to the demo, obviously. Note that this is in addition to the things that actually *say* they were removed from the demo.

 

The demo levels your character up higher than normal to show you more abilities, which has the side effect of making combat *really* easy.

 

This begs the question of what was the rationale behind these choices when you guys were putting the demo together though. ^^'

 

The story is substantially more complex than what you're lead to believe from the demo. You learn more about the complexities of character's motivations later in the game, and while the story does begin with a relatively simple, uncomplicated goal (stop JEYNE KASSYNDER!) there's a lot more complexity revealed later. So I wouldn't really judge the story of the entire game from what you see in the demo.

 

I'm interested in this though, because, in my humble opinion, the beginning of the game is really bland and generic, lore-wise (yup, I read the entries), story-wise and dialogue-wise. Was it intentional? Did you set it up so that hack'n'slash fans could easily skip the story?

 

Thanks for your feedback, positive or otherwise, and we're listening and fixing what we can. We hope you guys enjoy the game when it comes out (soon, now!)

 

Thank you for enduring my obnoxiousness. Au revoir!

Edited June 15, 2011 by WorstUsernameEver

[brandysnap]

with regards to the pc version.

 

-AA doesnt seem to be working at all for ATI cards, whether i set to application controlled or not, as ive mentioned in the thread linked below -

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=57635

 

-when you mention 'blurred textures' are you referring to the pc demo, or the console demo?

does this 'blurred textures' issue explain why setting low/medium/high texture quality in the pc demo does nothing at all?

 

ps. while youre at it, get someone to remove the horrible sunlight/bloom shader that causes wobbling on the top 3rd of the screen. as noticed and documented in this thread linked below -

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=57684

[C2B]

I'm interested in this though, because, in my humble opinion, the beginning of the game is really bland and generic, lore-wise (yup, I read the entries), story-wise and dialogue-wise. Was it intentional? Did you set it up so that hack'n'slash fans could easily skip the story?

 

I brought this up with you before but which Obsidian game isn't? Nearly all of them have their slow starts when they are setting the story/charachters up. This doesn't mean its bland and generic in the slightest.

Edited June 15, 2011 by C2B

[WorstUsernameEver]

I brought this up with you before but which Obsidian game isn't?

 

I'd argue that every single game after Neverwinter Nights 2 had a more interesting story hook and presented its initial area/situation better, even the blander ones (Storm of Zehir and Alpha Protocol come to mind).

 

Mask of the Betrayer was a slog gameplay-wise, but had a fantastically realized beginning, you immediately knew the tone of the story. You could argue that it benefited from being an expansion, but in my opinion it would have worked well stand-alone too. New Vegas sets you up with an attempted murder, presents you with hints of something more to come (Victor), you can skip the tutorial area if you don't want to do it, etc. Alpha Protocol admittedly is pretty weak too, although it has got the framed narrative up its sleeves. It also has much, much fresher dialogue compared to JEYNE KASSYNDER (rinse and repeat), though luckily, from what I've seen the game gets better on that regard later.

[C2B]

I brought this up with you before but which Obsidian game isn't?

 

I'd argue that every single game after Neverwinter Nights 2 had a more interesting story hook and presented its initial area/situation better, even the blander ones (Storm of Zehir and Alpha Protocol come to mind).

 

Mask of the Betrayer was a slog gameplay-wise, but had a fantastically realized beginning, you immediately knew the tone of the story. You could argue that it benefited from being an expansion, but in my opinion it would have worked well stand-alone too. New Vegas sets you up with an attempted murder, presents you with hints of something more to come (Victor), you can skip the tutorial area if you don't want to do it, etc. Alpha Protocol admittedly is pretty weak too, although it has got the framed narrative up its sleeves. It also has much, much fresher dialogue compared to JEYNE KASSYNDER (rinse and repeat), though luckily, from what I've seen the game gets better on that regard later.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2011 by C2B

[zlarm]

I haven't played the demo but I'm glad you're looking into improving the controls for the pc. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile now (mainly because you guys are making it) and I was very dissapointed to find out that even though the game is good it suffers on the pc because it's well a console port. Anyways hopefully you clear up the control issues on the pc and thanks for letting us know that you're working on it.

[Alpha]

please fix the zoom of the camera on consoles too. Good to know our post are taking in count. Good decision Devs.

[Matt-C]

Thank you for reading my posts Nathaniel =) I have just got the game so will be posting some feedback in the near future!

[Humodour]

EXCELLENT TO HEAR!

 

Thanks Obsidian.

[Monokli]

the problem was not camera zoom. it was tilt: ds2 let you 45degrees and mobs did not rush you like crazy

[Lycidas]

Thank you for reading my posts Nathaniel =) I have just got the game so will be posting some feedback in the near future!

Wow I honestly thought if you would ever get the game it would be just to burn it...

 

@OT

 

The changes to A and D might help a bit I would habe preferred to use the mouse for camera control though.

[deejayqf]

• We're looking at making it so that A and D rotate the camera in the same direction regardless of whether you walk forwards or backwards.
  

 

We're also considering some other, larger control improvements for the PC version, but I don't have an ETA on them yet.

 

Nathaniel,

 

Why would you simply limit the change to change how A and D behave?? I don't want those keys to control the camera AT ALL.

 

I'm not asking for you to reinvent the wheel, I'm simply asking for mappable keys like every other game the last 10 years for PC has had, not a predefined control scheme that I may / may not like. I feel sorry for left handers and players of traditional PC hack and slash games. Personally I hate the controls atm to the point I just don't enjoy the game.

 

Also can you explain this please

 

http://www.vg247.com/2011/02/08/obsidian-t...ability-issues/

 

Specifically -

 

The Obsidian staffer told Eurogamer that the PC version of Dungeon Siege III will not be a straight-up console port.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2011 by deejayqf

[C2B]

That interview was a while ago. Things can come in between or change during such a time. Nathaniel posted also about a different control sheme just 2 months ago but that got probably scrapped at the last minute (for whatever reason) which leaves us with the current (older?) control sheme.

 

At the moment the best he can do is make the current sheme better. Thats also why he added that there will be bigger changes in the future.

Edited June 16, 2011 by C2B

[deejayqf]

That interview was a while ago. Things can come in between or change during such a time. Nathaniel posted also about a different control sheme just 2 months ago but that got probably scrapped at the last minute (for whatever reason) which leaves us with the current (older?) control sheme.

 

At the moment the best he can do is make the current sheme better. Thats also why he added that there will be bigger changes in the future.

 

 

I guess I'm just shocked at the fact that something like mappable keys - the ability for me to choose how I control the character and camera, has to be patched in (if it is even on that list of possible improvements). It begs the question how it occured in the first place. I know we will most likely never find out the answer but it's a question I can't help ask as a consumer and someone who works in the digital media / web development industry.

[Sabotin]

Perhaps it had a fairly low priority due to being a platform specific thing.

 

Anyway I'm glad they're taking such things into consideration at least. I think a possible fixed camera alone might go a long way. The movement/camera inversion on the pc takes some time getting used to, but it's actually not bad once you get the hang of it, except the need to keep it straight during a fight, with fingers you're supposed to use for skills. The 2nd demo runthrough I had much more fun.

 

A thing that bothers me a bit, but I haven't seen anyone complaining about it: sometimes mobs kinda meld with the background or you can't see them due to bright vfx. An option to have some kind of marker (maybe thin circles undeir their feet) on them would be great.

[Tigranes]

Nathaniel's bullet points specify the things that they are definitely changing. And then there will be a bunch of things they are looking at changing, but don't want to say yet becuase they're not sure if it'll happen 100%.

 

I'd hope key remapping makes it in the first patch or so, I don't mind but it would solve problems for a lot of people.

[DaemonDarque]

I really liked the demo a lot and have played it through fully three times. The two things I would like to address is the camera (not the A and D keys). I would like to see a better angle. When, for example, being close to the character, I can only move the camera up so far to see what's in front of me. Zooming out is a bit better, but adding that extra angle for up and down would be very nice.

 

Secondly, the length of the health bubbles. I'm sure someone's mentioned this before, but if actual health potions aren't used and health bubble drops are instead, they need to have a greater length time on the battlefield. I can't count the number of times one has dropped after I killed an enemy, but when the battle was done, I was so close to getting that bubble only for it to disappear before I got there.

[brandysnap]

I really liked the demo a lot and have played it through fully three times. The two things I would like to address is the camera (not the A and D keys). I would like to see a better angle. When, for example, being close to the character, I can only move the camera up so far to see what's in front of me. Zooming out is a bit better, but adding that extra angle for up and down would be very nice.

 

Secondly, the length of the health bubbles. I'm sure someone's mentioned this before, but if actual health potions aren't used and health bubble drops are instead, they need to have a greater length time on the battlefield. I can't count the number of times one has dropped after I killed an enemy, but when the battle was done, I was so close to getting that bubble only for it to disappear before I got there.

 

the reason you cannot zoom in further or at a better angle is because the game engine doesnt draw the sky. if you tilted the camera up like you want to, they would have to draw the sky in.

 

i also want health bubbles to stay longer.

and i also want health bubbles to be collected when you roll - at the moment rolling doesnt pick up bubbles.

[Jean-Eric Khalife]

the reason you cannot zoom in further or at a better angle is because the game engine doesnt draw the sky. if you tilted the camera up like you want to, they would have to draw the sky in.

 

i also want health bubbles to stay longer.

and i also want health bubbles to be collected when you roll - at the moment rolling doesnt pick up bubbles.

 

You're close

 

The engine can definitely draw skies if we included skyboxes in the areas, when you get to the causeways you'll see what I'm taking about, but we usually don't include skyboxes in areas that don't need it. Tilting the camera further would have an impact on performance, gameplay and art since the whole game was designed around the current camera angle. We have a debug camera here that allows us to tilt it further and it doesn't look or feel right, so I wouldn't recommend it.

[MakeMOTB2pls]

So your new engine is only good for tight corridor maps and has performance issues when it shows more than a few meters of ground around your feet?

 

You know I was hoping you'd use this engine for your own future IPs or, you know, MOTB 2, but this really doesn't bode well...

[Nathaniel Chapman]

Hi Everyone,

 

I wanted to announce one of those "bigger features that we didn't have an ETA on".

 

Soon, we'll be releasing a patch which adds keybinding to the PC version of the game. We want to make sure we don't introduce any bugs, which is why we don't release it immediately, but it shouldn't be long now.

 

Again, there are still more updates/improvements we're looking at for the PC version, but I wanted to give you all a heads up that this is one of the big ones since it's something that you all have been asking about.

 

Thanks!